Church Attendance/Participation

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I don’t think V2 promoted any of that, though. I think it’s just people taking liberties, thinking that because the Mass has a new form, they can change things further. None of those people who decided on these things have the authority to do this. It’s evident that the Church’s authority is being defied.
 
Dougbro1 said:
I think it’s just people taking liberties, thinking that because the Mass has a new form, they can change things further. None of those people who decided on these things have the authority to do this. It’s evident that the Church’s authority is being defied.
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True, some people took things too far, but other pious practices were officially dispelled:
  • Meatless Fridays
  • Eucharistic fast from Midnight
  • Ad Orientem
  • “Prime” hour in Divine Office
  • Liturgical vestments (and all their symbolic significance): maniple, cincture, amice, etc.
  • Mass abbreviated / simplified
  • Sloppy English translation (had to be fixed in 2011)
  • Religious habits optional for nuns
 
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Yes and no. The Presbyterian and Lutheran churches that are liberal, which is most of them, are dying. People are running away from them like they’re on fire. But the ones that are Reformed and confessional are growing.

Same with other Reformed and confessional churches. I’m Reformed Baptist and when we moved to this area three years ago, there were no Reformed Baptist churches. Now, there are five that I know of, maybe more. The church we left went from 24 people to more than 400 in just six years.

So it’s not as bleak as it seems.

As for non-denominational churches, it used to be that when you went in to a non-denominational church, it was essentially a Baptist church in doctrine and practice, even if they did not call themselves that.

Now, you’re seeing this goofy churches with names like “The Bridge” and “The Connection” exploding all over the place. I get ads for these constantly on my Facebook page and I can’t for the life of me figure out what makes them churches. They’re essentially entertainment centers for adults. And the funny thing I’ve noticed is that they seem to attract mostly women, because they’ve emasculated the Gospel.
 
Not dispelled, just not required. For example, meatless Fridays are something I still do (except, of course, on Feast Days). I admit I am a bit sympathetic towards V2, because it’s a big part of the reason I am alive today. I can elaborate more on this as to why this is the case, but whether that should be for another thread, you can be the judge.
 
HollowMan said:
I’m Reformed Baptist and when we moved to this area three years ago, there were no Reformed Baptist churches.
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You guys need to just break down and call yourselves Non-Pedo Presbyterians already. 🙂
 
Dougbro1 said:
Not dispelled, just not required. For example, meatless Fridays are something I still do (except, of course, on Feast Days)
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True, it’s not totally dispelled, but at this point there’s not much fasting in Catholicism.
Orthodox on the other hand are strict vegans for more than 1/2 the year.
Dougbro1 said:
I can elaborate more on this as to why this is the case, but whether that should be for another thread, you can be the judge.
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Sounds interesting, feel free to do it! 😁
 
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The Catholic Church teaches to “put down” people outside of the Church?
 
margaret42 said:
The Catholic Church teaches to “put down” people outside of the Church?
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The Catholic Church clearly teaches no such thing. I honestly didn’t understand the entire train of thought for TC3033’s posts seeming to claim the OP was being uncharitable, when the OP isn’t even Catholic as far as I know. So I just skipped that part of the thread.
 
This may be not part of the subject, but why do you think 'Non-practicing Catholics mock those Catholics who care about the faith?
 
TC3033 said:
By putting down you fellow brothers and sisters in Christ (which is what I’m told the Catholic church teaches) via your n=1 experiment isn’t very charitable at all…
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Who told you that?
 
@DeniseNY @Tis_Bearself @margaret42

My post seems to be missing punctuation which I can understand could create some confusion.

I was saying: I have learned that the Catholic Church teaches that it sees non-Catholic Christians as brothers and sisters in Christ, therefore I found it strange for the OP to post a snarky comment such as “so much for trying to be relevant”, which I found uncharitable.

Apologies for any confusion.
 
OK, that’s more clear.

