Christians that are into Judaism

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I’ve noticed that lately there is this trend for some protestants to be very into Judaism and Israel. I have a cousin that is learning Hebrew and constantly talks about Israel and the jews. I have a former girlfriend from high school that is convinced that to be authentically christian as the first christians were, one must also practice a lot of the original jewish customs. She believes the sabbath has to be saturday and that evil roman catholics changed the day of worship to sunday in order to worship the sun god. She too is learning Hebrew, and is trying to live by some of the old testament laws. Both my cousin and this girl believe that the temple in Israel has to be rebuilt, and that the jews are the chosen people of God and have some separate kind of salvation going on for them.

Now, for the most part I don’t pay much attention to judaism or the jewish people or Israel in general. IMO, I’m Christian because I follow Christ and Christianity is the fullfillment of the jewish faith. And now that Jesus has died for us, all of those old laws and beliefs and practices have been fullfilled and don’t apply. I don’t understand the idea of bringing this stuff back or for the need for Christians to relive judaism. Peter has a pretty good discussion about this with God, and Paul reminds him about this later on. IMO that stuff is done, let’s move on to the faith Jesus left us.

The jews are God’s chosen people, and hopefully God will remember that come judgement. But mostly I don’t concern myself with that. Frankly, Jesus told us to believe in Him and that He was the way. IMO encouraging judaism over the acceptance of Christ is wrong, and not what we were charged with.

So what’s with the attention to judaism or some kind of hybrid judeo-christianity? Why are christians seeking to add this stuff into christianity, when salvation through Christ is the way? I don’t understand it.
 
Watch the documentary Armageddon, and read what John Hagee has to say. He believes the Jews will be converted to Christ and if we hasten them along by pretending to care about them, Armageddon (the battle) will happen sooner and Christ will return and the world will end sooner.

Hagee is the one who called the Catholic Church the Whore of Babylon, as described in Revelations.

Jesus was a Jew, but this is all twisted stuff by this one person who has a lot of power.
 
Hello…I have no any idea about this thread. Please update me with useful information.
 
thomasf said:
I’ve noticed that lately there is this trend for some protestants to be very into Judaism and Israel. I have a cousin that is learning Hebrew and constantly talks about Israel and the jews. I have a former girlfriend from high school that is convinced that to be authentically christian as the first christians were, one must also practice a lot of the original jewish customs. She believes the sabbath has to be saturday and that evil roman catholics changed the day of worship to sunday in order to worship the sun god. She too is learning Hebrew, and is trying to live by some of the old testament laws. Both my cousin and this girl believe that the temple in Israel has to be rebuilt, and that the jews are the chosen people of God and have some separate kind of salvation going on for them.

Now, for the most part I don’t pay much attention to judaism or the jewish people or Israel in general. IMO, I’m Christian because I follow Christ and Christianity is the fullfillment of the jewish faith. And now that Jesus has died for us, all of those old laws and beliefs and practices have been fullfilled and don’t apply. I don’t understand the idea of bringing this stuff back or for the need for Christians to relive judaism. Peter has a pretty good discussion about this with God, and Paul reminds him about this later on. IMO that stuff is done, let’s move on to the faith Jesus left us.

The jews are God’s chosen people, and hopefully God will remember that come judgement. But mostly I don’t concern myself with that. Frankly, Jesus told us to believe in Him and that He was the way. IMO encouraging judaism over the acceptance of Christ is wrong, and not what we were charged with.

So what’s with the attention to judaism or some kind of hybrid judeo-christianity? Why are christians seeking to add this stuff into christianity, when salvation through Christ is the way? I don’t understand it.
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I guess there is a certain fascination some people have with religious beliefs and practices that are different from their own and perhaps a genuine desire to learn about other faiths. I don’t see much harm in it so long as one doesn’t abandon one’s own beliefs and decide to experiment. It may in fact help promote mutual understanding and respect between faiths, which I believe is always welcome. On the other hand, I agree with you that Christianity has its own practices and it is important to remain true to them. So where there are contradictory principles between religions, I might gently remind your friend and relative to pay attention to their own tradition while learning about another.
 
thomasf said:
I’ve noticed that lately there is this trend for some protestants to be very into Judaism and Israel. I have a cousin that is learning Hebrew and constantly talks about Israel and the jews. I have a former girlfriend from high school that is convinced that to be authentically christian as the first christians were, one must also practice a lot of the original jewish customs. She believes the sabbath has to be saturday and that evil roman catholics changed the day of worship to sunday in order to worship the sun god. She too is learning Hebrew, and is trying to live by some of the old testament laws. Both my cousin and this girl believe that the temple in Israel has to be rebuilt, and that the jews are the chosen people of God and have some separate kind of salvation going on for them.

