Christians flee after Muslims destroy village

[Jay53]

i said that blasphemy laws are good , but i didn’t say that death penaltiy as punishment is good

OK. I don’t agree, but OK.

althought it’s very strict law but i think that they have the rights to defend the lies which said about thier prophet specifically when muslims are the majority

Defending against lies are one thing. Throwing people in jail for life or murdering them is totally different.

beside , such laws will prevent occuring of civil wars

Not sure how that would happen. I guess if you totally suppress the other religions in a Muslim country so that they are not free to express or practice their religion it might work.

may be muslims are very sensetive to thiere religion and thier love to thier prophet , but in the same time we can see christians are most haters for islam with very bad behaviours trying to raise the religious conflicts within society

Where do you get your evidence that Christians are the “most haters for Islam”, although on second thought perhaps we are because Islam insults Jesus by denying His Crucifixion and Divinity. Personally, I do hate Islam (not Muslims ) because of the way it leads so many people astray and away from Jesus. It seems (to me) to focus more on earthly rules and rituals and the outward appearances of religion than on what is in one’s heart.

they have rights to control such situations by strict laws , or do you think that it will be wise to allow christians insult muslims while muslims are the majority , then all of us will pray to God that muslims will welcome thiere behaviours and hide thier emotions and love thier enemy !!!

Yes!!! If the Christians are doing nothing more than expressing their opinion about the wrongness of Islam or denying the prophethood of Muhammad or exposing the evils of his life, than Yes, Muslims should ignore the comments, pray to God and love their enemy. It is exactly what Jesus wants us to do! (If you are referring to a situation that has escalated to violence, then that’s a whole 'nother ball game! )

 

[elwill]

Not sure how that would happen. I guess if you totally suppress the other religions in a Muslim country so that they are not free to express or practice their religion it might work.

is the insulting of other religions is that mportant in christianity teaching and practices ?

Where do you get your evidence that Christians are the “most haters for Islam”, although on second thought perhaps we are because Islam insults Jesus by denying His Crucifixion and Divinity. Personally, I do hate Islam (not Muslims ) because of the way it leads so many people astray and away from Jesus. It seems (to me) to focus more on earthly rules and rituals and the outward appearances of religion than on what is in one’s heart.

it’s my feelings actually through my discussions with agnostic and athiests and christians . , etc . i find christians are the most of them hates islam and trying to make all the people hate it
may be you hate islam but i didn’t hear from hate speach , i’m talking about hate speach

as for you consider that denying of muslims for jesus as God to be insult , so i have to declare that it isn’t the insult i’m talking about here , we didn’t consider your denying for mohammed to be insult , but we consider Defaming our religion or our prophet to be insult

Yes!!! If the Christians are doing nothing more than expressing their opinion about the wrongness of Islam or denying the prophethood of Muhammad or exposing the evils of his life, than Yes, Muslims should ignore the comments, pray to God and love their enemy. It is exactly what Jesus wants us to do! (If you are referring to a situation that has escalated to violence, then that’s a whole 'nother ball game! )

i made many discussion here with different christians , some of them express thier openion in kindness and rational mannar , other do by insulting
didn’t you ever felt that ?

God command us to not insult you
108 - Revile not ye those whom they call upon besides God, lest they out of spite revile God in their ignorance. thus have we made alluring to each people its own doings. in the end will they return to their lord, and we shall then tell them the truth of all that they did.

in another verse
125 - Invite (all) to the way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious: for thy Lord knoweth best, who have strayed from his path, and who receive guidance.

 

[Jay53]

is the insulting of other religions is that mportant in christianity teaching and practices ?