The OP is, to my knowledge, currently Anglican, and has a number of significant issues with the Catholic Church that he has posted about in the past, so I saw his comment as coming from a third party observer, not from a Catholic church perspective.
 
JohnStrachan said:
God loves everyone as they are and without expectation that they change. And the end result… no one cares.
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JohnStrachan said:
Just an observation… Mainline Protestant churches have been falling all over themselves to be relevant for decades and nothing has arrested the numerical decline in the number of adherents. They have: allowed clergy to marry, women to be ordained as deacons and later priests, allowed no-fault divorce and many have blessed same-sex marriages. They have lowered the bar for admission to their churches and the pews are emptying. Nothing trendy is bringing people back.

So I attend a RC service on the weekend (I normally worship at an Anglican church) and the numbers are impressive. The service is in French and the church is 75% full - on Canada Day weekend no less. The RC’s have remained steadfast in their doctrine, and people still come. I’m not suggesting that church attendance is not declining in the RC church - because it is. But they are not trying to lure people back to church with changes to doctrine what whatever might be hip and cool right now.

My chief observation is that Mainline Protestant churches here in Canada have gone out of their way to apologize to every group they may have offended over the course of history, they have watered down their teaching so it is not offensive to anyone, they have embraced inclusive language, removed any expectation of weekly attendance and, essentially, preach a doctrine that God loves everyone as they are and without expectation that they change. And the end result… no one cares.
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Your last statement says it all. If doctrine is bad so will be the outcome
 
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TC3033 said:
was saying: I have learned that the Catholic Church teaches that it sees non-Catholic Christians as brothers and sisters in Christ, therefore I found it strange for the OP to post a snarky comment such as “so much for trying to be relevant”, which I found uncharitable.

Apologies for any confusion.
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It seems I’ve created confusion here. My comment was not directed toward the RC church. My criticism is to mainline Protestant churches that have endeavoured to be relevant by catering to every need of a secular society:
  • You want female clergy - here you go
  • You want feel good sermons - here you go
  • You want to drink coffee during the service - here you go
  • Don’t want to commit to coming every Sunday - no problem, come only when you feel like it
  • Don’t want to give anything up for Lent - don’t worry about it, Lent is overblown anyway
  • Don’t believe in miracles - don’t worry, they are probably fairy tales anyway
  • Don’t want to give an offering - don’t worry, the regulars will carry the load
  • Don’t want to hear about personal sin - don’t worry, we focus only on social sins here like poverty, homelessness and affordable childcare
  • etc, etc, etc.
So when I said, so much for being relevant, it was to say the process of trying to cater to every fleeting whim is futile.

That the RC church has remained steadfast in belief and practice is a quality worth emulating.
 
This is why I don’t like the Protestant viewpoints. And there’s something in common when people talk about “the Church”-it refers to the Catholic Church. Do you think that?
 
JohnStrachan said:
  • You want female clergy - here you go
  • You want feel good sermons - here you go
  • You want to drink coffee during the service - here you go
  • Don’t want to commit to coming every Sunday - no problem, come only when you feel like it
  • Don’t want to give anything up for Lent - don’t worry about it, Lent is overblown anyway
  • Don’t believe in miracles - don’t worry, they are probably fairy tales anyway
  • Don’t want to give an offering - don’t worry, the regulars will carry the load
  • Don’t want to hear about personal sin - don’t worry, we focus only on social sins here like poverty, homelessness and affordable childcare
  • etc, etc, etc.
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Interesting, I guess we are visiting/attending/attended much different mainline Protestant churches. I’ve noted a little of what you say in the list (not for the snarky reasons you list) but still interesting enough.

Sounds like a leadership issue in some local/geographical areas to me…🤷‍♂️

Go with it if you want to though I guess. I still see mainline Protestant churches as quite relevant, again maybe that’s due to my geographical local…
margaret42 said:
This is why I don’t like the Protestant viewpoints.
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Pardon? What are the “Protestant viewpoints”?
 
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