Now, for the most part I don’t pay much attention to judaism or the jewish people or Israel in general. IMO, I’m Christian because I follow Christ and Christianity is the fullfillment of the jewish faith. And now that Jesus has died for us, all of those old laws and beliefs and practices have been fullfilled and don’t apply. I don’t understand the idea of bringing this stuff back or for the need for Christians to relive judaism. Peter has a pretty good discussion about this with God, and Paul reminds him about this later on. IMO that stuff is done, let’s move on to the faith Jesus left us.

The jews are God’s chosen people, and hopefully God will remember that come judgement. But mostly I don’t concern myself with that. Frankly, Jesus told us to believe in Him and that He was the way. IMO encouraging judaism over the acceptance of Christ is wrong, and not what we were charged with.

So what’s with the attention to judaism or some kind of hybrid judeo-christianity? Why are christians seeking to add this stuff into christianity, when salvation through Christ is the way? I don’t understand it.
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If I have time, I certainly would like to learn Hebrew and the ancient custom and the way of living of the Jews. We cannot deny the fact that Jesus was a Jew and lived among the Jews. The more we understand Hebrew and the ancient way of life of the Jews, the better we understand the bible. That is not necessarily make us becoming Jews. Surely, the RC and our early fathers of the Church has done great things to help us understand the bible. That is why we do not agree with the Sola Scriptura basis.
 
It’s entirely appropriate to learn about the customs, laws and festivals of the Jews as these give very valuable insights into our own faith. But these observances passed away and were replaced with something far greater.

Paul makes this point irrefutably (although not simply)

2 Cor 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: 8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? 9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

What he is saying is that these old Jewish observances were certainly glorious, but they were glorious in that they brought condemnation upon those who followed them. This glory of condemnation could be glorious only to the extent that it pointed to something of far greater glory, namely the glory of righteousness which is found in the customs, laws and observances of the Christian church.

The Jewish law came by Moses the prophet. But the Christian law came by a greater prophet even then Moses; being of course Jesus Christ.

If you remember the story, the glory of Moses when his face shone such that the children of Israel could not bear to look upon him; this glory was a reflection of the glory of God which gradually faded away. But in Jesus Christ this glory never fades but is an eternal and exact representation of the glory of God.

Therefore in respecting and honouring the customs, laws and observances of the Jewish religion, we must never fail to give greater honour, greater obedience, and greater observance to those laws, customs and observance of the Christian religion which are vastly superior and will never fade away but will continue on for all eternity.

We should regard with particular disgust and abhorrence, those who entice Christians of weak faith and poor catechesis into the bondage of the old covenant law. Evildoers such as this who prey after the weak for financial gain are spoken of in the book of Jude.

My warnings of such men come from the scripture.
Titus 1:10 For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers,** specially they of the circumcision:** 11 Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre’s sake.

The men of the circumcision were a group that were trying to get Christians to be circumcised and to adopt all kinds of practices of the old Jewish religion. Their purpose is plainly revealed here in scripture. They are after followers and money.
 
excubitor said:
It’s entirely appropriate to learn about the customs, laws and festivals of the Jews as these give very valuable insights into our own faith. But these observances passed away and were replaced with something far greater.

Paul makes this point irrefutably (although not simply)

2 Cor 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: 8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? 9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

What he is saying is that these old Jewish observances were certainly glorious, but they were glorious in that they brought condemnation upon those who followed them. This glory of condemnation could be glorious only to the extent that it pointed to something of far greater glory, namely the glory of righteousness which is found in the customs, laws and observances of the Christian church.

The Jewish law came by Moses the prophet. But the Christian law came by a greater prophet even then Moses; being of course Jesus Christ.

If you remember the story, the glory of Moses when his face shone such that the children of Israel could not bear to look upon him; this glory was a reflection of the glory of God which gradually faded away. But in Jesus Christ this glory never fades but is an eternal and exact representation of the glory of God.

Therefore in respecting and honouring the customs, laws and observances of the Jewish religion, we must never fail to give greater honour, greater obedience, and greater observance to those laws, customs and observance of the Christian religion which are vastly superior and will never fade away but will continue on for all eternity.

We should regard with particular disgust and abhorrence, those who entice Christians of weak faith and poor catechesis into the bondage of the old covenant law. Evildoers such as this who prey after the weak for financial gain are spoken of in the book of Jude.

My warnings of such men come from the scripture.
Titus 1:10 For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers,** specially they of the circumcision:** 11 Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre’s sake.

