Church Authority and the Amazon Controversy

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TheBomb.Com said:
Why is the Pope so insistent on having these idols in the Church during the final mass?
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My question too. And for someone without time to meet with the Dubia cardinals or clear up the issue about his faith in the divinity of Christ, he sure didn’t wait long to apologize about the idols taking a swim. I want to keep thinking “he’s just a informal guy who doesn’t really respond to critics” But now he’s being selective. It looks bad on him… just sayin’.
 
The Pope is wrong for doing this. There’s no way of justifying his words or why these idols are so necessary at this synod.

I’ve heard some people on here that keep saying “I’m going to stand with the Pope”. I’m going to stand with the Church, because I can’t rationalize or explain his words and I won’t support the placing of these idols in our churches nor to be used at a Mass.
 
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Emeraldlady said:
Can you give some examples of the early martyr being killed by pagans for refusing to participate in their festivals? My impression was that the early martyrs were predominantly victims of the Jews or politics. Missionaries were known to be killed by pagans but not because they refused to worship their gods. Moreso because they were resisting colonial infiltration.
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You can’t be serious! The only Catholic in Jerusalem who somehow doesn’t know about Roman persecution of the early church! Goodness me. 😛
 
Aquinas11 said:
I love the Intellectual Gymnastics people turning themselves into pretzels to not call a pig a pig.
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Also how the liberals are now eager to judge and talk about sin without giving the benefit of the ‘primacy of conscience’ loophole. lol.
 
When we don’t even know, or follow the 1st commandment we are not following the one true God. Jesus told us when asked what commndment is most important he said in Matt.22: 36-40. The Ist Commandment, I, the Lord, am your God. You shall have no other gods besides me. This tells you all you need to know about what is going on in Rome.
I would like to leave on more though with you, for 2000years Saints and Martyrs have given us our Church. Their blood is the mortar that holds the Church together. None were pagans or taught pagaism. They fought agains it.
 
Pope Francis’ true beliefs and identity are made known as time passes: the purposeful ambiguous language in Amoris Laetitia; the clearing out of orthodox/faithful bishops/cardinals; the refusal to answer the Dubia; the appointments of “progressive” bishops/cardinals/priests to high positions in the Curia,; the throwing of underground Chinese Catholics under the bus; the belittling of youth preferring the Tridentine Mass; the charge of rigidity upon healthy practices or upon those whose express descent; the preference/participation/defense of Pachamama ceremony in the Vatican; and what is yet to come from this Amazon Synod…

Catholics are not papists. We are to carry the cross for Christ—not for just any man/pope. We will continue to obey the pope in so long as the pope himself is also faithful to Christ and the Magisterium. The Church has had her share of saintly popes and also problematic popes. Let’s continue to ask Christ and to ask for the intercession of our Holy Mother for continued faith and fortitude to pray for our shepherds to reject the temptation of pleasing the world and to turn toward Christ and the Magisterium. May God have mercy on all of us and on the Church.
 
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Randolph said:
We will continue to obey the pope in so long as the pope himself is also faithful to Christ and the Magisterium
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Yes agreed. But I will not obey anyone who tells me to bow before an Idol. If these Idols are to be used in Church of St Peter, who is to say they won’t soon appear in our Parishes? And if they do are we going to be asked to bow to them? Not far fetched given that Pope Francis just participated in a ceremony where that took place and called it “good news” that the Idols were found and would be returned to St Peters for final Mass.
 
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““Referring to the statue as “Pachamama,” like many media had done, Pope Francis told bishops at the synod that the statues had been displayed in the Rome church “without any idolatrous intention,” although the men who took the statues claimed on social media that they did so because the statues were idols. “Pachamama” is a term for “Mother Earth” used by some South American indigenous people””

They look like carven idols, a cardinal knelt before it, a man in a friar’s robe prostrated himself before it. what can I say?

I can admit if I am wrong but I won’t risk my soul in all of the delay, doubletalk, hidden backtracking, confusion, and sugar-coating, and I don’t want that “statue” in church.

I can admire the way the earth works with a globe or photos or google earth, or a stack of science books. I am so grateful we have such a wonderful and rare place to live, but I absolutely will not worship it.

How do I avoid destruction? Firstly, by obeying the First Commandment.

I hope the church will educate the Andeans, so that they may be saved, their lives may be better and their labors in the service of God may be eased through knowledge, and they may learn more scientific-while-respectful ways to care for and protect the beauty and natural resources which God has given them. Durable books are printed on demand in any language today. I pray the pachamama thing will never again be put in church!

Let’s not forget how voodoo and witch doctors have infected African churches. What a disaster.
 
Randolph said:
Let’s continue to ask Christ and to ask for the intercession of our Holy Mother for continued faith and fortitude to pray for our shepherds to reject the temptation of pleasing the world and to turn toward Christ and the Magisterium. May God have mercy on all of us and on the Church.
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Great comment. Time to fast and pray.
 
I was physically shaken, and became sick when I heard Pope Francis’ announcement to have the statue of Pachamama at the end of the Synod on display in St. Peter—where the Church venerates the remains of St. Peter (a Saint entrusted by Christ with the key to Heaven).

It’s reasonable to argue whether the act of throwing Pachamama’s statues into the Tiber was an act of theft/disrespect or an act of rejection of idolatry in the Church where God is worshiped. But to exact retribution/revenge for this act by the promise of placing known pagan idols in St. Peter is not just out of line, but an outright disregard for the First Commandment.
 
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I know that the guys who disposed of it purposely took the long walk past Church of St Peter and turned the camera towards the Church and then to the bridge with the angels on it , as a tribute to St Peter, so perhaps they saw that video when deciding on a response. As you said, this is a very unfortunate way to handle the situation. I do think it will backfire and will be a “wake up call” to millions of Catholics worldwide who are probably in the “concerned, but not concerned enough to write a letter to Bishop” phase but upon seeing an Idol on altar of St Peter, would take some serious action to engage their Bishop, stop putting money in collections until Idol worship is condemned, etc.
 
Per this picture of a pagan statue of Pachamama hoisted by Pope Francis in St. Peter, what a historic disaster and a tragic moment of epic proportion for the Church…

We are living in dangerous time in the Church…
 
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Someone tell me: isn’t it true that a church has to be re-consecrated if it’s used for idol worship? Doesn’t it automatically become profane?
 
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