No, but professing our faith and affirming the Divinity of our Savior, Jesus Christ is important. If, in the course of a discussion about religion or faiths, a Christian were to deny the prophethood of Muhammad or mention his molestation of Aisha or his request/command for certain people to be murdered, that would be considered an insult to Muhammad and punishable by death or life in prison.

it’s my feelings actually through my discussions with agnostic and athiests and christians . , etc . i find christians are the most of them hates islam and trying to make all the people hate it
may be you hate islam but i didn’t hear from hate speach , i’m talking about hate speach

Such as? The blasphemy laws in Pakistan don’t mention “hate speech”. They indicate an insult, direct or indirect etc. against Muhammad.

I completely agree that hate speech should not be tolerated, but murder is not an acceptable solution either.

as for you consider that denying of muslims for jesus as God to be insult , so i have to declare that it isn’t the insult i’m talking about here , we didn’t consider your denying for mohammed to be insult , but we consider Defaming our religion or our prophet to be insult

What is considered “defaming your religion”? I think perhaps we are on two different wavelengths here.

i made many discussion here with different christians , some of them express thier openion in kindness and rational mannar , other do by insulting
didn’t you ever felt that ?

Yes. Some people are just not tactful. Some are downright mean. I still don’t think any of them should be murdered or thrown in prison for life for expressing their opinion. Each of us is unique and special in the eyes of God. That is one of the big differences I see between Christianity and Islam. Christianity may hate the sin, not the sinner, but Islam, as I see it, not only hates the sin, but sees fit to take the place of God and exact judgment in His place on the sinner.

God command us to not insult you
108 - Revile not ye those whom they call upon besides God, lest they out of spite revile God in their ignorance. thus have we made alluring to each people its own doings. in the end will they return to their lord, and we shall then tell them the truth of all that they did.

in another verse
125 - Invite (all) to the way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious: for thy Lord knoweth best, who have strayed from his path, and who receive guidance.

These are very nice verses. I’m just curious, when were these verses “revealed” in relation (time-wise) to the verses that command Muslims to fight the unbelievers and smite them or humiliate them until they pay the jizyah?

 

[elwill]

What is considered “defaming your religion”? I think perhaps we are on two different wavelengths here.

to try to diminish the reputation of him in vain

you can practise your religion and you can preach it as you like , it isn’t insulting to our religion

Yes. Some people are just not tactful. Some are downright mean. I still don’t think any of them should be murdered or thrown in prison for life for expressing their opinion. Each of us is unique and special in the eyes of God. That is one of the big differences I see between Christianity and Islam. Christianity may hate the sin, not the sinner, but Islam, as I see it, not only hates the sin, but sees fit to take the place of God and exact judgment in His place on the sinner.

so in christianity there’s no needs for any laws
as for you hate the sin of theft but you didn’t have to punish the thief
as for you hate the sin of kill but you didn’t have to punish the killer
as for you hate the sin of rape but you didn’t have to punish the raper

what do you mean by that christianity hate the sin , not the sinner ?

These are very nice verses. I’m just curious, when were these verses “revealed” in relation (time-wise) to the verses that command Muslims to fight the unbelievers and smite them or humiliate them until they pay the jizyah?

it was in maakah , and the other about jiziah was in madinah , why?
do you see contradictions ?

 

[redhen]

A person has a right to express their opinions about religion. It’s called “Freedom of expression.” Why is it that Muslims act in such a violent way when they think that the name of their prophet and religion is being blasphemed or degraded? We Christians hear about people talking bad about Christianity all the time,** but do you see us burning down an entire village?**

Not lately. But there are many blasphemy laws still on the books of several Western countries.

caslon.com.au/blasphemyprofile14.htm

It’s interesting to see that it’s still a crime in my native Canada.

laws.justice.gc.ca/en/showdoc/cs/C-46/bo-ga:l_VIII-gb:s_296/20090730/en#anchorbo-ga:l_VIII-gb:s_296

" 296. (1) Every one who publishes a blasphemous libel is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years. "

Well, at least there’s no death penalty. Whew.

