Christians have a mission to convert all Muslims, says Vatican official
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RPRPsych
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:whacky:
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WT1
Guest
This issue is something I am very confused about please note the following:
**Second Vatican Council, Lumen Gentium 16, November 21, 1964
“But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place among whom are the Muslims: these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”
usccb.org/beliefs-and-teachings/ecumenical-and-interreligious/interreligious/islam/vatican-council-and-papal-statements-on-islam.cfm**
For some time I’ve tried very hard to find a consensus view of how we as Catholics should view the religion of Islam but I’m struggling to do so. I would be very interested in the opinion and insights of others on this issue.
Thanks
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Robert_Bay
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This article has twisted the words of the cardinal so much as to make it a commentary, not a news article
Thread closed.
Thread closed.
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peter26
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Good, of course we should try to convert muslims since they do not worship the true God that we worship - Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
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Pulvis
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Gospel of St Matthew, ch. 2
16] And the eleven disciples went into Galilee, unto the mountain where Jesus had appointed them. [17] And seeing him they adored: but some doubted. [18] And Jesus coming, spoke to them, saying: All power is given to me in heaven and in earth. [19] Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. [20] Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world."
The Cardinal is correct.
16] And the eleven disciples went into Galilee, unto the mountain where Jesus had appointed them. [17] And seeing him they adored: but some doubted. [18] And Jesus coming, spoke to them, saying: All power is given to me in heaven and in earth. [19] Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. [20] Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world."
The Cardinal is correct.
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Rhubarb
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Well, doesn’t the Great Commission say Christians have a mission to convert everyone?
Muslims are part of everyone.
Therefore, Christians have a Mission to convert Muslims.
Muslims are part of everyone.
Therefore, Christians have a Mission to convert Muslims.
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Emperor_Markus
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The Cardinal speaks the truth.
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irenaeus1
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What seems unreasonable is the cardinal’s assertion that we are not to seek the conversion of Jews. WHAT!?.. Certainly, this must have been a misstatement. After all, Jesus, Peter, Paul, and the early apostles and disciples would certainly not have agreed with this. Else why then did Jesus say that he came for the lost sheep of Israel? Why then would St. Peter say to the 3,000 Jews at Pentecost, “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit” (Acts 2:38) if not to actively seek Jewish converts? Why would Paul say the very opposite in Rom 10:1 – namely, that his heart’s desire and prayer to God on behalf of the Jews is for salvation. And why then did St. Paul make it a point when he preached in a city to first go to the synagogues – to preach to the Jews first – if not for the desire to seek Jewish converts? Paul longed for their conversion and did everything he could to persuade them of the truth of the gospel (e.g., Acts 18:4, 2 Cor 5:11), but it would seem that Paul should have done no such thing… and according to this article, neither are we.
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gilliam
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You may wish to read this:
Even though Christianity teaches there is only one path to salvation in Jesus, this “does not in any way follow that Jews are excluded from God’s salvation because they do not believe in Jesus Christ as the Messiah of Israel.”
- The Church’s mandate to evangelize in relation to Judaism
- It is easy to understand that the so–called ‘mission to the Jews’ is a very delicate and sensitive matter for Jews because, in their eyes, it involves the very existence of the Jewish people. This question also proves to be awkward for Christians, because for them the universal salvific significance of Jesus Christ and consequently the universal mission of the Church are of fundamental importance. The Church is therefore obliged to view evangelisation to Jews, who believe in the one God, in a different manner from that to people of other religions and world views. In concrete terms this means that the Catholic Church neither conducts nor supports any specific institutional mission work directed towards Jews. While there is a principled rejection of an institutional Jewish mission, Christians are nonetheless called to bear witness to their faith in Jesus Christ also to Jews, although they should do so in a humble and sensitive manner, acknowledging that Jews are bearers of God’s Word, and particularly in view of the great tragedy of the Shoah.
