Christians = Catholics

[Isa_Almisry]

Obviously, you know your daughter better than I do, but based on the quote, it doesn’t sound to me as if she is excluding Catholics from being Christians. Perhaps if she phrased it, “I have a lot of Christian friends, but few of them are Catholic,” it might more accurately convey what I personally feel she was trying to say. At the same time, however, realize that she is at an age where social standing means everything to stereotypical girls (and some never outgrow that desire.) So, it is important that you make sure she knows how to defend her faith from heretical attacks, and that she is firmly grounded in Catholic Truth. Anyway, as long as your daughter isn’t hanging out with the worldly types, I would count my blessings.

Yes, at least she is hanging around those who believe in Truth, although disputing on what that is.

 

[Atemi]

I agree that the problem is that the daughter seems to think of Christians and Catholics as being two different things.

How can that be the problem when the OP said of the daughter and Catholics:

“She knows we are Christians too”

The problem is when calling other Christians, “Christians,” all of a sudden is an offense.

…

 

[rpp]

This thread has degenerated into little else but Anti-Catholic bashing.

I am asking that it be locked.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

Let me tell you since the tremendous growth of evangelical Christianity * have been told on many occasions that I cannot call myself a Christian since I’m Catholic.And catholics are not considered Christians by many of the separated brethren. ! We are just following your lead and identifying ourselves they way you all want to identify us:thumbsup: * For some ungodly reason the first christians(catholics&orthodox) are not considered christians at all-how bizarre!

…and all the more reason to insist on calling it how it is. If the “Christians” don’t consider the Latin church a “Christian” church, then they are claiming the title Chrisitan in a manner not theirs by right.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

Here is a defination:

Christian - the name given by the Greeks or Romans, probably in reproach,** to the followers of Jesus *(“little Christ’s!”). It was first used at Antioch. The names by which the disciples were known among themselves were “brethren,” “the faithful,” “elect,” “saints,” “believers.” *But as distinguishing them from the multitude without, the name “Christian” came into use, and was universally accepted. This name occurs but three times in the New Testament (Acts 11:26; 26:28; 1 Peter 4:16)

I notice that even “back in the day” there were various names. But as a whole they were called Christians. Why cant we say Christian first then Catholic, Baptist etc

People would know we follow Christ, then the next part would say how. That would clear up issues for alot of us.

The muslims also claim to follow Christ. Should we include them too in this “clarification” of issues?

 

[Mannyfit75]

This thread has degenerated into little else but Anti-Catholic bashing.

I am asking that it be locked.

It points to one member of CAF that is bashing Catholics. There were no Catholic bashing until he enter this thread.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

As a Christian parent, I would be thankful that my child has chosen Christian friends (no matter what the denomination is) over everything else out there. Given all the garbage that occurs in high school, the last thing that Christian teenagers need is to become embroiled in the petty denominational disputes of their parents.

These kids need each other. Your are right, compared to all of the other issues kids face in high school this is a small one. Tweak the wording if you want to, but otherwise leave them alone.

There are plenty of “eccleasistical” communities who advocate homosexual marriage, condone abortion, preach the “health and wealth” Gospel (Christ died for your stock portfolio), etc…

Now if the friends don’t belong to one of them, all well fine and good. Otherwise…

 

[Isa_Almisry]

Actually my sons (now 8 and 10) have always seen through their mother’s church (mega mcchurch). I found out that she was going elsewhere (she had ostracized herself I found out from her third Orthodox parish in as many years) when the boys referred to their mother’s church as “the church where we don’t pray.”

Last year this “church” canceled Christmas services because Christmas fell on a Sunday.

My 8 year old, when he heard it said, “THAT’s dumb.”

I wondered if they canceled Easter this year because it fell on a Sunday.

My 10 year old, 8 at the time, asked me why his mother’s church didn’t have a Cross. Knowing the answer, I told him “because they think it makes people sad.” Thinking a moment, he then went “tsk! They call that a church? It’s not a Church it’s a mall!”

