Christopher Colombus' birth certificate

[james_dillaplai]

Roughly what percentage of 15th-Century Jewish parents named their sons Christopher?
Columbus myths drive me up the wall anyway. Like the chestnut that they (I don’t know who) “laughed at him for saying the world was round but he proved it by sailing around the world”. No, most people in Europe had no idea he existed, and no one doubted the world is round, and even if they had he didn’t prove it is because he didn’t sail around the world. He sailed about 1/12th of the distance around the world.

They say his real name was Cristof Colon (I think. I’m just relaying the info they have, I dont believe this as they didnt put any evidence for it.)

 

[james_dillaplai]

Well, you may not sleep well tonight… The “looney-tunes” are still out there…in the 21st Century: theflatearthsociety.org/

On that point I am sure you are correct. If you look closely at the dimensions of the three boats in his fleet…

Dimensions of the Nina, Pinta, and Santa Maria:

Nina = 67 feet long, 21 feet wide

Pinta = 70 feet long, 22 feet wide

Santa Maria = 77 feet long, 26 feet wide

These boats aren’t particularly “large”…and considering the “crew sizes”: The Santa Maria had 40 men, the Nina 20 and the Pinta 26… which means the crew had to literally live in each others faces for the entire journey. Then add in the fact that Columbus provisioned the ship for a one year voyage…

I live on a 44’ trawler…with my wife…and at times it feels crowded (Psst…don’t tell her I said that…ok?) I can tell you if we have 5 or 6 guests over…it can get crowded, so having 22 people on a boat this size would drive me over the edge. I can well imagine that the trip would have been slightly “stressful”. Here is some interesting information about the boats and the trip:
millersville.edu/~columbus/papers/oestereich-j.html

I got a laugh at the Flat Earth Society, didnt think that anyone still believed that. Well anyone that had even a proper education.

 

[RobHom]

Well if I remember right, the Jesuits were formed by Saint Ignatius Loyola after the reformation as a counter-reformation to teach the faithful of the Catholic Church about what it teaches. So, many anti-Catholic protestants hate the Jesuits and what they stand for. If I am wrong wrong about anything please feel free to correct me.

You are partly correct. The Society of Jesus was founded in September of 1540.

From here: newadvent.org/cathen/14081a.htm

*The Society was not founded with the avowed intention of opposing Protestantism. Neither the papal letters of approbation nor the Constitutions of the order mention this as the object of the new foundation. When Ignatius began to devote himself to the service of the Church, he had probably not even heard of the names of the Protestant Reformers. His early plan was rather the conversion of Mohammedans, an idea which, a few decades after the final triumph of the Christians over the Moors in Spain, must have strongly appealed to the chivalrous Spaniards. *

I think that the reason that “anti-Catholic’s” dislike Jesuits even to the point of hatred…is because “Jesuits” are pretty “hardcore” and they know their Scripture…and they don’t lose debates on religion. I have known a few…and they are the Catholic equivalent of Rangers/Seals/SWAT/etc… and they don’t always turn the other cheek…

 

[jimmy]

I was reading a Protestant book (by the A.C.E. organization, which makes a home-school workbook for people.) today and I saw that they said that the Jesuits destroyed Christopher Columbus’ birth certificate for no apparent reason. They gave no further information. Does anyone know if this is true if so, why did they?

Considering that Columbus died in 1506. At that time St. Ignatius, the founder of the Jesuits, was only 15 years old. No one gathered around him until the 1520’s. The first followers of St. Ignatius didn’t take vows until 1534. And they weren’t officially recognized until 1536.

newadvent.org/cathen/07639c.htm

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Columbus

So the book you mention has some pretty outstanding claims. Imagine that, the Jesuits had a time machine.

 

[james_dillaplai]

Oh, good heavens! I always hated the A.C.E. system (though I learned a great deal from their old geometry and art curricula, used without the straightjacket of the system), and here’s more reason to!

That one sentence sums up the incoherent attitude of fundamentalists to church history better than anything I know.

Edwin

I never thought id meet someon who had done the A.C.E. system outside of one of their conventions.

 

[ralphinal]

Considering that Columbus died in 1506. At that time St. Ignatius, the founder of the Jesuits, was only 15 years old. No one gathered around him until the 1520’s. The first followers of St. Ignatius didn’t take vows until 1534. And they weren’t officially recognized until 1536.

newadvent.org/cathen/07639c.htm

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Columbus

So the book you mention has some pretty outstanding claims. Imagine that, the Jesuits had a time machine.

