Christians, stop this beckering and put aside your difference, so we can be one faith!

[rev_kevin]

The bible also says not to tolerate heresy. (Titus 3:10)

Titus 3:10 says, “If anyone is causing divisions among you, give a first and second warning. After that, have nothing more to do with that person.”
Heresy:
1} religious opinion contrary to the doctrines of a church
2} opinion or dictrine contrary to a dominant or generally accepted belief.
I said nothing against your church doctrine nor have I said anything against any church.
Christianity is a dominant or generally accepted belief so I being a Christian see no heresy there.
You have accused me of heresy without proof or andy evidence me doing so. Therefore I would like a apology from you for accusing me of such a horable act as that.

 

[Nine_Two]

Titus 3:10 says, “If anyone is causing divisions among you, give a first and second warning. After that, have nothing more to do with that person.”
Heresy:
1} religious opinion contrary to the doctrines of a church
2} opinion or dictrine contrary to a dominant or generally accepted belief.
I said nothing against your church doctrine nor have I said anything against any church.
Christianity is a dominant or generally accepted belief so I being a Christian see no heresy there.
You have accused me of heresy without proof or andy evidence me doing so. Therefore I would like a apology from you for accusing me of such a horable act as that.

“heretic” (αἱρετικὸν), is the word your translation is translating as “causing divisions”, using a politically correct bible is all well and good, until it comes time to learn something from it.

I also did not say you were a heretic, I said the bible says we are not to tolerate heretics (“have nothing more to do with that person”). It doesn’t matter who the heretic is in the arangement, the bible tells us not to have anything to do with each other.

What proof do I have that you hold to different doctrines than me? How about what we have listed next to “religion.” The gulf between us is quite wide, and either I am a heretic or you are a heretic. It is also possible that we are both heretics.

 

[rev_kevin]

“heretic” (αἱρετικὸν), is the word your translation is translating as “causing divisions”, using a politically correct bible is all well and good, until it comes time to learn something from it.

You are very good with the way you word things. It seems funny that you picked my post to say something about heresy.

I also did not say you were a heretic, I said the bible says we are not to tolerate heretics (“have nothing more to do with that person”). It doesn’t matter who the heretic is in the arangement, the bible tells us not to have anything to do with each other.

The Bible also says to love your neighbor
Romans 12 starting at 4 says, "Just as our bodies have many parts and each part has a special function, so it is with Christ’s body. We are all parts of his one body, and each of us has different work to do, And since we are all part of one body in Christ, we belong to each other, and each of us needs all the others. God has given each of us the ability to do certain things well. So if God has given you the ability to prophesy, speak out when you have faith that God is speaking through you. If your gift is that of serving others, serve them will. If you are a teacher, do a good job of teaching. If God has given you leadership ability, take the responsibilty seriously. And if you have a gift for showing kindness to others, do it gladly. Don’t just pretend that you love others. Rally love them. Hate what is wrong. Stand on the side of good. Love each other with genuine affection, and take delight in honoring each other…

What proof do I have that you hold to different doctrines than me? How about what we have listed next to “religion.” The gulf between us is quite wide, and either I am a heretic or you are a heretic. It is also possible that we are both heretics.

If you read my post you would have read that I have nothing against your doctrine or any church.
How about what we have listed next to religion.
Religion:
The service and worship of God or the supernatural.
Belief in or devotion to religious faith or observance.
The state of a religious.
A set or system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices.
A cause, principle,or system of beliefs held to with zeal and faith {Latin “religio”}
Religious:
Devoted to God or to the powers or principles believed to govern life.
Belonging to a religious order.
Of or relating to religion.
Dependable. faithful, a member of a religious order.

You are covering your self by saying neither of us are heretics and it is possible that both of us are. Like I said you are very good a the way you word things, It keeps it open ended.

 

[agiosotheos]

I am fed up with the Christians beckering about authority, doctrines, etc.

I’m fed up with Christians not bickering about doctrine. Too many Christians I encounter nowadays believe that we really need no doctrinal unity to have Sacramental unity, and this disgusts me.

The fights between Catholics, Eastern Orthodoxy, and Protestants is STUPID and counter productive.

