Christmas question.

[catholicsaint]

Hellow everyone !

My friend was telling me that some Christans don’t celebrate or go to church on Christmas. And that Christmas is no were mentioned in the Bible as a holy date for us Christans to celebrate. My friend told me that Easter and Christmas are not metioned in the Holy Bible to observe or celebrate and that God put certain times to celebrate and observe but Christmas and easter are not the ones. So my question is does God want us to celebrate Christmas and would you think Jesus the son and God the father would be happy with our Christmas celebration and us christans observering Christmas as the birth of our saviour. My friend told me that the 25th of December is not even the correct date of jesus Christs birthday. I was shocked to hear this ! Do we give presents and have a Christmas dinnear and put up decorations in respect and gratitude to our lord Jesus Christ or is there something iam missing. btw, my friend is a atheist so I don’t really listen to much to her but it kind of made me think a little. I hope some good roman catholic or Christan can put me clear on this subject please.

 

[zz912]

The Bible isn’t an instruction manual for how to worship. It is a collection of 73 books which each have a specific purpose and message. Using the Bible as a worship manual is like using a cookbook to learn math, there may be some things you can learn about math from the cookbook, but that isn’t its purpose.

The Bible tells us to listen to the Church, which has authority over such matters.

As to the date for Christmas, there are multiple avenues to indicate Dec 25. First, the service John the Baptists’ father performs in the Temple may be the annual service at Yom Kippur, which is usually in late Sept. So Elizabeth gets pregnant, then six months later is the Annunciation, late Mar. So nine mos later, late Dec.

Also, Jewish custom believed prophets died on the day they were conceived, and with Passover in late Mar, early Apr, that would make Dec His birth.

Those who claim the date is wrong base it on pure speculation.

 

[tvknight415]

A couple of things to consider.

No, we don’t know the exact date that Christ was born. They didn’t have all of the awesome record keeping we do today. In fact, the only birth date that I can recall from the Bible is Adam, which was Day 6. But, Christians in the west have traditionally celebrated Christ’s birth on Dec. 25. Seems as good a day as any to me, since we don’t know when. How many people don’t celebrate their birthday on their actual birthday (let’s do something this weekend, or celebrate it when the whole family can make it, because Uncle Tommy won’t have military leave until two months later or Joey won’t be home from college until break)? The eastern church celebrates it Jan 6, I believe.

As to whether or not celebrating Christ’s birth is in the Bible, so what if it isn’t? The Bible is not an 'Encyclopedia Christiania" (although a lot of people want it to be). The 4 gospels were written to describe the life and ministry of Christ, and the rest of the New Testament writings were written to specific persons/groups to address specific issues. It may be that the first Christians didn’t mark his birth with anything special, or maybe they did but it wasn’t a specific topic addressed (since turning away from sin and warning about false teachers was likely more important then reminding people to cut a Lebanon cedar and put it in their house on Dec. 25). If the earliest Christians didn’t decide to throw a party to celebrate Christ’s birth until 237 AD or whenever, doesn’t matter to me - it’s still worth celebrating.

As to whether God would like how we celebrate Christmas, I’m guessing he’s pretty disappointed in what it has become; over-commercialized with the original reason for having a celebration, to remember Christ’s birth, being downplayed or forgotten about entirely. Think about this; if you invite friends & family over to celebrate your child’s birthday and all they do is sit down in the rec room playing on a Playstation or glued to the television watching football, and not really acknowledging your child or that it is his birthday, how would you feel (I’d be annoyed to say the least).

And, as to whether some Christians choose to celebrate it or not depends a lot on how they view the Bible - if they view it as an Encyclopedia Christiania, then they may not. I think there are a few fringe Protestant groups that don’t. And, others who don’t celebrate with the usual big feasts and presents under the tree, and focus on reflecting on Christ and his birth, might not appear to either (since they’ve rejected the trappings we associate with the season).

Ultimately, I wouldn’t worry about any of your friend’s arguments. This time of year, we as Christians choose to celebrate that approximately 2000 years ago, God sent his only begotten son into the world, who was conceived through his power, and born to a virgin in Bethlehem, so that he could become the perfect sacrifice to atone for our sins. That’s worth celebrating, whether we do it Dec 25, Jan 6, or whenever.