 

[Jay53]

to try to diminish the reputation of him in vain

Not sure what this means. His reputation is diminished by the sins he committed, although he may have repented - that’s not my place to judge.

you can practise your religion and you can preach it as you like , it isn’t insulting to our religion

But we can’t point out the wrongness of Islam or the evils of Muhammad’s life to those who ask?

so in christianity there’s no needs for any laws
as for you hate the sin of theft but you didn’t have to punish the thief
as for you hate the sin of kill but you didn’t have to punish the killer
as for you hate the sin of rape but you didn’t have to punish the raper

what do you mean by that christianity hate the sin , not the sinner ?

It means that we may hate what a person has done, the evil that they have committed, but we don’t hate the person himself. Maybe I’m just of the opinion that Islam’s consequences don’t fit the crime. As in the case of blasphemy, I certainly don’t think someone should be murdered for speaking an opinion - for or against ANY religion.

I don’t seem to hear much about forgiveness in Islam as Jesus preached. Maybe that is just because of my limited exposure to it.

it was in maakah , and the other about jiziah was in madinah , why?
do you see contradictions ?

I was just curious. The opinion has been broached several times in various threads that the Mecca verses are the “peaceful” ones where Muhammad was trying to assert his prophethood. Then when it didn’t work and the knowledgeable Jews/Christians did not accept him, he became more violent towards them. That is part of my questioning why people believe/believed Muhammad. This may not be accurate, but it seems that the only people he was able to convince of his prophethood at that time were those who had pagan roots and/or no accurate knowledge of the Jewish or Christian faiths. Those that DID have such knowledge knew to reject Muhammad as a false prophet.

 

[seraphime2008]

to try to diminish the reputation of him in vain

when is exposing someone’s bad fruit be regarded as diminishing someone’s reputation? Are u saying that we’re not supposed to tell the truth? If u think that someone’s reputation is not diminished even though he introduced some peculiar laws and did some very bad thing, then just accept the fact and say that it was ok to you and to muslims to act that way, for example to marry a very young age girl, to marry more than one, to get divorce when u like it, to kill the unbelievers, to retaliate until u satisfied and so on. But if u urself find these laws and his acts unacceptable, why become angry and think that we’re defaming him?

so in christianity there’s no needs for any laws
as for you hate the sin of theft but you didn’t have to punish the thief
as for you hate the sin of kill but you didn’t have to punish the killer
as for you hate the sin of rape but you didn’t have to punish the raper

what do you mean by that christianity hate the sin , not the sinner ?

we believe that of course to make a healthy society, the law should be imposed to the people, then it is the duty of the country that everyone is abiding the law. This is explicitly mentioned in the bible that we have to give what belongs to the country/ (caesar is the reperesentative of the country) what it deserves, and to God what God deserves. But when we’re talking about the punishments of people because of their sins that can only be a matter of their relationship with God and with their society , we are not advised to judge their soul as if we are God, we are not to judge them as we think we are holier, better, more favorable to God because we know that God only can be the judge of souls. We are then advised to bring them to turn to god so that they can have a repaired relationship with him. So in that case we can never kill them, yes there;s punishment from the law of the country, but we don’t punish them their soul , we will give them chances to repent. That what i understand that we don’t hate the sinners, but hate the sin.

 

[DeusVult09]

as we need from christians to stop insulting other religions

i don’t think that it was the act of government , as i don’t think that the laws state a destruction of village and church as punishment

but anyway , i believe that laws agianst blasphemy are wise for whoever seek the peace in the country

i don’t think that freedom of blasphemy is wise decesion to keep the people in peace with each other

my condemnation is for the behaviour of those muslims , not for blasphemy restrictions in thier laws

and what about freedom of speech and freedom of belief? In secular countries Christianity gets insulted all the time and you don’t see such outright viciousness

 

[DeusVult09]

Laws against blasphemy cannot be good for anyone as it sets the government up as the arbiter of religion. Insulting Mahomet is no different than insulting Will Ferrell. Both are just men. It is not blasphemy.

