Church Authority and the Amazon Controversy

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Your post said intentions should not be assumed.

Then next post said intentions should be assumed.

It was a chance to clarify, which was apparently declined.
 
Fauken said:
A Synod, by its very nature, will not be creating pronouncements I must assent to. So what exactly must I assent to?
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Bishops, teaching in communion with the Roman Pontiff, are to be respected by all as witnesses to divine and Catholic truth. In matters of faith and morals, the bishops speak in the name of Christ and the faithful are to accept their teaching and adhere to it with a religious assent. This religious submission of mind and will must be shown in a special way to the authentic magisterium of the Roman Pontiff, even when he is not speaking ex cathedra; that is, it must be shown in such a way that his supreme magisterium is acknowledged with reverence, the judgments made by him are sincerely adhered to, according to his manifest mind and will. His mind and will in the matter may be known either from the character of the documents, from his frequent repetition of the same doctrine, or from his manner of speaking.
Lumen Gentium 25
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Weren’t you ever taught this? @Willing_Spirit has been doing a good job of explaining it.
 
I’m guessing the items are going to be recovered from the Tiber and returned to the Vatican, since what becomes of the pieces is a diplomatic matter. They may not be able to find them, but someone will probably look. The Vatican has art curators who can do what is needed to repair any damage.

Let us pray such items are never seen in a Catholic church again, though. I think we can all agree on that.
 
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The synod of bishops is merely an advisory body to the Pope, unless the Pope grants it deliberative authority, which he has not done in this case. Ultimately, what has value is what, if anything, the Pope does in his own name afterward. For better or worse, this is usually some very long Exhortation which is almost immediately forgotten. In any event, here is where the authority of such synods is defined:

From the Code of Canon Law:
Can. 343 It is for the synod of bishops to discuss the questions for consideration and express its wishes but not to resolve them or issue decrees about them unless in certain cases the Roman Pontiff has endowed it with deliberative power, in which case he ratifies the decisions of the synod.
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Of course, informally, the participants are certainly influenced by their experience which may influence their own actions when they return to their own sees.
 
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I just asked some example because for how much i think it doesn’t come to my mind any. About what he got from his act, i’m almost sure he didn’t do it to get notoriety, and neither sense of accomplishment, but just to do the will of God, to destroy idols as stated in Scriptures.

About car and wallet example, i never heard of thieves throwing away what they stole, and if they were, what they were getting was something like revenge or something other due to having something against the victim. In this case the man did a good action wich benefitted all
 
Willing_Spirit said:
What you say makes sense, but I still think what was done is wrong. Undermining the authority God established is undermining God. Concerns should be voiced to the leadership and they will hold the debates assessing if something is inappropriate based on the interpretation of scripture.
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This is NOT the first time the laity has risen up to save the Church from heresy. During St. Athanasius’s time, also all the bishops (including the Pope) was being swayed by the Arianism heresy.

Many laity avoided Arian bishops & priests and would only attend mass with orthodox clergy. They focused on raising their young in an orthodox way and eventually took the Church back.

HOWEVER, the big difference today is that orthodox clergy need to know that there are faithful Catholics in the pews who will have their backs. Faithful clergy are too often beaten down every day by heretics & the lukewarm. Their moral to defend the faith is often shaken. We laity need to rise up and tell let them know that orthodoxy has support and we will defend it.

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/28161.htm
 
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Yes, we need to tell them, not engage in acts of vandalism. It’s funny you should mention this, because I just watched a video series a few days ago on Constantine, and the schism that Arianism caused in the Church.

If there is a debate amongst bishops, it makes sense that the laity will support the ones they think are right, but to just act as a vigilante in the Church is to act against Catholicism.
 
The church building is part of the house of God, which priests tend to as the gathering place of a parish. It is their responsibility. If a priest deems something that was donated to the church as appropriate to be in a church, nobody from the laity should be taking those donations and depriving the church and others. If the laity thinks there is a problem with how the priest is overseeing a church, they should talk to the priest. If the priest won’t acknowledge the problem, you go to his boss the bishop, and so on. If none of the leadership sees the problem, then your perspective is the problem.
 
What is the difference?

Both seem to me to be anti religious rabble cleansing the Church of false Gods, according to the private opinions of the perpetrators.
 
Willing_Spirit said:
The church building is part of the house of God, which priests tend to as the gathering place of a parish. It is their responsibility.
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Which is not a bishop, much less the “Archbishop in charge of the Synod”.
Willing_Spirit said:
The appropriate thing to do would have been to petition the archbishop with authority over the bishops at the synod to have those statues removed from the church.
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I’m also surprised we have to say this to Catholics: Theft is not the way to deal with church authorities making wrong-headed decisions about what does and does not belong in a Catholic church, and it is certainly not the first line of action.

The people who did this can expect to face charges for theft when they are caught. They’d do best to turn themselves in. I feel confident the matter will be dealt with in a proportionate manner, taking the motive of protecting the Church into account.
 
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We put Pagan symbols, Christmas trees, in our home and alters.
The infusion of politics is a bigger poison pill
 
No, it is not. What is the evidence that anyone was forced to steal? There isn’t any.
 
And anyone can judge this? I could decide “Our Lady of Braavos” does not belong? Or any other statue?
 
So a Church dedicated to Holy Wisdom, like Hagia Sophia, can be demolished?

Again, the question is who is to judge this? Anyone can just take a pagan symbol and destroy it? If it is dedicated to something you do not recognize, you support theft and destruction?
 
That is what you implied with “Holy Wisdom isn’t a god, it is specifically a gift of God.” If you think life and fertility are not gifts of God, you must have real problems with Catholicism.
 
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Willing_Spirit said:
How long it would have taken is irrelevant. Stealing from a Church to take matters into our own hands is wrong. Can you imagine if everybody that thought their intentions were good started doing what they wanted? What if everyone that has a problem with caucasian depictions not being true to Jesus just started raiding churches and tossing objects into rivers? Actions can’t be justified by intentions.
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What are you talking about – stealing? I thought we were talking about Catholics criticizing the apparent veneration of pagan idols in a Catholic setting?!
 
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