Christians should apologize for helping to marginalize gays, pope says

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pianistclare said:
No. He should NOT be quiet.
Bad things happen because people are quiet.
He should speak out. We have to live the Gospel. If he doesn’t promote Gospel values, you can expect more of the same awful things happening in our world.
We don’t support evil acts. We support people. And we hope to lead them to holiness.
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:clapping: :clapping: :clapping:

I’m sick and tired of all the rude comments aimed at Pope Francis, and from “devout” Catholics nonetheless. :rolleyes:
 
Convert_in_99 said:
:clapping: :clapping: :clapping:

I’m sick and tired of all the rude comments aimed at Pope Francis, and from “devout” Catholics nonetheless. :rolleyes:
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:clapping:

I agree with you completely, Convert in 99. I find it nothing short of repugnant.

I stand beside the Successor of Saint Peter and Visible Head of the Church…of whom I have absolutely no criticism or critique. He is a tremendous gift to the Church – and also to the world for this moment of geo-political crisis.
 
Don_Ruggero said:
:clapping:

I agree with you completely, Convert in 99. I find it nothing short of repugnant.

I stand beside the Successor of Saint Peter and Visible Head of the Church…of whom I have absolutely no criticism or critique. He is a tremendous gift to the Church – and also to the world for this moment of geo-political crisis.
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I think it’s 50/50.
 
Don_Ruggero said:
I beg your pardon?
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I don’t remember talking to you about parents beating up their kids. Some people think that spanking is parental abuse. I agree after a certain point. I do have a thing about *“Look at me and feel sorry for me, for I am a victim of abuse!” *I still think there are some things that don’t need to be aired out in public all the time. Some groups though have a habit of directing attention to their alleged victimization, as though they suffer more than other people.

While I am here I can relate a story told to us by our 7th grade Sister. She said she slapped a person who said something to the effect his mother didn’t have to bring him into the world. I think this may have gotten the point across better than trying to explain to him.

Oh well, those were other days, other mores!
 
zamyrabyrd said:
Why is being beaten up by one’s mother, or father for that matter, surprising? It happens all the time for a variety of reasons.
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I was abused in several different ways for many years at the hands of my mother and older half brother. (No, not spanked), so I have a lot of empathy for others who were abused. Unless one has been there, it’s hard to understand the devastation felt when the people you trust most in the world abuse you. Abuse happens randomly (due to drugs, alcohol, or just people being mean). The unpredictability is another characteristic that breaks hearts.

Why would you assume ‘beaten up’ meant ‘spanked’? I have never heard anyone use the term ‘beaten up’ when referring to being spanked.

Also, in the case of the person I was responding to, the point was why the abuse happened. Can you not feel any empathy towards this situation?
 
Catholic_farmer said:
I was abused in several different ways for many years at the hands of my mother and older half brother. (No, not spanked), so I have a lot of empathy for others who were abused. Unless one has been there, it’s hard to understand the devastation felt when the people you trust most in the world abuse you. Abuse happens randomly (due to drugs, alcohol, or just people being mean). The unpredictability is another characteristic that breaks hearts.

Why would you assume ‘beaten up’ meant ‘spanked’? I have never heard anyone use the term ‘beaten up’ when referring to being spanked.

Also, in the case of the person I was responding to, the point was why the abuse happened. Can you not feel any empathy towards this situation?
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I had my share of unfairness too, plus physical abuse, will not go into it because I don’t crave sympathy. However, there are two sides to a story. I can just imagine a situation in which a son or daughter “comes out” which can be really gut wrenching to a parent who spent at least 20 years of his or her life to bring children up in a right way. Such a discussion can escalate when there is verbal abuse on BOTH SIDES.

I really used to cringe when hearing Michael Jackson washing his dirty laundry in public, saying how his father abused him by pushing him to practice long hours. Boo-hoo, if it weren’t for his father, he wouldn’t be here and also without a career. So many celebrities get cheap attention by bringing out the abuse card. Oprah was one of them. How can I have empathy when not hearing both sides of a story? Now has been revealed a youtube character who was making up stories of being abused. This is not the first time from that group like the one who wrote something scurrilous on a cake he already bought.

What I don’t see (humanly speaking), I don’t believe.
 
Don_Ruggero said:
:clapping:
I stand beside the Successor of Saint Peter and Visible Head of the Church…of whom I have absolutely no criticism or critique. He is a tremendous gift to the Church – and also to the world for this moment of geo-political crisis.
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The hardest job in ALL THE WORLD is the Pope’s. He has the pastoral burden of 1,200,000,000 Catholics (I wrote out the number as 1.2 billion doesn’t exactly have the same effect.) He is under scrutiny for the slightest word and action by the remaining Christian community, by the secular world, Moslems, and just about every other human being on the planet.
 
Confiteor_Deo said:
The Pope should just stop talking to the reporters. It seems that every time he does, he says something that’s able to be easily twisted to support evil. I think that we deserve an apology from the gays, not the other way around.
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Yes, we do deserve an apology from the homosexuals, and from Adam, and from those who gossip, and from those lie. All sin is an attack on nature. None of this has anything do to with what the Holy Father said. He is teaching. Let those who have ears to hear, listen. How can a shepherd abandon his duty to the sheep?
 
pnewton said:
Yes, we do deserve an apology from the homosexuals, and from Adam, and from those who gossip, and from those lie. All sin is an attack on nature. None of this has anything do to with what the Holy Father said. He is teaching. Let those who have ears to hear, listen. How can a shepherd abandon his duty to the sheep?
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Although I am still somewhat leery about a Popes answer at a press conference being a “papal decree” even if this was true I am very confused about just who I am to apologize to and what I am supposed to apologize for.
 