Btw, I’d fix the idea of “denomination” if that’s at the root of the problem. That just leads to Mormonism, JW, Islam etc. as being viable options.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

Yes it is, and your teen will determine whether it is boastful arrogance or righteous confidence in the truth based on what he/she sees in the lives of believers in the “one true church” as opposed to what he/she sees in the lives of believers who belong to “deficient ecclesiastical communitites who do not possess the fullness of truth” and not on your or your denomination’s say so.

So you had darned well better have the fruit to back up your claims of superiority to everybody else or it will be boastful arrogance to your teen.

Of course, there’s an easy (well, maybe not so easy) tried and true way to solve this:

PRACTICE WHAT YOU PREACH.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

No I don’t think you understand, this is what I keep referring to when it comes to some Catholics.

Act 11:26 And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.

They were called Christians, not Catholics. The term catholic (Universal) is used to describe those that follow Christ and HIS Church. I know you don’t think that I’m part of Christ’s Church, but thats OK because you are not going to judge anyone, you will be judged just like the rest of us.

(edited by moderator)

You are the ones calling yourselves Catholic, not Christian. All my in-laws are Catholic, and when asked they say “Catholic”, instead of Christian.

Where are Crystal Seas?

And what’s LBOL?

 

[Isa_Almisry]

They are also PROTESTANT.

Calling a spade a spade is the first defense. Protestants, especially the evangelical types (of which I was one once, now embraced Orthodoxy) like to use the grey “Christian.” Gets around the unconformtable issue that NO ONE believed as they do in the first nearly two thousand years of the Church.

Take the bull by the horns. Is the “Hail Mary” a “Christian” prayer?
If they say not, they are raising PROTESTANT objections, all the more problematic because the prayer is, except for the last line “Holy Mary…”, nothing but quotes from the Bible: remember solo scriptura (the last line, however not a quote, is biblical).

 

[Isa_Almisry]

So calling a Christian, a Christian, is an offense to you?

Interesting.

Ahhhh.

You must instill a subtle form of bigotry to maintain some sort of pride in your Christian affiliation.

It is sad how some people must embrace among themselves what they hate in others.

PS - teaching a 15 year old girl that her Christian friends are not members of the Body of Christ is to have her question their very salvation. There is no salvation outside the Body of Christ.

Ahhh.

Yes.

Why call Christians, Christians, when you can call them “poison”?

This is very unfortunate. All this serves to do is to teach Catholics to do what they condemn in others.

…

Look at mormonism, JWs.

Don’t eat green meat.

 

[jmcrae]

The Catholic church of today is a perversion of the original Church.

Yes, they had Mass every day of the week, and we only have it - oh wait, we have it every day of the week, too. Converts went through RCIA back then and - oh, wait, we have RCIA, too. They sang hymns and spiritual songs in their liturgies and we - oh, wait, we do that, too! They performed miracles, and we - oh yeah, we have miracles. too!

What was the difference between the Catholic Church of today and the early Church in the Book of Acts, again?

Of course it wouldn’t, the Catholic Church wasn’t around yet.

Actually, Peter was already the Pope by then, and we list Peter as our first Pope. It’s the separated ecclesial communities that didn’t exist yet. (The “non-denominational churches” began to exist in the late 1960s.)

 

[Atemi]

No one is condemning here. Why are you on the other hand so Anti-Catholic?

LOL.

If you could only read the contradiction you post above.

PS - try to stay on topic. Calling me names is not the topic.

 

[sphilomena]

Actually, it’s just passing on the truth and rejecting relativism.

I can understand why non-Catholics want Catholicism to be considered “just another denomination” because that puts their “faith communities” on equal footing with the true Church.

It’s just not that way, and Catholic kids need to be warned of those shoals which can shipwreck their faith because of the dangers that are hidden beneath the surface.

Hope this helps. :tiphat:

I agree. Everyone should know that the Catholic Church is the one founded by Christ. Nothing wrong with that. “Dear Abby” had a column years ago listing the founders of each religion and even she wrote that our founder was Jesus Christ.

