Church accused of using FBI-style tactics to watch and silence priests

[pepipop]

independent.ie/national-news/church-accused-of-using-fbistyle-tactics-to-watch-and-silence-priests-3073843.html

What is going on - I never realised there were so many priests not in line with the church’s teachings and the vatican?

Quote: "Jesus was a victim of those who wanted to silence him . . . They wanted rid of him."

What is wrong with these priests, this is madness, and no doubt one of the reasons for so many cafeteria catholics.

*Priests are being subjected to FBI-like attention from Catholic “agents” who want to silence anyone brave enough to voice their own opinions from the pulpit, a leading cleric claimed yesterday.

Fr Adrian Egan – the head of the Redemptorist Order in Limerick – criticised the Vatican and publicly backed Fr Tony Flannery, who is being investigated by Rome because of his liberal views.

Fr Flannery, an Athenry-based Redemptorist, who is the founder of the Association of Catholic Priests, has for the past 14 years written his opinions in the Redemptorist Order’s ‘Reality’ magazine.

However, the Holy See has now intervened, and his monthly column has been discontinued.*

*"The reality, too, is that, there are people sitting in churches on a daily basis that are almost listening to hear you express an opinion that might be seen as dissenting and they will report you.

“It’s a little bit back like maybe in the Hoover days in America, where there are kind of agents all around the place that are willing to lift a phone, or write a letter, to a local bishop or the Vatican, and say, ‘so and so did this’, and it may be of the most minor thing, and yet, they can be taken seriously.”

Drawing a parallel with the crucifixion of Jesus, Fr Egan said: "I want to be able to articulate what I feel and what I think about. We are now celebrating Holy Week this week and, in many ways, Jesus was a victim of those who wanted to silence him . . . They wanted rid of him.*

 

[tbcrawford]

I don’t know about a priest being investigated for having ‘liberal’ viewsbut if the church is to investigate it should concetrate in those with right wing views.

 

[Leegal]

I should point out that this is Irish press and it’s happening in Ireland, not in the U.S. or anywhere else, according to the article.

As we are all aware, there has been a division with the Irish Catholic Church and the Vatican of recent months having to do with the withholding of documents on abuse.

We should pray for a resolution.

The title is mis-leading. If you are from Ireland you must be aware the the Pope is not invited to the Eucharistic Congress in June, Ireland closed it’s Vatican office and there are many people in Ireland unhappy with the way priestly abuse was handled. Even your PM spoke out against the Church in parliament. The former Archbishop of Dublin refused to hand over documents.

Archbishop Diarmuid Martin seems to be trying to rectify the situation and handed over 65,000 documents.

cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7400874n

 

[runningdude]

Priest’s have a job to do, which is preach the gospel message according to church teaching. The pulpit is not a forum for “opinions”. The claim of “FBI-style tactics” seems ludicrous.

 

[pepipop]

independent.ie/national-news/flannery-urged-end-to-celibacy-rule-3073931.html

Well I think ‘liberal’ priests should be drawn into line. I am sure there are priests like this throughout the world, USA included.

Here are some of the comments from the priest in question, he also wants the celibacy rule ended:

*Here is a sample of some of Fr Flannery’s thoughts:

• “Many of us priests are very frustrated with the way the Vatican conducts its business.”
• “To hear someone in the position of the Taoiseach speak so strongly, so eloquently, and with such dignity, in challenging the Vatican was good.”
• “Many reforms are needed in the church, and there is little or no discussion allowed at any level.”
• “We cannot have any event (the Eucharistic Congress) dominated by a phalanx of mitre-wearing bishops surrounded by large groups of clergy.”*

 

[Armyvet007]

I’m supposed to be upset that the Church is “forcing” the clergy to adhere to the teachings of the Christ and not use their position to promote their political views?

Yeah…I’ll get right on writing a letter of protest to my Bishop. I’ll even throw in the idea that Church doctrine should be based on social popularity and not the Truth. Yeah, I’ll get right on that. /sarcasm

 

[BlueSapphire]

independent.ie/national-news/flannery-urged-end-to-celibacy-rule-3073931.html

Well I think ‘liberal’ priests should be drawn into line. I am sure there are priests like this throughout the world, USA included.