Dude, keep it down. If they find out about the t.m. we are al in trouble. They can take it, go back, and prove that St. Peter was a rabbit…

 

[RobHom]

They say his real name was Cristof Colon (I think. I’m just relaying the info they have, I dont believe this as they didnt put any evidence for it.)

Ummm, they are partly right. His actual given name at birth was Cristoforo Colombo Cristobal Colon. In that part of the world…names are rather long…and include other family names.

 

[RobHom]

I got a laugh at the Flat Earth Society, didnt think that anyone still believed that. Well anyone that had even a proper education.

Well, have I got news for you my young friend!!

As you venture further and further out into the world…you will see, meet and discover all kinds of “whackos”…some who actually do wear “tinfoil hats” to keep the “aliens” from reading their thoughts will be included among the “special ones”…

 

[RobHom]

Dude, keep it down. If they find out about the t.m. we are al in trouble. They can take it, go back, and prove that St. Peter was a rabbit…

**OH NO!!! He didn’t blow our cover on the time machine did he??? Tell me it isn’t so!!! **

 

[ralphinal]

**OH NO!!! He didn’t blow our cover on the time machine did he??? Tell me it isn’t so!!! **

I think if we just act like it was a joke. Sometimes the Jesuit mind trick works on non-Catholics.

This is not the time machine you are looking for.

 

[RobHom]

I think if we just act like it was a joke. Sometimes the Jesuit mind trick works on non-Catholics.

This is not the time machine you are looking for.

OK, thats gonna be my story, and I’m stickin’ to it!!

 

[james_dillaplai]

You should take the book with a large dose of salt. Ipecac might be more appropriate though… The Knights Templar were disbanded by Papal Bull in March of 1312. You can read an accurate history of the Knights Templar here: newadvent.org/cathen/14493a.htm

The Knights Templar have been the subject of many “conspiracy” theories…but then that is the nature of anyone who desires to cast aspersions on another… “Create a conspiracy”…and let the evil in man’s mind do the rest…

James, while you may think that you are “socially inept”… at this point in your life…DO NOT SWEAT THE SMALL STUFF!! There are far more important things in life than a bunch of “friends”. To my minds eye…a “Friend” is someone who would give their life to protect yours. Anyone else is but a “passing acquaintance”.

Insofar as “socially inept people”…some of my acquaintances in school…over 40 years ago…would be the people who were somewhat socially inept. I thought they were OK, and they were certainly more genuine as people than the “social climbers” and “popularity players”… and what is truly interesting is that I have looked up some of those people…both groups…and what I found was that “the socially inept” turned out to be the most successful, whereas the “in-crowd” ended up for the most part at the bottom of the heap of life.

If you are inclined to accept a piece of advice… Worry not about how many friends you have now…they will be long forgotten withing a year or so after graduating high school…and something of the same will happen after graduating college…just spend your efforts getting a good education… In other words: Take care of the truly important things, and don’t sweat the small stuff…

I’ll Gladly accept that advice and thank you for it.

 

[RobHom]

I’ll Gladly accept that advice and thank you for it.

Your welcome!!

 

[SANxJONERO]

Some people say he was Jewish/Portuguese & that he was probably born in a place called Cuba in Portugal. They say his birth name was most likely Salvador Fernandes Zarco & there’s a lot of info that backs up things being said about the man. Either way I believe the man was a fraud, so I don’t doubt some things said about him.

 

[peary]

Some people say he was Jewish/Portuguese & that he was probably born in a place called Cuba in Portugal. They say his birth name was most likely Salvador Fernandes Zarco & there’s a lot of info that backs up things being said about the man. Either way I believe the man was a fraud, so I don’t doubt some things said about him.

It’s incredible that anyone could even believe the total nonsense that you’ve posted.

He was born Crisoforo Colombo on October 5, 1436 in the Domican church of San Stefano in Genoa. How do we know? HIS BAPTISM IS RECORDED THERE!! This is just normal information, and you could have saved yourself a lot of time by just contacting the Congress of Italian American Organizations (CIAO). When he worked in Spain for the King and Queen, his name was Cristobal Colon in Spanish (translated from the Italian) and when he lived in Portugal he went under the Portuguese name of Cristovao Colombo.

Columbus’s father was Domenico Colombo, a wool weaver. His mother was Suzanna Fontanarossa, the daughter of a wool weaver. The eldest of five children, Christopher had three brothers—Bartholomew, Giovanni Pellegrino, and Giacomo—and one sister, Bianchinetta. The entire family moved to the nearby port city of Savona, west of Genoa, in 1470. He also attended the University at Pavia. Why and how? BECAUSE HE BELONGED TO A GUILD!

