Chuck Smith, Calvary Chapel, and Our Lady of Guadalupe

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I try not to pay much attention to the Calvary Chapel crowd, but I came across something recently that kind of offended me, especially in light of yesterday being the feast of Our Lady of Guadalupe.

catholicknight.blogspot.com/2010/12/december-vacation-supplemental.html

It talks about how Chuck Smith, founder of the Calvary Chapel movement was claiming Our Lady of Guadalupe was nothing more than a deception of the devil. Now, as I understand this, the Church has determined this to be worthy of belief. Why would someone, without any evidence to back up the claim, malign Our Lady as well as our Catholic faith? Mr. Smith is the head of a rather large Protestant denomination. Perhaps it bothers me so much because someone I care about attends services at Calvary Chapel. Nonetheless, I think this was over the top.
Any thoughts?
 
CC is a fundamentalist ‘denomination’ known for its rabid anti-Catholicism, no surprise there.
Smith better be careful though. I beleive Jesus said something about attributing the things of God to the Devil. Seems to me it had pretty dire consequences…
 
IMO, Smith is crazy. I mean, certifiable.
He put out several videos some years ago, all of them equally weird, & I pick them out of the “free” box at yard sales. One of them was the most confused mishmash of nonsense that I have ever heard about the Virgin Mary.
This last did indeed attack Our Lady of Guadeloupe. Its main "source material was Alexander Hislop & Co, with additions from what he called “other appearances of Mary”. Some were from psychics. Some were from claimed apparitions that a modicum of research showed me were, to a one, condemned by the Catholic Church.(The internet is your:thumbsup: friend!!)
I wish I could line the cat box with VHS tapes; it seems as thought that might be the only earthly GOOD use for the miserable things.

Avoid Calvary Chapel. They delight in scare tactics & sowing discord amongst Christians.
 
Probably upwards of 75 percent of Calvary Chapel members (including large numbers of Hispanics) are ex-Catholics, proselytized away from the Church because they were ignorant of their Faith. Smith has a vested interest in keeping them misinformed and hateful of all things Catholic.

Smith is buttering his own toast by attacking a revered symbol of the Catholic Faith, so shame on him. We’re guilty of not making sure our people know the Faith well enough not to be misled. Shame on us.
 
JustaServant said:
CC is a fundamentalist ‘denomination’ known for its rabid anti-Catholicism, no surprise there.
Smith better be careful though. I beleive Jesus said something about attributing the things of God to the Devil. Seems to me it had pretty dire consequences…
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Agreed, my friend. Totally agreed.
The hate the man spews seems to have blinded him to the Scriptures he claims to follow.
My 2 cents.
 
Ron_Obvious said:
I try not to pay much attention to the Calvary Chapel crowd, but I came across something recently that kind of offended me, especially in light of yesterday being the feast of Our Lady of Guadalupe.
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Don’t be offended.

They nailed our savior to a tree, killed his followers, hung our first Pope upside down, and it doesn’t stop today. They are stabbing Catholic nuns in India to this day. But God can use it for good. catholic.org/international/international_story.php?id=36237

In a world which denies the existence of God, why should we be surprised that some only accept half of what God has revealed to us? Why should we be surprised when some accept Jesus Christ but not his Holy Mother?

It doesn’t offend me. I expect it to happen and am surprised that it doesn’t happen more.

-Tim-
 
If Our Lady of Guadalupe was of Satan then Satan sure messed things up considering the millions who became Christians.
In a few years Smith and his church will pass
 
Ron_Obvious said:
I try not to pay much attention to the Calvary Chapel crowd, but I came across something recently that kind of offended me, especially in light of yesterday being the feast of Our Lady of Guadalupe.

catholicknight.blogspot.com/2010/12/december-vacation-supplemental.html

It talks about how Chuck Smith, founder of the Calvary Chapel movement was claiming Our Lady of Guadalupe was nothing more than a deception of the devil. Now, as I understand this, the Church has determined this to be worthy of belief. Why would someone, without any evidence to back up the claim, malign Our Lady as well as our Catholic faith? Mr. Smith is the head of a rather large Protestant denomination. Perhaps it bothers me so much because someone I care about attends services at Calvary Chapel. Nonetheless, I think this was over the top.
Any thoughts?
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In the past I would have been offended,but now I simply blow it off. Here is the way I see it now:

