Christianity or Islam?

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Again, that’s not a sufficient or reasonable explanation. But that’s beyond this particular thread.
 
Michail24 said:
So could any of you mad historians and scientists help me out here with my big question of Jesus or Allah?
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They could both be wrong, or one right -or more right than the other at least. I found the Quran to be quite uninspiring, but that was just me and at a time when I entertained many different religions as being possibly valid and had no dog in the fight in any case.

What grabbed me about Christianity was 1) I just plain heard/recognized the Shepard’s voice in the bible. And, 2) properly understood Christianity is all about pure love, about love and goodness being foundational to the universe. I just can’t turn away from this counter-intuitive God who would lower Himself to our level and actually experience an excruciatingly humiliating and painful passion and death in human flesh if that’s what it takes to prove that love-because of and in spite of our sin. That’s a real hero, that’s the God Jesus came to reveal, not at all aloof and distant in His superiority and power but a God intensely offended by evil while yet so intensely in love with His creation that He would face that evil Himself, while still allowing us the freedom to remain in darkness-if we will. But He attempts to patiently draw and attract us to the light with the Cross, rather than force us to embrace it even if ultimately evil will no longer be allowed to prevail. He just wants us to choose.

Anyway, read 1 Cor 13:4-8 if you want to begin to get an idea about the nature of God. It’s quite a revelation to understand this God whom Jesus came to make known, knowledge intended, as I see it, to overcome the default opinion humanity has of God. Paragraph 399 of the catechism tells us that as a consequence of their own sin Adam & Eve had “become afraid of the God of whom they have conceived a distorted image”. We’re here to learn to overcome that distortion by coming to truly know God because to know Him is to love Him-and that’s how the Greatest Commandment becomes fulfilled. Love “casts out fear”, as 1 John 4:18 puts it. It overcomes our fear. I appreciate John 17:3 here too:

"Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent."
 
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A skeptical agnostic doesn’t have to play mediator. I think your explanation of the New Testament is unreasonable and requires poor inferences, which is different than lacking faith; but that’s not the focus here. However, Islam does rely on some sort of “the gospel was corrupted” conspiracy, but then doesn’t justify it, simply asserts it. In any case, Christianity is either true, or they are probably both false.
 
Whoa! All I did was post Islam’s most trusted sources for all to see. Yeah, it is an eyesore but it is the truth. In case anyone is wondering why child marriages are so common in the islamic world. they are following the example of their "prophet of god"

Narrated Hisham’s father: Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married 'Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consumed that marriage when she was nine years old.

Sahih Bukhari 5:58:236

Narrated 'Aisha: that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old , and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).

Sahih Bukhari 7:62:64

muslim apologists all over the world try to hide these facts from non-muslims and for good reason.
 
Don’t forget that they should know we are Christians by our love. The early Christians turned the world upside down by their charity.
 
Just because they say they hold to the faith of Abraham does that mean they are TRULY following they faith of Abraham? If cult leaders claim to be getting visits from Jesus does that mean Jesus is really talking to said cult leader? NO. The God Muslims worship is not the same God of the Bible. I can prove it.

According to God’s true Word, the Holy Bible, Yahweh only swears and takes oaths in his own name. The reason why Yahweh does this is because there is no one, or nothing, greater for him to swear by. Please note carefully the following statements from the Word of God:

“ I have sworn by Myself ; the word has gone out of My mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, that to Me every knee shall bow…” Isaiah 45:23

“ I swear by Myself , says the LORD.” Jeremiah 22:5

“For when God made a promise to Abraham, because He could swear by no one greater, He swore by Himself .” Hebrews 6:13

“ For men indeed swear by the greater , and an oath for confirmation is for them an end of all dispute.” Hebrews 6:16

The consistent example set forth in the Scriptures is that believers swear and take their oaths in God’s name…

“So I (Allah) swear by the Lord of all the points of sunrise and sunset in the east and the west that surely we are able.” Sura 70:40.

I swear by the Book that makes manifest (the truth).

Quran 44:2

Qaf. I swear by the glorious Quran (that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah)

Quran 50:1

I swear by the wind that scatters far and wide,

Quran 51:1

I swear by the Mountain,

Quran 52:1

I swear by the star when it goes down.

Quran 53:1

But nay! I swear by the falling of stars;

Quran 56:75

Noon. I swear by the pen and what the angels write,

Quran 68:1

Nay; I swear by the moon,

Quran 74:32

Nay! I swear by the day of resurrection.

Quran 75:1

I swear by the emissary winds, sent one after another (for men’s benefit),

Quran 77:1

I swear by the mansions of the stars,

Quran 85:1

I swear by the heaven and the comer by night;

Quran 86:1

I swear by the daybreak,

Quran 89:1

Nay! I swear by this city.