I find any other ‘alternative’ to the authentic life of Columbus to be reprehensible and rightly belongs to urban legend or to be ignored. Mostly, the alternatives are an indirect attack of bigotry against Italians and I think people who are like that need to be rejected because you can’t discuss things rationally with them. They are like the people who continue to believe that our government was in back of the 9/11 events.

Why don’t you read the biography of the one who was closest to him - his son? His son traveled several times with him across the Atlantic to the New World. Though they did not have the best or relationships, I consider the son’s testimony as closest to the truth.

 

[Abba]

It is absolutely ridiculous to claim that Christopher Columbus was Jewish. I am amazed with the things people including teachers are coming up with and teaching our children. They should do research of their own!!!

I think all these attacks on Christopher Columbus started when people with particular interests started to claim that some northern Europeans were the ones to discover the New World.

CHRISTOPHER COLUMBUS WAS ONE OF THE MOST FAITHFUL CATHOLICSIN THE HISTORY OF OUR CHURCH.

THE FIRST APPARITION OF OUR BLESSED MOTHER MARY IN THE NEW WORLD OCCURRED IN THE PRESENCE OF CHRISTOPHER COLUMBUS IN EL SANTO CERRO.

WHEN CHIRISTOPHER (NOTE HIS NAME) COLUMBUS LEFT ON HIS JOURNEY HE COMMENDED HIMSELF AND HIS CREW AND JOURNEY TO OUR BLESSED MOTHER MARY.

HE NAMED ONE OF THE SHIPS ‘LA SANTA MARIA’ THAT IS ‘SAINT MARY’.

 

[Hesychios]

What bothers me more than anything is that this is in a “textbook” used by some homeschoolers. It just shows the potential risks of having people who do not know anything about a subject teaching it with materials that are not legitimate texts.

Wow, you are so right.

 

[Hesychios]

This has been a very entertaining thread.

I am kinda sorta glad it was resurrected

 

[peary]

The ‘new’ world for Europeans were the two continents stuck in the middle that prohibited them from finding a quicker way to the Orient.In this case, Columbus certainly DID ‘discover’ this area for Europe. The Vikings were unsuccessful; otherwise, they would have had lasting settlements and would have taught the indigenous peoples their language. If you want to get technical about it, then Europe shouldn’t be referred to as the ‘old’ world since its populations derived from other areas before settling there.

Christopher Columbus certainly ‘discovered’ the Americas which were successfully settled by the Spanish. That’s just basic history!

 

[Hesychios]

He was born Crisoforo Colombo on October 5, 1436 in the Domican church of San Stefano in Genoa. How do we know? HIS BAPTISM IS RECORDED THERE!! This is just normal information, and you could have saved yourself a lot of time by just contacting the Congress of Italian American Organizations (CIAO). When he worked in Spain for the King and Queen, his name was Cristobal Colon in Spanish (translated from the Italian) and when he lived in Portugal he went under the Portuguese name of Cristovao Colombo.

Columbus’s father was Domenico Colombo, a wool weaver. His mother was Suzanna Fontanarossa, the daughter of a wool weaver. The eldest of five children, Christopher had three brothers—Bartholomew, Giovanni Pellegrino, and Giacomo—and one sister, Bianchinetta. The entire family moved to the nearby port city of Savona, west of Genoa, in 1470. He also attended the University at Pavia. Why and how? BECAUSE HE BELONGED TO A GUILD!

Thank you for a sensible factual post.

I was amazed by how many people ignored the fact that he was from Italy, a very civilized and cultured place.

In the scale of historical time this was not so very long ago after all. Around here in northern China I can walk into ordinary common buildings that have been in continual use since before the man was born any day of the week. In Genoa there is a house standing that has been identified as the one he was most likely born in.

Yes, five hundred years is tough on boats, but not necessarily on solid buildings and the secured and bound dry records contained in them.

Another thing is that he may, like many Europeans, have had a proportion of Jewish ancestry. It is very common but one is unlikely to know about it if it goes back too far into the past. In fact, it would have been possible for both king Ferdinand and queen Isabella to have had some Jewish ancestry. Europeans are so mixed that many people would have Hun, Egyptian, Berber, Persion and Phoenician ancestry too, besides the Greeks, Celts and Goths. Big deal