 

[Arizona_Mike]

Hellow everyone !

My friend was telling me that some Christans don’t celebrate or go to church on Christmas. And that Christmas is no were mentioned in the Bible as a holy date for us Christans to celebrate.

And yet the Magi provided gifts to the Christ Child and celebrated his birth. Ask your friend where in the Bible that celebration was condemned.

My friend told me that Easter and Christmas are not metioned in the Holy Bible to observe or celebrate and that God put certain times to celebrate and observe but Christmas and easter are not the ones.

Tell your friend that lots of Christian practices are not mentioned in the Bible. Pulpits, use of pagan names for days and months in church bulletins, Powerpoints in church, the order of worship, the table of contents and order of canon in the Bible, use of organs, guitars, electrical guitars, and other instruments in church, youth pastors, singing, altar calls, televised services, radio services, use of the Internet for evangelization, “worship teams,” Mozart’s music, Bible colleges, seminaries, Sunday Schools, celebrating “Reformation Day” on October 31, having a national flag inside of a church, pews, Biblical chapters and verses (added in 1227 and 1551 A.D., respectively), the varying systems of numbering and enumerating the “Ten Commandments,” and lots else. We find lots of ways to celebrate the Incarnation of Christ. Ask your friend why he/she wants Christians to practice a pinched, mean, stripped-down, Bauhaus version of Christianity? If he/she is not a Christian, why does he/she care how Christians celebrate? How weird is* that*?

So my question is does God want us to celebrate Christmas and would you think Jesus the son and God the father would be happy with our Christmas celebration and us christans observering Christmas as the birth of our saviour.

Yes. God’s Mystical Body on Earth, the Church that Christ Himself established, i.e. the one Holy, Roman, Catholic, and Apostolic Church celebrates the Feast of the Nativity on December 25.

My friend told me that the 25th of December is not even the correct date of jesus Christs birthday. I was shocked to hear this !

Why? If you don’t know the date of birth for someone whose date of birth was not recorded, why should you have a problem with celebrating it on a day and time of year that seems appropriate - such as when the days begin to grow longer and warmth returns to the earth.

That’s even assuming December 25 is NOT the correct day. It may have been. St. Augustine thought so, and that God chose that date to be conceived for its symbolic importance. The early Christian’s thought so, based on the Jewish belief that a great man will be born and die on the same date. As March 25 was reckoned to be the date of the Crucifixion, and as Christ’s Conception was thought to be the miracle that began the Incarnation, a date 9 months back from that puts us right at about December 25. We also have the dating from internal evidence in the Bible - we know the date and time Zecheriah’s priestly line offered sacrifices in the temple, and calculating forward from that we can know approximately that Jesus was born in late December. Makes sense.

Do we give presents and have a Christmas dinnear and put up decorations in respect and gratitude to our lord Jesus Christ or is there something iam missing.

That should be the reason you do so. Attending Mass should also be part of that celebration.

btw, my friend is a atheist so I don’t really listen to much to her but it kind of made me think a little.

Consider the source. Someone who is wrong in their initial premises is likely to be wrong in their conclusions.

I hope you and your family have a wonderful and happy Christmas.

 

[tabycat]

Hellow everyone !

My friend was telling me that some Christans don’t celebrate or go to church on Christmas. And that Christmas is no were mentioned in the Bible as a holy date for us Christans to celebrate. My friend told me that Easter and Christmas are not metioned in the Holy Bible to observe or celebrate and that God put certain times to celebrate and observe but Christmas and easter are not the ones. So my question is does God want us to celebrate Christmas and would you think Jesus the son and God the father would be happy with our Christmas celebration and us christans observering Christmas as the birth of our saviour. My friend told me that the 25th of December is not even the correct date of jesus Christs birthday. I was shocked to hear this ! Do we give presents and have a Christmas dinnear and put up decorations in respect and gratitude to our lord Jesus Christ or is there something iam missing. btw, my friend is a atheist so I don’t really listen to much to her but it kind of made me think a little. I hope some good roman catholic or Christan can put me clear on this subject please.

Some celebate the Birth of Jesus on Dec. 25 in church and give gifts on another date between Dec. 6 and Jan. 6.