If Islam is so weak and Moslems such wusses that an insult to a dead guy makes then feel the need to riot and kill, then perhaps Islam should be viewed more as a psychological defect than a religion?

.blasphemy should not be the domain of the state but as we all know few Muslim countries have adopted secularism which is how such constant abuses occur. And what a Muslim will consider as blasphemy is very ambiguous as in some instances Muslims who have converted to Christianity have been charged under these laws as committing blasphemy. But as many Islamic states adopt a policy of persecuting and even murder of apostates based on Mohammad’s comments in the sunnah it comes as no surprise. I just hope one day Muslim countries will gain greater freedom of religion

 

[cthulhubryan]

.blasphemy should not be the domain of the state but as we all know few Muslim countries have adopted secularism which is how such constant abuses occur. And what a Muslim will consider as blasphemy is very ambiguous as in some instances Muslims who have converted to Christianity have been charged under these laws as committing blasphemy. But as many Islamic states adopt a policy of persecuting and even murder of apostates based on Mohammad’s comments in the sunnah it comes as no surprise. I just hope one day Muslim countries will gain greater freedom of religion

Agreed,

Blasphemy should never be a law. It is this peculiar Islamic idea that causes so much death and destruction in the world.

Perhaps it is time for the free world to take over maintenance and administration of the worlds oil supply and therefore render those areas under international protection. Then free peoples would have much less reason to travel to countries with such inappropriate laws.
Though this would cause disruption of said economies by removing oil revenues, part of the proceeds from the sail of now international oil could be used to help Muslims to understand why such laws are crimes against humanity.

 

[planten]

This sound like some thing the Mulsim will do as me. mr, planta will say its a regilion of peace &%$*&

** Man is a bad animal. I do not support such things. My religion also does not support it. These acts are done by ignorant religious bigots.

So there is no need to blame it on islam. Of course the ulk of the Muslim Ummah is full of such people because such bad deeds are being taught to poor Muslims.

There are other people who spoke out openly against all such bad acts. But they were suppressed by the Mullas and common Muslims. Those good people who opposed persecution of others, they were beaten and killed by the same type of bigots.
Don’t woryy, such bad peopel will be defeated and eradicated soon.

**

 

[jen_fla]

** Man is a bad animal. I do not support such things. My religion also does not support it. These acts are done by ignorant religious bigots.

So there is no need to blame it on islam. Of course the ulk of the Muslim Ummah is full of such people because such bad deeds are being taught to poor Muslims.

There are other people who spoke out openly against all such bad acts. But they were suppressed by the Mullas and common Muslims. Those good people who opposed persecution of others, they were beaten and killed by the same type of bigots.
Don’t woryy, such bad peopel will be defeated and eradicated soon.**

and how will such eradication be achieved?

are you saying that your sect of islam even though it is in the minority of islam is going to take care of the majority “common” muslims, ie sunni and shiite?

indeed it is clear some men and women do behave as animals.

 

[DeusVult09]

I hate when muslims assault some other ppl and it is put in the limelight meanwhile nobody seems to care about what the chinese government is doing to the muslims and what the Burmese Buddhists are doing to the muslims living in Burma…bet nobody knows about what the muslims go through in burma
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Muslims_in_Burma
Just an example of something similar to this article: A muslim attempted to rape a buddhist women and in response the buddhists marched into the muslim village and burnt the mosque to the ground and burnt down shops and killed many muslims.
Yes what the muslims are doing here may not be right to christians but what about all the bad things that are happening to muslims from christians, buddhists, hindus, etc all around the world?

wasalam

the Chinese government has massacred like 20 million Christians i think yet nobody talks about that either. Same with the Burmese government they have persecuted and murdered thousands of people from a predominantly Christian ethnic group, i think they are called karin or soemthing like that. The bad things done to Muslims by Christians in western countries is pretty small, compared to the amount of persecution done to Christians in Muslim countries which is pretty atrocious. Even human rights groups have said so.