The men of the circumcision were a group that were trying to get Christians to be circumcised and to adopt all kinds of practices of the old Jewish religion. Their purpose is plainly revealed here in scripture. They are after followers and money.
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I must point out that Jews do not consider following the Mosaic Law as bondage. In addition, Jews are forbidden to proselytize.
 
swariffin said:
If I have time, I certainly would like to learn Hebrew and the ancient custom and the way of living of the Jews. We cannot deny the fact that Jesus was a Jew and lived among the Jews. The more we understand Hebrew and the ancient way of life of the Jews, the better we understand the bible. That is not necessarily make us becoming Jews. Surely, the RC and our early fathers of the Church has done great things to help us understand the bible. That is why we do not agree with the Sola Scriptura basis.
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Judaism is not based on sola Scriptura either. It is based on both scripture and rabbinical interpretation.
 
thomasf said:
I’ve noticed that lately there is this trend for some protestants to be very into Judaism and Israel. I have a cousin that is learning Hebrew and constantly talks about Israel and the jews. I have a former girlfriend from high school that is convinced that to be authentically christian as the first christians were, one must also practice a lot of the original jewish customs. She believes the sabbath has to be saturday and that evil roman catholics changed the day of worship to sunday in order to worship the sun god. She too is learning Hebrew, and is trying to live by some of the old testament laws. Both my cousin and this girl believe that the temple in Israel has to be rebuilt, and that the jews are the chosen people of God and have some separate kind of salvation going on for them.

Now, for the most part I don’t pay much attention to judaism or the jewish people or Israel in general. IMO, I’m Christian because I follow Christ and Christianity is the fullfillment of the jewish faith. And now that Jesus has died for us, all of those old laws and beliefs and practices have been fullfilled and don’t apply. I don’t understand the idea of bringing this stuff back or for the need for Christians to relive judaism. Peter has a pretty good discussion about this with God, and Paul reminds him about this later on. IMO that stuff is done, let’s move on to the faith Jesus left us.

The jews are God’s chosen people, and hopefully God will remember that come judgement. But mostly I don’t concern myself with that. Frankly, Jesus told us to believe in Him and that He was the way. IMO encouraging judaism over the acceptance of Christ is wrong, and not what we were charged with.

So what’s with the attention to judaism or some kind of hybrid judeo-christianity? Why are christians seeking to add this stuff into christianity, when salvation through Christ is the way? I don’t understand it.
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When I was younger, I was quite taken by what Zola Levitt presented in his tv show. He seemed to link Christianity to its Jewish roots in a very interesting way. As I grew older, I sort of drifted away from that earlier infatuation.
So, my point, I think there is a recognition amongst Christians of our unbreakable link to Judaism through scripture and Christ. But I think for most of us it is simply that: we recognize that unbreakable link, and honor the Jewish people.

Jon
 
In my experience with several of them on another forum, and my own cousin and her friends, I would honor their tendency toward scholarship and strong desire to be obedient to God’s laws. My gentle reminders that becoming Catholic would satisfy any need for a deeper relationship and humble obedience falls on deaf ears. There’s nothing humble about it, though they like to think so.

The trouble is that the underlying message is one of outright hatred for the Catholic Church and all the “evil” it has done, that Protestant beliefs are thus tainted, since they are based in the same tradition. (credit for recognizing that there would BE no Protestants if not for the Church, at least) as well.

It’s another rehash of some old WCG doctrines mixed with some newly minted “I’m more holy because what I believe is so different that it sets me apart from all other Christians yet further” Along with the SBNR, non-churched, anti-religion non-denominational types, the tendency toward greater division continues…wonder who’s behind that? Not me.
 
I have had an interest in Judaism since I was a kid. I always enjoyed reading Old Testament stories in my Children’s Bible and I think this sparked my interest in Judaism. Also, there was a cartoon called Rugrats on TV, which regularly told the stories of the Jewish people.

I have never wanted to practice the Jewish faith because I know Jesus Christ is the Messiah and that he fulfilled the Mosaic law. However, I think it is important to learn about Judaism because it sheds light on the life of Christ.
 
thomasf said:
I’ve noticed that lately there is this trend for some protestants to be very into Judaism and Israel. I have a cousin that is learning Hebrew and constantly talks about Israel and the jews. I have a former girlfriend from high school that is convinced that to be authentically christian as the first christians were, one must also practice a lot of the original jewish customs. She believes the sabbath has to be saturday and that evil roman catholics changed the day of worship to sunday in order to worship the sun god. She too is learning Hebrew, and is trying to live by some of the old testament laws. Both my cousin and this girl believe that the temple in Israel has to be rebuilt, and that the jews are the chosen people of God and have some separate kind of salvation going on for them.