Many have attacked and hated the church over the centuries…where are they now? Does anyone care? Yet the Catholic Church is still here…😉
 
From what I have heard, a large portion of the members of Calvary Chapel are ex-Catholics. The same is true I think of the Jehovah’s Witnesses. That is probably why they are vehemently anti-Catholic; they have to justify their action. Aesop had a fable of the fox who lost his tail; so tried to get the rest of the foxes to cut off their tails.
 
 
I used to attend a Calvary Chapel, and every message I heard was an attack of the Catholic faith. My family is Catholic, so I started to look into the “Heretical Doctrines” of the Catholic Church in order to bring the “True Gospel” to my family, so they could be saved. Needless to say, I converted or reverted back home to Rome, through the study of Scripture in light of early Christian History. To be deep in History…well, you all know the rest. I used to think that many of the Calvary Chapel Pastors, and other Fundamentalist Pastors were sincere, they just lacked an understanding of what the Catholic Church actually taught, (as opposed to the caricature of Her represented by many ill informed Catholics and Protestants alike.) I now, do not hold to that view. I believe that many Pastors are willfully and purposefully deceiving “their flock” for their own personal gain, whether it be, money, stature, or any other prideful vainglory. I believe Chuck Smith falls into that category, and many people may say that he is a good guy, with good intentions, and he is someone who has a heart for people in his congregation. Do good people know the truth yet suppress it for their own personal gain? Knowingly misleading others, is that a good intention? I think not! Here is a saying Chuck Smith, founder of Calvary Chapel in 1968 likes to use “if its true, its not new, and if its new, then its not true.” Good advice Chuck, maybe you should recommend some reading material from people in the early Church, before “Constantine paganized Christianity” as you like to say! People like Clement of Rome, Ignatius of Antioch, Justin Martyr, Tertullian, Irenaeus and so on!
 
Chuck Smith’s opinion is both irrelevant and quite frankly one borne of self inflicted ignorance. Scientific analysis has reliably proven that the pigment and picture is of NO KNOWN substance or application. One thing I admire about how the Church engages miracles is one of initial pessimism. The more the phenomenon stands up to inquiry, the harder it is to disprove. Smith is an evangelical literalist who has no understanding of Latin, Greek, Hebrew or biblical history. Simple theology from a simple mind who’s got a good hustle going on. Harsh words for certain but the truth nonetheless.
 
I have a good friend - she and her husband both attend Calvary Chapel (previously in CA - now in Illinois) … both VERY into their faith. She knows I am Catholic, and we often speak of our shared beliefs mostly Jesus and our favorite Bible passages - I don’t say anything about her church, she says nothing about mine.

I never for a second questioned whether she thought I was a Christian??? For those who previously attend this Church - do you think she actually does? :eek:

And regarding the OP - Our Lady of Guadalupe DRAWS people to Christ! Why would Satan want that? How ridiculous.
 
she may think you are a Christian IN SPITE of your Catholic beliefs. But it was the study of early church doctrine that led me to believe in the Real Presence in the Eucharist.
 
It’s a simple matter really; Without the Virgin Mary you have no Jesus. The blessed Virgin Mother of God reveals to us who Jesus is “Immanuel”(God with us). One cannot have Jesus without the Virgin Mary.

Christianity that removes St.Elizabeths revelation of Mary being “The Mother of my Lord (God)”. Becomes a two dimensional gospel between what man choses to believe and reject what the Holy Spirit has revealed in time in the incarnation.

When the True Gospel is three dimensional which includes the family of God elevating the revelation of the Trinity to the fourth dimension in the Spirit, where the Trinity reveals the family of God as whole to include the Incarnate Word of God made flesh to become family with our humanity in the Virgin Mary Mother of God incarnate.