Here are some of the comments from the priest in question, he also wants the celibacy rule ended:

*Here is a sample of some of Fr Flannery’s thoughts:

• “Many of us priests are very frustrated with the way the Vatican conducts its business.”
• “To hear someone in the position of the Taoiseach speak so strongly, so eloquently, and with such dignity, in challenging the Vatican was good.”
• “Many reforms are needed in the church, and there is little or no discussion allowed at any level.”
• “We cannot have any event (the Eucharistic Congress) dominated by a phalanx of mitre-wearing bishops surrounded by large groups of clergy.”*

Fr. Flannery is a brother of senior Fine Gael adviser Frank Flannery, of which the Taoiseach is Leader!

 

[pepipop]

Fr. Flannery is a brother of senior Fine Gael adviser Frank Flannery, of which the Taoiseach is Leader!

That may explain a lot, as to why the Taoiseach said what he did (with Fr Flannery whispering into his brother’s ear, who then whispered into the Taoiseach’s). I’m genuinely quite shocked that priests are talking against matters of tradition within the church, celebacy, woman priests, etc…

His comment about the eucharistic congress was extremely uncalled for - it sounded like an anti-catholic talking in ‘smells and the bells’ lingo!

 

[Fiasco]

I don’t know about a priest being investigated for having ‘liberal’ viewsbut if the church is to investigate it should concetrate in those with right wing views.

Heretics/dissenters should be straightened out regardless of which side they come from. Why target mainly the right wing extremists? There are also the public promoters of unapproved or condemned alleged apparitions etc.

**That may explain a lot, as to why the Taoiseach said what he did **(with Fr Flannery whispering into his brother’s ear, who then whispered into the Taoiseach’s). I’m genuinely quite shocked that priests are talking against matters of tradition within the church, celebacy, woman priests, etc…

Yep. Another piece of the jigsaw puzzle falls into place.

His comment about the eucharistic congress was extremely uncalled for - it sounded like an anti-catholic talking in ‘smells and the bells’ lingo!

An anti-Catholic “within” the Church (a subversive) is far more dangerous than an anti-Catholic outside the Church. At least Martin Luther and Co had the decency to break away. To be a parasite is…

These heretics/dissenters have had pretty well their own way for the past 40 years or so. Its more than time for them to be sent packing. Let em earn an honest living somewhere.

 

[pepipop]

Heretics/dissenters should be straightened out regardless of which side they come from. Why target mainly the right wing extremists? There are also the public promoters of unapproved or condemned alleged apparitions etc.

Yep. Another piece of the jigsaw puzzle falls into place.

An anti-Catholic “within” the Church (a subversive) is far more dangerous than an anti-Catholic outside the Church. At least Martin Luther and Co had the decency to break away. To be a parasite is…

These heretics/dissenters have had pretty well their own way for the past 40 years or so. Its more than time for them to be sent packing. Let em earn an honest living somewhere.

I agree, you would think if they disagree with the CC that they would leave and join another christian denomination - not that I would wish them too, I would rather they would obey the rulings and teachings of the church.

The COE clergy did not like what was happening with their church and came over to the CC - some married, which has possibly led to a rise in dissension against the celibacy rule by some CC priests.

 

[Fiasco]

I agree, you would think if they disagree with the CC that they would leave and join another christian denomination.

If nothing else, it`s dishonesty on their part: making their living by sucking the life out of the Host.

• not that I would wish them too, I would rather they would obey the rulings and teachings of the church.

Its impossible for us to understand their thinking, isnt it! Must be loss of faith. Give us the ancient solid rock Foundation any day: “Where Peter is, the Church is.”

The COE clergy did not like what was happening with their church and came over to the CC - **some married, which has possibly led to a rise in dissension against the celibacy rule **by some CC priests.

Good point.
At least in the case of some of the already-married former-Anglican clergymen, in this country at any rate they`ve been able to fit in as chaplains of hospitals, nursing homes etc, making it easier for their wives and children, and lifting a burden off the shoulders of parish priests. Great for sick calls for the dying: a vital ministry.

 

[pepipop]

If nothing else, it`s dishonesty on their part: making their living by sucking the life out of the Host.

Its impossible for us to understand their thinking, isnt it! Must be loss of faith. Give us the ancient solid rock Foundation any day: “Where Peter is, the Church is.”

Good point.
At least in the case of some of the already-married former-Anglican clergymen, in this country at any rate they`ve been able to fit in as chaplains of hospitals, nursing homes etc, making it easier for their wives and children, and lifting a burden off the shoulders of parish priests. Great for sick calls for the dying: a vital ministry.

That’s an excellent way for the ex-Anglican clergy to be utilised.

 

[Cider]

It’s about time, when they are done Ireland hopefully they can come over to the US and get to work.