 

[DeusVult09]

Many anti-Christianity books and movies were banned in some Islamic countries…but since Muslims are more sensitive,they make headlines

What nonsense!

If anti-Christian books are banned in Muslim countries then please show me 1 Muslim country which has banned Ahmed Dedat’s books or Zakir Naik? Or the books of any anti-Christian sheik who attacked the bible? I don’t think so.

 

[DeusVult09]

** Man is a bad animal. I do not support such things. My religion also does not support it. These acts are done by ignorant religious bigots.

So there is no need to blame it on islam. Of course the ulk of the Muslim Ummah is full of such people because such bad deeds are being taught to poor Muslims.

There are other people who spoke out openly against all such bad acts. But they were suppressed by the Mullas and common Muslims. Those good people who opposed persecution of others, they were beaten and killed by the same type of bigots.
Don’t woryy, such bad peopel will be defeated and eradicated soon.

**

If Islam was a religion of peace Muslims would march in the streets every time a Muslim terrorist or jihadist commits an atrocity but what do they do ? nothing! other than blame it all on the Jews and the CIA. Its always the Jews’ fault , they did 911 , the bali bombings, the Mumbai attacks just to make Muslims look bad right? Hahah yeah right! What nonsense. I will not believe Islam is a religion of peace until Muslims protest en mass in the streets against terrorism every time it occurs and reject the vile and intolerant wahabist /islamist hate ideology which promotes it .Muslims get so upset that they riot in the streets out of anger against Israel and their percieved injustices agaisnt muslims but why do we not see the same thing when atrocities are perpetrated by Muslims?

 

[planten]

If Islam was a religion of peace Muslims would march in the streets every time a Muslim terrorist or jihadist commits an atrocity but what do they do ? nothing! other than blame it all on the Jews and the CIA. Its always the Jews’ fault , they did 911 , the bali bombings, the Mumbai attacks just to make Muslims look bad right? Hahah yeah right! What nonsense. I will not believe Islam is a religion of peace until Muslims protest en mass in the streets against terrorism every time it occurs and reject the vile and intolerant wahabist /islamist hate ideology which promotes it .Muslims get so upset that they riot in the streets out of anger against Israel and their percieved injustices agaisnt muslims but why do we not see the same thing when atrocities are perpetrated by Muslims?

**Deus, remember that people go astray slowly. They come to the right path slowly. Some never learn a lesson and never come back in safe mode.

You please wait for longtime. Also make sure that you are not on the wrong side of people who are blamimg every one enmasse. Do you believe that there are some good people amongst muslims who are considered heretics by mainline Muslims? Do you know that any one amongst Muslims who is struggling hard for peaceful living? Think hard. It may be one in a million.

Would you support that pro-peace person even if he was Muslim i.e. not a chiristain?**

 

[jen_fla]

** Man is a bad animal. I do not support such things. My religion also does not support it. These acts are done by ignorant religious bigots.

So there is no need to blame it on islam. Of course the ulk of the Muslim Ummah is full of such people because such bad deeds are being taught to poor Muslims.

There are other people who spoke out openly against all such bad acts. But they were suppressed by the Mullas and common Muslims. Those good people who opposed persecution of others, they were beaten and killed by the same type of bigots.
Don’t woryy, such bad peopel will be defeated and eradicated soon.**

hi planten.

i see you didn’t answer my question. maybe you are busy, but if you have some time could you please elaborate on how these people will be defeated and eradicated?

thanks.

 

[DeusVult09]

**Deus, remember that people go astray slowly. They come to the right path slowly. Some never learn a lesson and never come back in safe mode.

You please wait for longtime. Also make sure that you are not on the wrong side of people who are blamimg every one enmasse. Do you believe that there are some good people amongst muslims who are considered heretics by mainline Muslims? Do you know that any one amongst Muslims who is struggling hard for peaceful living? Think hard. It may be one in a million.