I think it’s appropriate to apologize if you have ever said anything to degrade or belittle another person. In this case, many of us have fallen short on charity when stating Church teachings. Speaking the truth about God’s laws doesn’t give us the right to degrade another.
 
Catholic_farmer said:
I think it’s appropriate to apologize if you have ever said anything to degrade or belittle another person. In this case, many of us have fallen short on charity when stating Church teachings. Speaking the truth about God’s laws doesn’t give us the right to degrade another.
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That’s true. And not speaking the truth about Church teachings also hurts people, and that deserves an apology. Here is a gay man who believes that we need to apologize for not speaking the truth, for allowing those desperately seeking truth to instead embrace actions which led to physical and spiritual sickness and death:
josephsciambra.com/should-the-catholic-church-apologize-to-gays/
 
JimG said:
That’s true. And not speaking the truth about Church teachings also hurts people, and that deserves an apology.
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Just like not everyone has treated homosexuals with a lack of dignity, not everyone has misrepresented Church doctrine, this anecdote not withstanding. The author is right only in the sense I mentioned above, that is, how one can go on and on about all the things that we could apologize for, including bad priests. Of course in this day and age, he could have read the catechism for himself, or come to sites like this. In twelve years here, the teaching that homosexuality is intrinsically disordered has been shown and documented 100% of the time. For a blogger, I am surprised he missed such things.
 
pnewton said:
Just like not everyone has treated homosexuals with a lack of dignity, not everyone has misrepresented Church doctrine, this anecdote not withstanding. The author is right only in the sense I mentioned above, that is, how one can go on and on about all the things that we could apologize for, including bad priests. Of course in this day and age, he could have read the catechism for himself, or come to sites like this. In twelve years here, the teaching that homosexuality is intrinsically disordered has been shown and documented 100% of the time. For a blogger, I am surprised he missed such things.
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On the verge of accepting his homosexuality, he was told by a Catholic priest that he needn’t worry as every homosexual is born gay; he sent him on his way with a socially responsible warning about the dangers of unsafe sex. If the truth had been preached to him, instead of this lie, his life may have turned around at that point. Why was the priest willing to let this man follow a sinful lifestyle without a word about how it is wrong?

How is telling someone he needn’t worry and that he should practice safe sex going to heal this man’s soul? I am glad he did not give up praying and found good priests to help him. Jesus Christ died for us because He knows we are sinners. He loves us and wants us to be forgiven. His sacrifice is what heals us from our sins and brings peace to our souls. Didn’t the priest know the teachings in the catechism about homosexuality and the teachings of his own faith?

I do not mean to criticize anyone, I am just wondering how such things can happen, when we put so much trust in the Church to guide us to salvation.
 
pnewton said:
Just like not everyone has treated homosexuals with a lack of dignity, not everyone has misrepresented Church doctrine, this anecdote not withstanding. The author is right only in the sense I mentioned above, that is, how one can go on and on about all the things that we could apologize for, including bad priests. Of course in this day and age, he could have read the catechism for himself, or come to sites like this. In twelve years here, the teaching that homosexuality is intrinsically disordered has been shown and documented 100% of the time. For a blogger, I am surprised he missed such things.
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Apparently Joseph Sciambra was not reading Catholic Answers during his time living an active homosexual lifestyle. Yet he did personally seek out several priests in an attempt to return to the Faith of his youth and was told he was where he needed to be—a gay man; just practice safe sex.

He did eventually find priests who compassionately led him back. Thank the Lord for them.

But we seem to be asking apologies only from those who were unkind, not from those who refused to speak the truth, a far greater disservice. Mr. Sciambra does have a list of things for which the Church should apologize. I won’t list them here, but they are a lot more serious than hurt feelings.

josephsciambra.com/should-the-catholic-church-apologize-to-gays/
 
gilliam said:
“I think the church not only must say it is sorry to the gay person it has offended, but also to the poor, to exploited women” and anyone whom the church did not defend when it could, he told reporters June 26
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The secret to understanding these remarks is understanding that these are based on his personal experiences in Argentina. Preface every jarring comment with “In Argentina,…” and you will be at peace.
 
pianistclare said:
I just think you should give the Vicar of Christ due respect and a chance to teach before tossing out his words or not giving it proper reflection.

Again, what is so horrible about trying to make peace?
Do we not say something kind before we attempt to convert people? Is this not basic?
If people who are sinning come to know that they can be heard, and forgiven by Christ, they are more OPEN to conversion and proper instruction. I’ve never known anyone that would listen to a teaching when the phrase “oh, and by the way, you’re definitely goin to hell” is part of the convo. What do good confessors do? They listen, and in kindness lead us to **change our sinful ways. **
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I tried for an hour to come up with the same sentiment. You stated it perfectly. 👍
 
Don_Ruggero said:
It is, in fact, precisely the people who are saying such things against our Holy Father – the Successor of Peter, the very rock upon which the Church is built and endures – it is those people that are be denounced.

Across my priesthood, I have seen now a good number of popes. Of them all, how delighted I am that Good Pope John, who was also so maligned but who was in fact God’s gift to the Church and the world, is canonised. That Paul, who was such an extraordinary person, is beatified. And that John Paul II, one of the greatest men to ever occupy the Chair of Peter and one of the most incredible human beings one could hope to know, is also canonised.

We are so blessed now to have the Pope we have in Pope Francis.
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Amen to all of that Father.👍
 
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