 

[Dorothy]

The wondrous fact of the Incarnation of Jesus Christ into our world is enough to cause us to celebrate that every day with our lives by following Him. He is the Greatest Gift of all – God Himself coming to show us the Way to Him!

We need to pray for the atheists who do not know that, and show them the love of Jesus without allowing them to walk all over us.

 

[thegreatseeker]

The stories you hear are from JW’s.(Jehovah witness) They believe Christmas to be pagan in origin. Even if they are the truth, and Dec 25 was a pagan Holiday it was a BIG holiday to the pagon God. As per them they say Catholics took the Pagan holiday and made it a Christmas holiday to stop the festivity’s to the God Yole. JW’s believe that day belongs to the god yule and Catholics where wrong in using that day for the day is corrupt and wicked. I do not see anything wrong with taking a god down and destroying it and mocking it with Jesus. But they sure do. That is why you hear stories about Christmas should not be celebrated. My opinion on the matter is if Catholics did not do what they did, Christ might not even be around today and Yule would be, for people like to party. Catholics said it would be nice to celebrate christs birth, and tada. No one really knows his birth.

 

[Hieronymi]

My friend told me that the 25th of December is not even the correct date of jesus Christs birthday.I was shocked to hear this !

In addition to the valuable answers above:

From the front page of Catholic Answers:
Why December 25? By Jon Sorensen -December 16, 2013

Also, type “Christmas” in the search box on the CA front page.

Merry Chistmas!

 

[Avila123]

Little to add especial as Hieronymi gave an excellent link.

Here in the UK, I find all the argument and dingdong about Christmas day laughable because no one makes a huge fuss about the fact that traditionally the monarch has 2 birthdays. Our current Queen was born on 21 April but her official birthday is a Saturday in June. King Edward VII was born in November but celebrated his birthday in May or June.

Just a side note on birthdays.

 

[Todd977]

Although it is true that God commanded the Jews to observe certain holy days, such as Passover, to commemorate their miraculous deliverance from slavery in Egypt, there is nothing in the Law of Moses that prohibited the Jews from adding new annual holy days to their calendar to commemorate new acts of divine intervention in their history. For instance, they added the holy day of Purim to their calendar in the days of Esther and Chanukah (Hanukkah) in the days of the Maccabees. So, your friend’s notion that only those holy days commanded by God should be celebrated and no others has no merit.

As Christians, we rightly regard the birth of Jesus Christ as an important act of divine intervention into human history and worthy of commemoration in the annual holy day of Christmas. The same goes for commemorating the resurrection of Jesus Christ with the annual holy day of Easter.

As to whether or not Christians also must celebrate the Jewish holy days commanded by God in the Old Testament, the answer is No. New Covenant Christians are not obliged to observe any of the ceremonial aspects of the Old Covenant, such as circumcision, kosher food laws, or Jewish holy days. See Acts 15:1-35. As St. Paul says, “Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a sabbath.” (Colossians 2:16)

 

[Yerusalyim]

Hellow everyone !

My friend was telling me that some Christans don’t celebrate or go to church on Christmas. And that Christmas is no were mentioned in the Bible as a holy date for us Christans to celebrate. My friend told me that Easter and Christmas are not metioned in the Holy Bible to observe or celebrate and that God put certain times to celebrate and observe but Christmas and easter are not the ones. So my question is does God want us to celebrate Christmas and would you think Jesus the son and God the father would be happy with our Christmas celebration and us christans observering Christmas as the birth of our saviour. My friend told me that the 25th of December is not even the correct date of jesus Christs birthday. I was shocked to hear this ! Do we give presents and have a Christmas dinnear and put up decorations in respect and gratitude to our lord Jesus Christ or is there something iam missing. btw, my friend is a atheist so I don’t really listen to much to her but it kind of made me think a little. I hope some good roman catholic or Christan can put me clear on this subject please.

While it is true that we don’t know for sure what day Jesus was born on the pious tradition was long December 25th. Based on some evidence there were those that believed Jesus died on March 25th (see the link provided in a post above mine). Some ancients believed that famous and important people died on the day they were conceived. Ergo, counting backwards from March 25th we reach December 25th as the birth date of Jesus. I don’t put a lot of stock in that theory but it explains why it was chosen.

 

[fred_conty]

H.Crocker III in his book, Triump: The Power and the Glory of the Catholic Church, has this to say.