I don’t agree. Only by “telling it how it is” do we have any chance of being honest about where we are; only by such do we have a chance to convince others to return to the Apostolic faith and thus come to proper unity in the Sacraments.

I tell you why this Christian faith of ours is not UNITED! You all keep on arguing amongst yourself!

No, it’s because many, so far, have refused to submit their opinions to the teachings of the Tradition held in common when we were the Undivided Church.

and our leaders HAVE BEEN working their time and offer their own sacrifices for a possible UNION with all Christian faith.

Many of our “leaders” are ecumenists and politicians who are truly interested in compromising doctrine for the sake of some false ecclesiastical “unity”.

WHILE YOU ALL continue to promote disunity.

No, many of us are simply holding to the standard of proper unity: that this can only happen if we actually have oneness in dogma.

Don’t you want to be one Christian Church like it was before the Schism of 1054?

No, I want the Christian Church like it was before the Schism of 451.

Come on, Christian unity begins with us and the posts here between all of us and reading disagreement after disagreement, sickens me. STOP IT!

No, I will not submit to your false unity.

Mannyfit75:
Christian Unity is the will of Jesus Christ, and everyday, you dishonor him by your STUPID ARGUMENTS!!

I am simply seeking to honor Him by refusing to compromise on doctrine.

 

[agiosotheos]

The same unity that both our leaders of both our Churches want. A unity that will bring a common understanding between Eastern Orthodox and Catholicism, without sacrificing any of their traditions

Lord have mercy! Rome must renounce a number of its traditions before a proper union can be made.

 

[agiosotheos]

So that Christ’s Church can ONE again so Jesus’ will can be done.

Christ’s Church never stopped being one. There was simply various fallings away from the Church, not an actual division of it.

 

[agiosotheos]

but people seem to spend so much time arguing about things that are simply not essential for unity and salvation.

There are a number of things argued about that are essential for unity and salvation.

 

[agiosotheos]

They might as well argue that we would have unity if we Catholics would drop all the dogmas that they do not believe in.

That is exactly what I’m arguing.

 

[agiosotheos]

The bigger question is, what is ‘beckering’?

:clapping:

 

[agiosotheos]

I don’t understand why we are bickering about who’s church is the right church. What church was here the longest. Who started the church. What the true church is.

Because only the Church established by Christ contains the assurance of the fullness of salvation. The salvation of anyone outside the original Church is in question.

His intent is for us to come to him no matter what church you beling to or how your church worships

That is impossible. We cannot come to God save through the Church.

We all belong to the same God.

Not really. I don’t worship the same God as the Romans. They believe in a God who can be seen. I don’t. I believe in a God who is one with His Energies. They don’t. I believe in a Triune God based on the monarchy of the Father. They confound the monarchy of the Father.

I see no where in the Bible that says only a certain religion is able to come to him.

That’s nice. But the Tradition of the Church says that there is no salvation outside the Church.

It says ALL WHO BELIEVE IN ME WILL HAVE ETERNAL LIFE. All doesn’t mean all of one religion, it means EVERYONE, YOU, ME, THE PERSON NEXT DOOR, EVERYONE IN THE WORLD WHO BELIEVES IN HIM.

Do you really know who Christ is to the same extent as an orthodox believer? I don’t think so. Thus you cannot believe in Him to the same extent.

With all that is going on in the world, don’t you think we all, every Christian religion and person, need to come together as one in Christ not in one religion.

Being sufficiently one in Christ means being one in the religion He gave us.

 

[agiosotheos]

Wow. It baffles me how someone can be both so indifferent and yet so passionate about that indifference, what with all the capital letters and whatnot.

You write as though “Non-Denominational” is not itself a denomination. That is not the case, so you too have made your choice. It is safe as milk and you want us all to join in your writhing mass of heresy and ridiculousness instead of sticking to our respective liturgies and traditions. I can’t see why anyone who is serious about their faith should do so. Communion is closed on the basis of doctrinal differences because such differences matter, because doctrine matters. To claim it doesn’t as many seem to be doing here is to spit in the face of the martyrs of the early church, the early church fathers, the councils, and really everything that makes Christian history and tradition important enough to continue the divisions that exist in world Christianity. Hundreds of thousands (millions?) have died in post-Chalcedonian conflicts, Muslim and other invasions, periods of Iconoclasm, etc. Are we going to say they died for nothing just because we want “unity”? No. Or at least I’m not going to. I’m eternally grateful to those who came before me who were willing to fight so that today we can worship Jesus, the Christ, the Risen Lord and Savior of all, and do so with visual imagery, with appropriate hymnody, and (most importantly) an appropriate understanding of what an absolutely precious gift we have that others may not have. I refuse to cheapen this treasure by sharing it with everyone who says “Lord, Lord”. The devil and his minions also recognize the power of God. Heck, Satan tempted Jesus in the desert, remember?