Would you support that pro-peace person even if he was Muslim i.e. not a chiristain?**

No I don’t think all Muslims or violent or terrorists. I never said that but what I didn’t say was for people in the west to stop thinking Islam is a death cult Muslim have to be more accountable and more vocal in protesting actions done in the name of their god. The problem is , the same intolerant whabist ideologies full of intolerance and hate which largely help foster terrorism are prevalent throughout the Middle-east. All you have to do is to see how the Islamic media is brainwashing countless millions. Go to MEMRI or Palestinian media watch and you can see thousands of Muslim programs filled with the same sick and twisted ideology of hate as that which inspires terrorists. My point was until this islamist ideology of hatred towards all the kafirs and Islamic dominance has been removed and Muslims actually hold the terrorist accountable (not just blame their actions on the Jews) nobody in the west will take the Muslim claim of being a religion of peace at all seriously. I would support a pro-peaceperson if he wasnt anti-semitic or full of hatred. I have had Muslim friends i know they are not all like that but then again I have met Muslims who were pretty bad hatemongers. The problem as i see it is brainwashing and the prevalence of wahabism.

 

[jakasaki]

More madness coming out of Pakistan over the koran - although this time it did not involve Christians or at least the article does not metion such:

**‘Blasphemy’ claims three more victims

Factory owner killed by workers for ‘desecrating holy Quran’ in Sheikhupura**
…

A worker entered Najeebullah’s factory at around 2pm and saw that the owner had taken down an outdated calendar – which had verses from the holy Quran written on it – and put it on a table. The worker then misbehaved with the owner over – what he thought – was “desecration” of the holy Quran. When a guard tried to stop him, he ran out into the working area and started gathering his colleagues, claiming the owner had committed ‘blasphemy’.
…

**Heavy police contingents rushed to the factory to bring the situation under control, but the angry mob seized their weapons. **

The killings on Tuesday come amid heightened tensions in another part of Punjab. Rioters in Gojra burnt alive at least seven Christians on Saturday over blasphemy allegations.

dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2009%between%8%between%5\story_5-8-2009_pg1_10

And another:

Another ‘blasphemy’ case

LAHORE: An angry mob attacked the house of a 60-year-old woman in Sanghar district in Sindh in another alleged incident of desecration of the holy Quran, a private TV channel reported late on Wednesday.

Following the attack, the police shifted the woman, Akhtari Malkani, to the police station from a katchi abadi area in the district. The District Bar Association officials assured the mob that a case would be registered against the woman if she was found guilty.

**Despite assurance from the lawyers and police, the people demanded that the woman should be handed over to them and pelted stones at the police station building and burned tyres on road. **

dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2009%between%8%between%6\story_6-8-2009_pg1_7

 

[ricko]

Here’s some of the article from Spero.com; (Emphasis mine)

Christians burned to death in Pakistan by Muslims

In a second day of blazing violence inspired by Muslim leaders, mobs attacked two villages in the Punjab region of Pakistan. In the second wave, Christians were burned to death in their homes. One victim was a seven-year-old child.

On August 1, around three thousand violent Muslim demonstrators attacked a Christian community in the town of Gojra in Punjab province and burned 8 Christians to death, including a 7 year-old child. Four women and two men were among the dead, while 20 others were injured. Fires set by Muslim mobs were extensive in the region: on July 31 Muslim marauders burned down two churches and scores of Christian homes following appeals by local Muslim leaders to avenge a supposed desecration of the Koran in Gorja, a village just 3 miles away.

Local mullahs apparently added to the heightened emotions among Muslim believers in the region who were demanding the head of Talib Masih - a Christian who is charged with blasphemy against the Koran. A general strike was called and demonstrations began early in the morning on July 31. Mobs of Muslims marched on the Christian quarter in the village of Koriyan, blocking main roads and the local railway. When armed Muslim militants approached the locale, Christians opened fire. In apparent retaliation, Muslims then burned and looted Christian homes and places of worship. The Muslim mobs also attacked local police who tried to intervene.