“Constantine codified Christian practice from the time of the Apostles and made Sunday–the day Christ rose from the dead–the day of rest, appropriating the day from Roman sun worshipers, of whom he had been one. He took the pagan Saturnalia and made it the official date for the celebration of Christmas.” P 51

Merry Christmas everyone.

 

[Hieronymi]

"Constantine codified Christian practice from the time of the Apostles and made Sunday–the day Christ rose from the dead–the day of rest, appropriating the day from Roman sun worshipers…

**
Acts 20:7** (RSVCE)
§. On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul talked with them, intending to depart on the morrow; and he prolonged his speech until midnight. (Cf. Mt 28:1; Mk 16:2; Lk 24:1; Jn 20:1)

§. The Lord’s day, the day of Resurrection, the day of Christians, is our day. It is called the Lord’s day because on it the Lord rose victorious to the Father. If pagans call it the “day of the sun,” we willingly agree, for today the light of the world is raised, today is revealed the sun of justice with healing in his rays. St. Jerome, Pasch.: CCL 78, 550.

CCC references to the Lord’s Day: 349, 2174, 2175, 2191

He took the pagan Saturnalia and made it the official date for the celebration of Christmas."

§. “If the suggestion were correct, one would expect to find at least a single reference by early Christians to support it. Instead we find scores of quotations from Church Fathers indicating a desire to distance themselves from pagan religions.”

From the front page of ** Catholic Answers**:

Why December 25?
by Jon Sorensen
December 16, 2013

 

[ThinkingSapien]

My friend was telling me that some Christans don’t celebrate or go to church on Christmas. And that Christmas is no were mentioned in the Bible as a holy date for us Christans to celebrate.

It’s not, but I would expect arguments against going by scription only and references to tradition in response to that. But if one wanted to celebrate the birth of Christ on some arbitrary day of the year then is there some argument against that? I don’t think so.

My friend told me that Easter and Christmas are not metioned in the Holy Bible to observe or celebrate and that God put certain times to celebrate and observe but Christmas and easter are not the ones.

The name “Easter” is derived from a name for a holiday from some other religion (I think this other religion is considered pagan). Because of that some forms of Christianity do not call it easter. The Jehovah’s Witnesses for example celebrate this, but don’t call it easter.

 

[Gorgias]

It’s not, but I would expect arguments against going by scription only and references to tradition in response to that. But if one wanted to celebrate the birth of Christ on some arbitrary day of the year then is there some argument against that? I don’t think so.

If one’s faith community celebrates Christmas on December 25, and mandates that the community gathers to celebrate the Nativity on that day, then yeah, even if a person decides that he’ll have a Nativity party on Groundhog Day, he’d still be bound to celebrate the Nativity with his faith community on 12/25.

The name “Easter” is derived from a name for a holiday from some other religion (I think this other religion is considered pagan). Because of that some forms of Christianity do not call it easter. The Jehovah’s Witnesses for example celebrate this, but don’t call it easter.

And yet, the majority of the world doesn’t call it ‘Easter’ – that’s a word that has its roots in Germanic / Old English origins. For most of the world, it carries the name that it’s had since the birth of the Church: Pascha.

So, even if you want to make the claim that English-speaking peoples call it by a name that originated in pagan usage (and that claim, itself, is debatable), it’s still a term that, when associated with the celebration of the Resurrection, still does not pre-date the use of the term 'Pascha."

 

[PJM]

=catholicsaint;11520927]Hellow everyone !

My friend was telling me that some Christans don’t celebrate or go to church on Christmas. And that Christmas is no were mentioned in the Bible as a holy date for us Christans to celebrate. My friend told me that Easter and Christmas are not metioned in the Holy Bible to observe or celebrate and that God put certain times to celebrate and observe but Christmas and easter are not the ones. So my question is does God want us to celebrate Christmas and would you think Jesus the son and God the father would be happy with our Christmas celebration and us christans observering Christmas as the birth of our saviour. My friend told me that the 25th of December is not even the correct date of jesus Christs birthday. I was shocked to hear this ! Do we give presents and have a Christmas dinnear and put up decorations in respect and gratitude to our lord Jesus Christ or is there something iam missing. btw, my friend is a atheist so I don’t really listen to much to her but it kind of made me think a little. I hope some good roman catholic or Christan can put me clear on this subject please.