Quran 90:1

I swear by the sun and its brilliance,

Quran 91:1

I swear by the night when it draws a veil,

Quran 92:1

I swear by the early hours of the day,

Quran 93:1

I swear by the fig and the olive,

Quran 95:1

I swear by the runners breathing pantingly,

Quran 100:1

I swear by the time,

Quran 103:1
 
It is simple. It is not complicated. The God of the Bible swears upon himself because there is no one greater. In the quran allah swears on a multitude of different things. The examples I posted is just the tip of the iceberg. There are literally hundreds of examples of allah swearing on random things.
 
The Catechism has been changed and revised over time. Just because it says muslims and Catholics worship the one true God today… Doesn’t mean it will say that 25 years from now as people become more knowledgeable and the truth of what islam really is and what it represents comes into the light especially as former muslims speak out.

The Quran describes Gabriel as the angel and messenger who brought down the Quran unto Muhammad’s heart. In the hadith, however, the angel is described as PRESSING and STRANGLING Muhamad upon the giving of the revelation. Something *we NEVER find Gabriel doing in the Bible. Side note: Mohammed’s description of this event is exactly how people today feel when being attacked by a demon. Fear, strangling, and strange voices. NO ONE IN THE HISTORY OF THE BIBLE OR THE TORAH DESCRIBES AN ANGELIC ENCOUNTER IN THIS WAY. TO BE VISITED BY A TRUE ANGEL IS ONE THAT COMES WITH GOD’S LOVE, LIGHT, AND PEACE. NOT WHAT MOHAMMED DESCRIBES.

Following this event, Muhammad thought he was demon possessed according to Sahih bukhari 9:111 where it states that he was twitching with terror, asking what was wrong with him whilst demanding to be covered, fearing that something BAD may happen to him.

Also from Ibn Ishaq’s “Sirat Rasul Allah” Muhamad didn’t think this was Gabriel at first, but that he was demon possessed. P. 106-107. It was only until people convinced him that he was met by an angel that he slowly came to believe that he was called to prophet hood. (It is interesting to note that th so-called angel never identified itself as Gabriel. It was other people who made this suggestion to Muhamad to ease his fears.

As a matter of fact, even people during Muhammad’s time believed that he was demon possessed and was met, NOT by Gabriel, but by a devil:

So it is then no shock that we go on to read in the Quran that Jesus was NEVER killed or crucified: Quran 4:157. A complete contradiction to what the biblical gospel is, the death burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins.

“BUT EVEN IF WE OR AN ANGEL FROM HEAVEN SHOULD PREACH TO YOU A GOSPEL CONTRARY TO THE ONE WE PREACHED TO YOU, LET HIM BE ACCURSED.” – GALATIANS 1:8
 
Neithan said:
That either really happened, or is an incredibly elaborate hoax.
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How do you explain the apocryphal gospels? They are obviously partly true are they not?
Neithan said:
either God or a bad man.
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Jehovah’s Witnesses believe Jesus to be a great Prince and Prophet, but not God. Similarly with Muslims. That is hundreds of millions of people denying your dichotomy.
 
I am not. I am simply pointing out that the Catechism can change and could change in this regard. I am more interested in what you have to say to what I brought forward regarding the demonic nature of the spirit who gave mohammad his “revelations from god.”
 
Haha this made me laugh. I didn’t know you didnt believe in demons or angels. What exactly do you believe in?
 
I see… So, what do you say about the historicity of Jesus? Clearly, Jesus lived the most miraculous life in history. Do you believe Truth exists?

It makes more sense to believe in God than to not believe. If you believe, and God exists, you will be rewarded in the afterlife. If you do not believe, and He exists, you will be punished for your disbelief. If He does not exist, you have lost nothing either way.
 
AlNg said:
How do you explain the apocryphal gospels? They are obviously partly true are they not?
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Focus on the factual claims. What is it in an apocryphal gospel you’d like to consider? And why? Please be specific.
AlNg said:
Jehovah’s Witnesses believe Jesus to be a great Prince and Prophet, but not God. Similarly with Muslims. That is hundreds of millions of people denying your dichotomy.
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Sure, you can assert whatever you want to — argumentum ad populum aside. The issue is if there are reasonable grounds. If I claim that Napoleon was actually a metaphor for the sun god Apollo (see Ven. Fulton Sheen above for this comparison) and the historical reports we have were all corrupted, am I giving you reasonable grounds to believe this? Further to the point, if I say that Napoleon really existed but was just a popular officer who taught military strategy, and writings about him became “messy” with elaboration, is that reasonable?
 
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You are proposing Pascals gambit. A worthwhile approach, but impossible to undertake (IMHO). One either believes or not. If not, pretending to believe for the sake of such a hedge is simply inadequate.
 
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