Now, for the most part I don’t pay much attention to judaism or the jewish people or Israel in general. IMO, I’m Christian because I follow Christ and Christianity is the fullfillment of the jewish faith. And now that Jesus has died for us, all of those old laws and beliefs and practices have been fullfilled and don’t apply. I don’t understand the idea of bringing this stuff back or for the need for Christians to relive judaism. Peter has a pretty good discussion about this with God, and Paul reminds him about this later on. IMO that stuff is done, let’s move on to the faith Jesus left us.

The jews are God’s chosen people, and hopefully God will remember that come judgement. But mostly I don’t concern myself with that. Frankly, Jesus told us to believe in Him and that He was the way. IMO encouraging judaism over the acceptance of Christ is wrong, and not what we were charged with.

So what’s with the attention to judaism or some kind of hybrid judeo-christianity? Why are christians seeking to add this stuff into christianity, when salvation through Christ is the way? I don’t understand it.
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I agree mixing the law with grace is and has been a problem since the time of the Apostles. But I think you might be over-sensitive to all things Jewish. There is nothing dirty or wrong about knowing the hebrew language and temple or rabbinic Judaism. Many learn about these things because they care for the Jewish people and want to serve them the gospel of Jesus Christ.

After all, which gentile did God choose to show St.Peter “that God does not show favoritism but accepts men from every nation who fear him and do what is right.”?(Acts10:34-35) It was Cornelius, who served, prayed to, and knew God as “the God of Israel”. And for knowing such, Cornelius and all those who heard St.Peter speak of Jesus Christ received the Holy Spirit just like the Jews did at Pentecost.

Christians should very much pay attention to the Jewish people and Israel today with the gospel of Jesus Christ, because it leads to all peoples of the earth.
 
I have some friends that are “Messianic Jews.” The reason being, in the early days of the Church, the Christians were actually Jewish Christians. They kept the traditional celebrations and held the law, but the did so for a different reason. As Paul said in his epistles, justification comes by faith, not the law, but the law is important because it is how we know what sin is. So the early Christians kept the law not to achieve salvation, which only come through Christ, but because the laws helped them identify sin.

As for the festivals, the Apostles celebrated them and Jesus celebrated them, so the Christians did as well. My Messianic Jew friends practice and believe what they do in an attempt to get back to the ways of the very first Christians.
 
meltzerboy said:
Judaism is not based on sola Scriptura either. It is based on both scripture and rabbinical interpretation.
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I have a lot questions if you don’t mind patronizing me. I have done a lot of study on OT Judaism, but I am not very familiar with modern day Judaism. Hopefully, I can correct some of my views that are probably wrong.
  1. What is your canon of Scripture? Who formed it? And on what authority?
  2. What Rabbinical interpretation are you talking about it? Why/how is it authoritative? Where can these interpretations be found?
 
Windfish said:
I have a lot questions if you don’t mind patronizing me. I have done a lot of study on OT Judaism, but I am not very familiar with modern day Judaism. Hopefully, I can correct some of my views that are probably wrong.
  1. What is your canon of Scripture? Who formed it? And on what authority?
  2. What Rabbinical interpretation are you talking about it? Why/how is it authoritative? Where can these interpretations be found?
Click to expand...
The Tanakh (Hebrew Bible) is the canon of Scripture, which consists of 24 books from the Masoretic Text. (There are other texts, such as the Samaritan, which consist of the Dead Sea Scrolls, but these are not universally accepted in Judaism.) The first five books form the Torah, and those are the ones thought to be given to Moses directly by G-d. In addition, the Oral Law is codified in the Mishnah by topics. And the Talmud consists of rabbinical interpretations of the Law which offer majority and minority viewpoints and commentaries. Modern Torah (Orthodox) Judaism abides by all of these books, some divinely inspired and others based on rabbinical authority. Of course, some of the Jewish Law cannot be followed today due to the destruction of the Temple and other sociocultural changes. But Torah Judaism is, on the whole, not so different than it was in ancient times. Conservative Judaism and particularly Reform Judaism, on the other hand, conform less to the Law. Reform Judaism even questions the divine inspiration of the Torah. Many Orthodox Jews brand both Conservative and Reform Jews (myself) as heretics: they are still regarded as Jews, but they do not, according to the Orthodox, practice Judaism.
 