PLEASE TAKE MY REPLY AS NOT A REBUKE OF YOU’RE FRIEND

The terms “bible, catholic, protestant, theology,” and MUCH more are also NOT in the bible. So are they not realities; truth?

**Have you and you’re friend READ the past 2 verses in John 20 &21 **

What you’r friend and a GREAT many Protestants [means to PROTEST!] are missing is this:

God is One

One God can and does HAVE just one Faith Eph. 4: 4-8

And God in the OT had just One Chosen people: the Jews Exo. 6:7

And Christ following this set Tradition has only One Church that he guides, guards, protects and leads.

Mt. 16:18-19 “And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven”

SINGULAR.

Now ask you’re friend where in the bible God EVER [even one time] permitted, tollerated, desired, more than One God; One Faith and One Church?

Because they refuse to believe the Powers and authority of the key’s GIVEN by God to Peter; they then get a GREAT many other things WRONG as well

God Bless you! & Your friend:thumbsup:
Patrick

 

[Arizona_Mike]

H.Crocker III in his book, Triump: The Power and the Glory of the Catholic Church, has this to say.

“Constantine codified Christian practice from the time of the Apostles and made Sunday–the day Christ rose from the dead–the day of rest, appropriating the day from Roman sun worshipers, of whom he had been one. He took the pagan Saturnalia and made it the official date for the celebration of Christmas.” P 51

Merry Christmas everyone.

Crocker is a good writer, generally - he’s a Catholic convert from Anglicanism - but he made a mistake on this one. Saturnalia (Dec 23 - 17) and Christmas (December 25) were on different dates. There’s also no evidence Constantine had anything to do with picking the date to celebrate Christmas (although he had a strong interest in suppressing all pagan celebrations as he consolidated his power base, and would have been interested in the controversy over the true date for Jesus’ birth), as December 25 was named as the date of Christ’s birthday by Africanus in his Chronographiæ (AD 221), long before Constantine (Emperor from 306 to 337) and Nicaea. Different regions celebrated the birth on different dates (we have evidence of this as far back as 200 AD, until Pope Julian looked at the arguments, research and theology and designated December 25 as the official date.

 

[fred_conty]

Arizona,
Thanks for the heads up. Is there any more queezy statements to watch for, just of hand?

 

[Arizona_Mike]

Arizona,
Thanks for the heads up. Is there any more queezy statements to watch for, just of hand?

I haven’t read his book, I’m just going off the fact that it received generally good reviews in the Catholic media. It doesn’t sound like his research was accurate in the one section that was quoted. I’ll probably pick up a copy from the library and read it. (Pretty backed up on my “to-read” shelf, though!)

 

[Judas_Thaddeus]

My friend was telling me that some Christans don’t celebrate or go to church on Christmas.

Scrooge

And that Christmas is no were mentioned in the Bible as a holy date for us Christans to celebrate.

TECHNICALLY true, but that is a lame argument.

So my question is does God want us to celebrate Christmas and would you think Jesus the son and God the father would be happy with our Christmas celebration and us christans observering Christmas as the birth of our saviour.

Is the birth of our Lord not worth celebrating? Forgive me, but your friend sounds odd.

My friend told me that the 25th of December is not even the correct date of jesus Christs birthday. I was shocked to hear this !

That is accurate, I believe. We don’t REALLY know when Jesus was born, the exact date, so we adopted
the time of the Winter Solstice as the day on which to celebrate the birth of our Lord, because again: WE
DO NOT KNOW THE EXACT DATE!!! A careful reading of the Gospel, though, can tell us that Jesus was
actually born likely in the Summer, but that’s no good reason to knock down Christmas.

Do we give presents and have a Christmas dinnear and put up decorations in respect and gratitude to our lord Jesus Christ or is there something iam missing. btw, my friend is a atheist so I don’t really listen to much to her but it kind of made me think a little. I hope some good roman catholic or Christan can put me clear on this subject please.

Atheist, that explains it all. Sure explains the weak arguments, huh?
Many atheists are so pessimistic towards Christianity, as Christians
are likewise often pessimistic towards atheists, that the non-believer
will resort to any and all arguments, be they good or bad.