 

[francesco920]

How can that be the problem when the OP said of the daughter and Catholics:

“She knows we are Christians too”

The problem is when calling other Christians, “Christians,” all of a sudden is an offense.

…

Nobody is saying that! You are being a tad bit too paranoid here.

And yes, I read what the OP’s daughter said, but language is VERY important and what she needs to understand is that the language she is using implies that Catholics are not Christians. If somebody says “Catholics and Christians…” they have separated the two as if they are referring to two separate groups. And since language, whether written or spoken, is an outward expression of what one is thinking, then at some level the person who separates the terms “Christian” and “Catholic” in speech has separated the two in his or her mind.

If you read my post again, you will find that I have no problem with calling Protestants or Orthodox “Christian.” The problem I have is that when one Christian group is named by their particular name, then other groups should also be referred to by their specific names.

For example, saying “Catholics and Christians…” or “Protestants and Christians…” or “Orthodox and Christians…” would all be wrong because grammatically there is a separation that doesn’t exist in reality. It is being implied that there are two groups that are separate from each other; that is, what is being implicitly said is that “Catholics” does not equal “Christians.”

If one group is mentioned specifically, then the other group should either be referred to by its specific name or by referring to it with its general name with the word “other” in front of it if its general name is the same as the other group that has been mentioned by its specific name: “Catholics and Protestants…” or “Catholics and other Christians…” In this way, there is no grammatical separation between the words “Catholics” and “Christians.”

Oblaidon - I was going to say this in my original post but I forgot. One thing you could also explain to your daughter is that her Evangelical or Fundamentalist friends will make a distinction between “Catholic” and “Christian” because they do not view the two to be the same. I’m in high school and a close Evangelical friend of mine once referred to his faith as “simple Christianity” - Christianity with nothing added to it. While he views Catholics as Christians, he views us as also having extra beliefs that are unnecessary and even harmful to the “simple Christian” faith. Of course, as Catholics we believe that our faith is the “simple Christian” faith and that Protestantism is lacking some of this faith. The things Protestants reject are not “extras.”

 

[Mannyfit75]

LOL.

If you could only read the contradiction you post above.

PS - try to stay on topic. Calling me names is not the topic.

Fine my apologizes. Just reframe from making those remarks please, and I for my part will do the same. Fair enough?

 

[Oblaidon]

How can that be the problem when the OP said of the daughter and Catholics:

“She knows we are Christians too”

The problem is when calling other Christians, “Christians,” all of a sudden is an offense.
…

I never said it was an offense to call a non-Catholic a Christian. That is fine because they are Christians. It’s when you don’t include Catholics into the Christian Category that it is a problem.

It might be because the non-Catholics **she knows **don’t belong to any one denomination, or they don’t want to identify themselves with say, Methodists, Baptists or whatever. So when asked what religion they are they say Christian. My daughter’s response should be, “Well, I am Christian too. I go to St. Brigids”

If someone asks me what religion I am, I say Catholic. Christian should be implied. If some says they are Christian my first question would be, “What church do you attend? Oh, so you are ‘Baptist’. We are Catholic.” I won’t say they are Baptist Christian, because the Christian part would be implied.

Should I just let it go and say, “Just be glad she is in with the right crowd?” No, I won’t do that. I don’t want her to think she is better than everyone else because she is Catholic, at the same time I don’t want her to be ashamed of it. It is a good point of discussion for a father and 15yold. So, next time it comes up we can talk about saying, “Non-Catholics Christians” when referring to the other Christian friends. (She first made the separation between Christians and Catholics, not me)

 

[DanteAlighieri]

This thread has degenerated into little else but Anti-Catholic bashing.

I am asking that it be locked.

As is often the case when Atemi starts to hijack a thread. Interesting how that happens…

Peace,
Dante

 

[Michael_Francis]

Twenty posts pruned and more edited and citations issued where needed.

Any questions? You know how to reach me.
MF