We may all be part of God, but is a little simplistic to leave it at that. Some, having been created by Him, nonetheless use the free will He is has given them to reject Him by choosing to worship something else, sometimes even under the guise of Christianity. I want no part of that, and I want my Church to affirm that we are to have no part of that.

:clapping:

 

[agiosotheos]

So, I think there’s two kinds of division: the God-ordained division which is the good kind; and the Jew-vs-Greek kind of division which is the bad kind.

Jurisdictional, cultural, and liturgical division according to region is good. Division according to doctrine and sacraments is bad.

 

[agiosotheos]

I guess you want unity only if they convert to your religion and your beliefs.

Not entirely. But conversion to our dogmas, our fundamentals, is necessary.

Remember Ephesians 4:3-7 says, “Always keep yourself united in the Holy Spirit, and bind yurselves together with peace, We are all one body, we have the same Spirit, and we have all been called to the same glorious future. There is only one Lord, one faith, one baptism, and there is only one God and Father, who is over us all and in us all and living through us all, However, he has given each one of us a special gift according to the generosity of Christ.”

If we do not have one faith, as the passage describes, we likewise will not have one Lord or one Baptism and we will not be united in the Holy Spirit.

Galatians 4:14-15 says, “For the whole law can be summed up in this one command: Love your neighbor as yourself. But if instead of showing love among yourselves you are always biting and devouring one another, watch out! Beware of destroying one another.”

We would not be loving if we were not calling people to be converted to the faith of the Apostles.

 

[Justy90]

I am fed up with the Christians beckering about authority, doctrines, etc. The fights between Catholics, Eastern Orthodoxy, and Protestants is STUPID and counter productive. I am done. I tell you why this Christian faith of ours is not UNITED! You all keep on arguing amongst yourself! This displeases me so much. I often check on news about unity concerning Christian unity, and our leaders HAVE BEEN working their time and offer their own sacrifices for a possible UNION with all Christian faith. WHILE YOU ALL continue to promote disunity.

Don’t you want to be one Christian Church like it was before the Schism of 1054? Come on, Christian unity begins with us and the posts here between all of us and reading disagreement after disagreement, sickens me. STOP IT!

When Non-Christians see our UNITY, they will ponder who JESUS CHRIST IS. Is he truly a God-Man, or a DECEIVER!

Any Christian here who continues to foster disunity, I will pray for your soul. I will offer the Divine Mercy Chaplet on your behalf. That way, your lukewarm heart will OPEN UP to God’s will, and NOT YOURS.

Christian Unity is the will of Jesus Christ, and everyday, you dishonor him by your STUPID ARGUMENTS!!

I agree! Let’s all be one. You can have your Marian Dogmas if I can keep my Book of Common Prayer. You can keep Pope Benedict for your spiritual leader if I can keep Archbishop Duncan of Pittsburgh for mine. You can keep singing Ave Maria if I can keep singling A Mightly Fortress Is Our God. Your Eucharist is the same as my Eucharist. Your 7 sacrements are the same as my 7 sacrements. It sounds good to me, let’s do what it takes to be in communion with one another!

 

[agiosotheos]

I agree! Let’s all be one. You can have your Marian Dogmas if I can keep my Book of Common Prayer. You can keep Pope Benedict for your spiritual leader if I can keep Archbishop Duncan of Pittsburgh for mine. You can keep singing Ave Maria if I can keep singling A Mightly Fortress Is Our God. Your Eucharist is the same as my Eucharist. Your 7 sacrements are the same as my 7 sacrements. It sounds good to me, let’s do what it takes to be in communion with one another!

faints

 

[Nine_Two]

If you read my post you would have read that I have nothing against your doctrine or any church.
How about what we have listed next to religion.
Religion:
The service and worship of God or the supernatural.
Belief in or devotion to religious faith or observance.
The state of a religious.
A set or system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices.
A cause, principle,or system of beliefs held to with zeal and faith {Latin “religio”}
Religious:
Devoted to God or to the powers or principles believed to govern life.
Belonging to a religious order.
Of or relating to religion.
Dependable. faithful, a member of a religious order.