meltzerboy said:
The Tanakh (Hebrew Bible) is the canon of Scripture, which consists of 24 books from the Masoretic Text. (There are other texts, such as the Samaritan, which consist of the Dead Sea Scrolls, but these are not universally accepted in Judaism.) The first five books form the Torah, and those are the ones thought to be given to Moses directly by G-d. In addition, the Oral Law is codified in the Mishnah by topics. And the Talmud consists of rabbinical interpretations of the Law which offer majority and minority viewpoints and commentaries. Modern Torah (Orthodox) Judaism abides by all of these books, some divinely inspired and others based on rabbinical authority. Of course, some of the Jewish Law cannot be followed today due to the destruction of the Temple and other sociocultural changes. But Torah Judaism is, on the whole, not so different than it was in ancient times. Conservative Judaism and particularly Reform Judaism, on the other hand, conform less to the Law. Reform Judaism even questions the divine inspiration of the Torah. Many Orthodox Jews brand both Conservative and Reform Jews (myself) as heretics: they are still regarded as Jews, but they do not, according to the Orthodox, practice Judaism.
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Thanks for the response. Do you recommend any books that I can read with regard to modern day Judaism?
 
Saul_DelTarso said:
In my experience with several of them on another forum, and my own cousin and her friends, I would honor their tendency toward scholarship and strong desire to be obedient to God’s laws. My gentle reminders that becoming Catholic would satisfy any need for a deeper relationship and humble obedience falls on deaf ears. There’s nothing humble about it, though they like to think so.

The trouble is that the underlying message is one of outright hatred for the Catholic Church and all the “evil” it has done, that Protestant beliefs are thus tainted, since they are based in the same tradition. (credit for recognizing that there would BE no Protestants if not for the Church, at least) as well.

**It’s another rehash of some old WCG doctrines mixed with some newly minted “I’m more holy because what I believe is so different that it sets me apart from all other Christians yet further” **Along with the SBNR, non-churched, anti-religion non-denominational types, the tendency toward greater division continues…wonder who’s behind that? Not me.
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I get this feeling very much from my ex girlfriend. If anything it’s a way for her to set herself apart and set herself up as knowing something that everyone else has apparently missed, therefore she’s holier than everyone else.

I guess I look at it in almost a dispensational way. IMO there was a reason for jewish laws and customs and for living that way, at that time. And that God set it up that way for a reason, for dealing with people at that time in a certain way. But once Jesus came and fulfilled that law, and opened things up for a different way of communicating with people, that old way was done. I mean, most of the way jews of the old testament lived, and in fact their very priesthood and method of sacrifice and prayer and faith, was set up by God for an era when man couldn’t access the mercy of God, and couldn’t be forgiven for sins, and still owed God a debt for sin. IMO once Jesus came, all that was over. Temple veil split, temple was demolished 70 years later. Jesus paid our sin debt, and gave us a new way of worshiping, a new faith, a new church, for continuing salvation, accessing God’s mercy and grace. IMO while it’s nice to know jewish laws and customs, and knowing that can help understand our current covenant with God. But adding those things in to Christianity is futile. And suggesting that the jewish faith must be part of the christian faith to make christianity more complete, suggests that the new covenant, the new faith, the new church that Jesus gave us is insufficient. And that is dangerous.

And as I wrote earlier, while it’s true that the Jews are God’s first chosen people, Jesus made it pretty clear about Him being the Way to salvation. IMO it’s the same as any other religion that denies Christ. We should hope for their acceptance of Christ for their salvation. We have the truth and way of salvation, and clearly what the jews had before Christ wasn’t enough, or else He would not have had to come.
 
meltzerboy said:
Judaism is not based on sola Scriptura either. It is based on both scripture and rabbinical interpretation.
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Dear Brother,

I have very little knowledge about Jewish tradition. Do you mind if I PM you and ask you many things about Jewish culture, especially Judaism?
 
Windfish said:
I have a lot questions if you don’t mind patronizing me. I have done a lot of study on OT Judaism, but I am not very familiar with modern day Judaism. Hopefully, I can correct some of my views that are probably wrong.
  1. What is your canon of Scripture? Who formed it? And on what authority?
  2. What Rabbinical interpretation are you talking about it? Why/how is it authoritative? Where can these interpretations be found?
Click to expand...
Dear Brother,

I am in worse position compared to you. Do you mind if I PM you and ask something about what you have learnt about Judaism? It will be interesting to learn one thing from at least 2 different perspectives. You know, we in Indonesia are bombarded with how bad the Jews are, especially we are a muslim majority country. Some Christian fanatics also tell me how horrible the Jews were during the time of Jesus. I share the view about the Jewish people with our late John Paul II. I agree with him, but don’t fully understand why. It is a good opportunity to have Jewish in this forum, and Catholics like you.
 
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