- The concept of mission must be presented correctly in dialogue between Jews and Christians. Christian mission has its origin in the sending of Jesus by the Father. He gives his disciples a share in this call in relation to God’s people of Israel (cf. Mt 10:6) and then as the risen Lord with regard to all nations (cf. Mt 28:19). Thus the people of God attains a new dimension through Jesus, who calls his Church from both Jews and Gentiles (cf. Eph 2:11-22) on the basis of faith in Christ and by means of baptism, through which there is incorporation into his Body which is the Church (“Lumen gentium”, 14).
- Christian mission and witness, in personal life and in proclamation, belong together. The principle that Jesus gives his disciples when he sends them out is to suffer violence rather than to inflict violence. Christians must put their trust in God, who will carry out his universal plan of salvation in ways that only he knows, for they are witnesses to Christ, but they do not themselves have to implement the salvation of humankind. Zeal for the “house of the Lord” and confident trust in the victorious deeds of God belong together. Christian mission means that all Christians, in community with the Church, confess and proclaim the historical realisation of God’s universal will for salvation in Christ Jesus (cf. “Ad gentes”, 7). They experience his sacramental presence in the liturgy and make it tangible in their service to others, especially those in need.
- It is and remains a qualitative definition of the Church of the New Covenant that it consists of Jews and Gentiles, even if the quantitative proportions of Jewish and Gentile Christians may initially give a different impression. Just as after the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ there were not two unrelated covenants, so too the people of the covenant of Israel are not disconnected from ‘the people of God drawn from the Gentiles’. Rather, the enduring role of the covenant people of Israel in God’s plan of salvation is to relate dynamically to the ‘people of God of Jews and Gentiles, united in Christ’, he whom the Church confesses as the universal mediator of creation and salvation. In the context of God’s universal will of salvation, all people who have not yet received the gospel are aligned with the people of God of the New Covenant. “In the first place there is the people to whom the covenants and promises were given and from whom Christ was born according to the flesh (cf. Rom 9:4-5). On account of their fathers this people remains most dear to God, for he does not repent of the gifts he makes nor of the calls he issues (cf. Rom 11:28-29)” (“Lumen gentium”, 16).
Even though Christianity teaches there is only one path to salvation in Jesus, this “does not in any way follow that Jews are excluded from God’s salvation because they do not believe in Jesus Christ as the Messiah of Israel.”
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irenaeus1
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That is much different than saying that Christians do not have a mission to convert the Jews.
I’m not sure I understand this statement. Paul wished himself accursed, if that were possible, to save some of his kinsmen according to the flesh, yet “we” feel no sense of urgency because the Jews have their own special covenant relationship with God apart from Jesus Christ, and “we” have no desire to seek their conversion to Christ in fulfillment of the Abrahamic Covenant – no desire to have the natural branches grafted in again (cf. Rom 11:17-24). The question is - why then was this lost on Paul, Peter and others? Why then did they feel compelled to preach to Jews at all if it doesn’t matter whether they believe in Jesus Christ as the Messiah? Recall that the first several thousands of converts to the Church were Jews – Jews who came to the knowledge of the truth through the active preaching and persuasion of the apostles (who were themselves Jews) and other Church leaders. “For how can they call upon Him in whom they have not believed? And how can they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone to preach?” (Rom 10:14). This applies to both Jews and Gentiles. The gospel is the power of God unto salvation for all who believe - Jew first, then Gentile. Jews are not excluded from the power of God unto salvation when they believe in the gospel.
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RPRPsych
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Note how this immediately becomes All. About. The. Jews.
Against whom were the Crusades launched?
Who was responsible for 9/11?
Who is creating havoc in Syria and the Levant?
Who is carrying out indiscriminate acts of terrorism all over the world?
There is a time for everything.
Even Christ, during his mission, recognized priorities in evangelization and said “do not go to the Gentiles, but to the people of Israel.” The Gentiles’ turn would come.