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

Here are some of the comments from the priest in question, he also wants the celibacy rule ended…

So? Its a discipline. He’s allowed to have an opinion. Perhaps he’s been imprudent in how he shares it, but its legitimate to have an opinion.

*Here is a sample of some of Fr Flannery’s thoughts:

• “Many of us priests are very frustrated with the way the Vatican conducts its business.”

• “To hear someone in the position of the Taoiseach speak so strongly, so eloquently, and with such dignity, in challenging the Vatican was good.”

• “Many reforms are needed in the church, and there is little or no discussion allowed at any level.”

• “We cannot have any event (the Eucharistic Congress) dominated by a phalanx of mitre-wearing bishops surrounded by large groups of clergy.”*

Nothing heretical here. Once again, perhaps imprudent or immature but nothing against faith or morals in any of this.

 

[pepipop]

So? Its a discipline. He’s allowed to have an opinion. Perhaps he’s been imprudent in how he shares it, but its legitimate to have an opinion.

Nothing heretical here. Once again, perhaps imprudent or immature but nothing against faith or morals in any of this.

No, nothing heretical however he entered the church as a ‘shepard’ and knew and accepted the rules/disciplines before entering.

His lack of obedience to the church is disappointing at best, but immensely damaging at worst as it causes division in the church and relays a message to laity particularly cafteria and lapsed catholics, that they could also ‘disagree’ with church teachings/doctrines, for example, such as using contraception, etc…

 

[Richard320]

Heretics/dissenters should be straightened out regardless of which side they come from. Why target mainly the right wing extremists? There are also the public promoters of unapproved or condemned alleged apparitions etc.

Yep. Another piece of the jigsaw puzzle falls into place.

An anti-Catholic “within” the Church (a subversive) is far more dangerous than an anti-Catholic outside the Church. At least Martin Luther and Co had the decency to break away. To be a parasite is…

These heretics/dissenters have had pretty well their own way for the past 40 years or so. Its more than time for them to be sent packing. Let em earn an honest living somewhere.

I concur.

Dissident Priests are wolves in sheep’s clothing. Consciously or or not, they are doing Satan’s work: divide and conquer.

 

[trials]

I concur.

Dissident Priests are wolves in sheep’s clothing. Consciously or or not, they are doing Satan’s work: divide and conquer.

Agree totally. The dissenters are calling for freedom of expression, but don’t seem to understand that we cannot have our priests preaching several different “opinions” each believing they are equally right, especially when those opinions go against Church teaching on morals, priestly celibacy, women priests, etc. What happens to the Church then?

Unfortunately the priests in my country (Ireland) have a serious lack of catechesis regarding the importance of Magisterial teaching. Obedience seems to have got lost along the way, and egos have become inflated, as priests apparently outdo each other in an attempt to get their name mentioned or book published with their latest critical attack on the Church or controversial opinion on Church teaching. Pray for us.

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

No, nothing heretical however he entered the church as a ‘shepard’ and knew and accepted the rules/disciplines before entering.

Unless he’s violated a particular discipline of the Church then he’s accepted the discipline. He’s free to hold the opinion that any discipline should be changed.

His lack of obedience to the church is disappointing at best, but immensely damaging at worst as it causes division in the church and relays a message to laity particularly cafteria and lapsed catholics, that they could also ‘disagree’ with church teachings/doctrines, for example, such as using contraception, etc…

Nothing in this thread has pointed out any disobedience. And nothing in this thread shows he’s opposed to any teaching of faith or morals, so it would be a mistake to extrapolate from that some kind of permission to disagree with dogma.

 

[Corki]

Nothing in this thread has pointed out any disobedience. And nothing in this thread shows he’s opposed to any teaching of faith or morals, so it would be a mistake to extrapolate from that some kind of permission to disagree with dogma.

The linked articles states that Father Egan’s remarks were in the context of support for Father Flannery who was recently silenced by the Vatican. Some of Father Flannery’s work has included preaching in opposition to the Church’s stance on contraception and supporting women’s ordination. Those are both doctrinal teachings on faith and morals.

So are you saying that since those two points are “only” doctrinal teaching and not dogmas, that there is no disobedience involved?

 

[JackyB]

So? Its a discipline. He’s allowed to have an opinion. Perhaps he’s been imprudent in how he shares it, but its legitimate to have an opinion.

Nothing heretical here. Once again, perhaps imprudent or immature but nothing against faith or morals in any of this.

Timing is everything, and there couldn’t be a better time for a priest to be imprudent or immature or whatever other excuse you can come up with for sowing more turmoil in a country which was once so strongly catholic.