When we become the body of Christ and Jesus is our head. The blessed Virigin Mary is instrumental in bringing about this revelation of God. So reject her, or leave her out of the equation of revelation of God, is to lack familial relations in communion with the family of God, because the Trinity reveals a family of Love. To neglect the Virgin Mary is to move outside of the family of God, or to lack the “full deposit of faith revealed from heaven”.

Peace be with you
 
In response to Yellowbird’s question on whether your friend even recognizes you as a Christian, I would say the consensus of MOST Calvary Chapelites is that you are one of the few who God has called in spite of the “False Religious System” that they consider the Catholic Church to be! My former Pastor once said that “If one is called by God while they are in the Catholic Church, then they will be called out of that Church by God once they start reading the bible.” In his defense though, he did say that many will KNOW the truth yet stay in the Catholic Church because of cultural identity, to be close to family, or people in a community. If you speak to them enough about Jesus certain things will eventually come up like the Eucharist, Baptism, Ministerial Priesthood, A Church an so on. They are taught that Christianity was paganized by emperor Constantine, so you could always share some of the Saints and Early Church writings that predate Constantine. Ignatius of Antioch, Justin Martyr, Tertullian, Ireneus, Clement of Rome and may others.

Peace and Love in Christ :highprayer:
 
onemangang said:
They are taught that Christianity was paganized by emperor Constantine, so you could always share some of the Saints and Early Church writings that predate Constantine. Ignatius of Antioch, Justin Martyr, Tertullian, Ireneus, Clement of Rome and may others. Peace and Love in Christ :highprayer:
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JL: onemangang could you tell me what source material do they use to teach their historic fiction?
 
Chuck Smith has a radio channel in California 107.9 kwve (known as k-wave) I believe Calvary chapel owns blueletterbible dot com, which I believe Chuck Missler also has a hand in that web site. Both Chucks are anti-catholic and spew there anti-catholic venom from different mediums. Chuck Smith primarily uses his “Pastors Perspective” radio show to spew his venom, where Chuck Missler uses Koninia House and I think I heard a message from Chuck Missler on blueletterbible spewing his anti-catholic garbage, probably in his study of Revelation. K-Wave radio is run by calvary chapel, that is where you will find of lot of anti-catholic stuff that always seems to “misrepresent” Catholicism, and by that I mean build a false Catholic straw-man, just to burn it down! He is also on youtube. Here is just an example of Chuck Smith’s Catholic straw-man. thescroogereport.wordpress.com/2007/07/16/calvarys-pastor-chuck-smith-disputes-pope-benedicts-catholic-ways/

With that being said, I have met many of great people in Calvary Chapel and not all drink Chuck’s Kool-Aid, unfortunately many do 😦
 
onemangang said:
Chuck Smith has a radio channel in California 107.9 kwve (known as k-wave) I believe Calvary chapel owns blueletterbible dot com, which I believe Chuck Missler also has a hand in that web site. Both Chucks are anti-catholic and spew there anti-catholic venom from different mediums. Chuck Smith primarily uses his “Pastors Perspective” radio show to spew his venom, where Chuck Missler uses Koninia House and I think I heard a message from Chuck Missler on blueletterbible spewing his anti-catholic garbage, probably in his study of Revelation. K-Wave radio is run by calvary chapel, that is where you will find of lot of anti-catholic stuff that always seems to “misrepresent” Catholicism, and by that I mean build a false Catholic straw-man, just to burn it down! He is also on youtube. Here is just an example of Chuck Smith’s Catholic straw-man. thescroogereport.wordpress.com/2007/07/16/calvarys-pastor-chuck-smith-disputes-pope-benedicts-catholic-ways/ With that being said, I have met many of great people in Calvary Chapel and not all drink Chuck’s Kool-Aid, unfortunately many do 😦
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JL: Thanks One, What is the difference in Calvary Chapel and Vineyard, are they the same? Also why is it Calvary Chapel or Vineyard posters will not identify themselves, but hide behind the generic christian or protestant?
 
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