In the Acts of the Apostles, it is written that the Spirit “prevented” some of the Apostles from evangelizing a particular region at a given time, though they did so later.
But no, let’s forget that people in Islamic regions are in desperate need of the Gospel, and let’s whine about the Jews.
This is almost as bad as those “traditional” sites which conveniently ignore Islamic terrorism in favour of their evil Judaic conspiracy theories
God help us. As for me, I’m going to have some more
Against whom were the Crusades launched?
Who was responsible for 9/11?
Who is creating havoc in Syria and the Levant?
Who is carrying out indiscriminate acts of terrorism all over the world?
There is a time for everything.
Even Christ, during his mission, recognized priorities in evangelization and said “do not go to the Gentiles, but to the people of Israel.” The Gentiles’ turn would come.
In the Acts of the Apostles, it is written that the Spirit “prevented” some of the Apostles from evangelizing a particular region at a given time, though they did so later.
But no, let’s forget that people in Islamic regions are in desperate need of the Gospel, and let’s whine about the Jews.
This is almost as bad as those “traditional” sites which conveniently ignore Islamic terrorism in favour of their evil Judaic conspiracy theories
God help us. As for me, I’m going to have some more
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Robert_Bay
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MODERATOR NOTICE
This thread is wandering, please return to the topic of the original post
This thread is wandering, please return to the topic of the original post
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WT1
Guest
This is actually very helpful. Broken down we have these points:
- There are 3 Abrahamic religions: Judism, Christanity and Islam.
- God has a covenant with the Jews as told in the OT.
- Jesus is the new covenant (which is Christanity) as told in the NT.
- We do not have a reliable recorded convenant from God with Islam.
Theologically am I correct?
Thanks
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ComplineSanFran
Guest
It was a bit startling to read the heading above and then see recent pictures of the Pope embracing and kissing Sheik Ahmed Muhammad Al-Tayyib, the premiere Imam from Cairo.
I did not see the statements each of them made, but I am certain it had to do with dialogue and coming together in honor and respect for each other and each other’s faith.
My guess is that it probably didn’t include the Catholics trying to covert the Muslims. Or even the other way around. The Pope is very intent on establishing Interfaith relationships; it is one of the things he is most respected for. I have never read a word about his using these relationships for conversion purposes.
I did not see the statements each of them made, but I am certain it had to do with dialogue and coming together in honor and respect for each other and each other’s faith.
My guess is that it probably didn’t include the Catholics trying to covert the Muslims. Or even the other way around. The Pope is very intent on establishing Interfaith relationships; it is one of the things he is most respected for. I have never read a word about his using these relationships for conversion purposes.
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_Abyssinia
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The article I posted says Cardinal Koch made the comments at an “interfaith meeting”.
Christians have a mission to convert everybody on this planet, except Jews, to the Christian faith.
Pope Francis was being respectful to the Imam, as he is to many others when he meets them, regardless of their religion.
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irenaeus1
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Christians have a mission to convert everybody on this planet, including Jews, to the Christian faith. Now, evangelization may look different with Jews than with other non-Christian peoples since Christians can show how the New Testament is hidden in the Old and the Old Testament is revealed in the New, but they are to be included nonetheless. Not sure how familiar Muslims are with the Old Testament.
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Genesis315
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Exactly. The fact that people are shocked or confused by the Church’s permanent and divine mission to seek (with the indispensable aid of grace and the Holy Spirit, of course) the conversion of all to the one true religion, shows there is a major problem. :sad_yes:
This is one of the most basic truths of the faith. The topic of the OP should not be a headline–it should be treated like a headline that says “liquid water found to be wet.”
The Church teaches us not to exclude anyone.
Pope Francis said:
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_Abyssinia
Guest
This is confusing. In the OP it says, “We have a mission to convert all non-Christian religions’ people [except] Judaism,” and a Vatican document that came out last year says, “the Catholic Church neither conducts nor supports any specific institutional mission work directed towards Jews”.
bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35061357
bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35061357
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