And that all means what? A religion is made by its doctrines. You can not have two believers with two very different opinions on what is essential doctrine within a single religion. I’m sorry for not sugar coating this, but it is what it is.

You are covering your self by saying neither of us are heretics and it is possible that both of us are. Like I said you are very good a the way you word things, It keeps it open ended.

I never said neither of us are heretics, I said one or both of us are. Of course my opinion on the matter is plain, however if my opinion is wrong then one of the other two options must be correct (neither of those two options are neither of us are heretics). Pretending we are all the same and nothing real divides us and we can all just sing and dance and we’re all the same is foolishness.

 

[dzheremi]

I agree! Let’s all be one. You can have your Marian Dogmas if I can keep my Book of Common Prayer. You can keep Pope Benedict for your spiritual leader if I can keep Archbishop Duncan of Pittsburgh for mine. You can keep singing Ave Maria if I can keep singling A Mightly Fortress Is Our God. Your Eucharist is the same as my Eucharist. Your 7 sacrements are the same as my 7 sacrements. It sounds good to me, let’s do what it takes to be in communion with one another!

What are we, dividing up personal belongings after a divorce? I’m sorry, but this is just bizarre. I would be scandalized if anyone were to actually approach Rome (or Alexandria, or Constantinople, or Jersualem…) in such a fashion.

 

[rev_kevin]

Because only the Church established by Christ contains the assurance of the fullness of salvation. The salvation of anyone outside the original Church is in question

That is impossible. We cannot come to God save through the Church.

Not really. I don’t worship the same God as the Romans. They believe in a God who can be seen. I don’t. I believe in a God who is one with His Energies. They don’t. I believe in a Triune God based on the monarchy of the Father. They confound the monarchy of the Father.

That’s nice. But the Tradition of the Church says that there is no salvation outside the Church.

Do you really know who Christ is to the same extent as an orthodox believer? I don’t think so. Thus you cannot believe in Him to the same extent.

Who are you to say that I don’t really know who Christ is. Who are you to say the I can’t believe in him to the same extent. You have no right to say such things nor do you have any idea of how much I believe in Him.
I take offence to your statement about my belief and faith in Jesus Christ.
With this statement I no longer wish to converse with you. I am not going to give you the pleaser of answering you questions. If that is how you and your church think of themselves and of others,which is less then Christian like, you do not deserve a answer. How dare you. I have nothing more to say to you that is not Christian like and that God would accept, except have a good day sir/madam!!!

Being sufficiently one in Christ means being one in the religion He gave us.

 

[rev_kevin]

And that all means what? A religion is made by its doctrines. You can not have two believers with two very different opinions on what is essential doctrine within a single religion. I’m sorry for not sugar coating this, but it is what it is.
Sugar coating this ha ha ha ha, I gave you what religion is, If you don’t accept it who cares, Believe what you want it makes no difference to me.

I never said neither of us are heretics, I said one or both of us are. Of course my opinion on the matter is plain, however if my opinion is wrong then one of the other two options must be correct (neither of those two options are neither of us are heretics). Pretending we are all the same and nothing real divides us and we can all just sing and dance and we’re all the same is foolishness.

Yes you are foolish. We all came from the same God, I would quess that unity means nothing to you if some one is in a different religion. You don’t know what unity is.

 

[dzheremi]

Kevin, have you ever considered that perhaps the concept of unity has serious consequences and important implications for those of us who believe in maintaining the doctrinal integrity of the faith? If you could see beyond your desire for a surface, exclusively corporal type of unity at all costs, you would understand why your ideas and characterizations have been opposed at every turn.

I don’t know why you think any of this has anything to do with you, anyway. Frankly, I can’t imagine that it is among the top priorities of any bishop to unite with the self-professed “non-denominationals” by any definition of “unity”.