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masondoggy
Guest
um, yea, I rest my case.
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honeysuckle
Guest
I’m just quoting the Bible. That’s the standard that we have given when it comes to the “least of us”
That’s the measuring stick Jesus uses to separate the sheeps from the goats.
So, we can all have common sense, but what’s going on with you has not a thing to do with being rational and cautious and having common sense, it has to do with an un-Christian attitude.
And you’ve got lots of company, so you and all the other normal parishoners can all just feel very good about yourselves and your normalcy. I’m sure Jesus doesn’t require anything else of you.
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honeysuckle
Guest
I’m very sure Jesus agrees with you, as we can clearly see this is a case of deviant sexual behavior. Since we are all such experts on autism here. Comes with being Catholic.
You go right ahead with your attitude. You have no responsibility to this boy.
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masondoggy
Guest
Well, Jesus does require me to be as charitable as possible so I will refrain from saying what’s really on my mind right now.
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honeysuckle
Guest
Oh, I see. Twist the argument now that I’ve shown you that were incorrect to say the newspaper article did not say the girl was an exchange student and he pulled her on his lap for sensory reasons.
You did say I was wrong about that, did you not? And you were wrong, were you not?
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honeysuckle
Guest
I rest my case.
Your problem is you, not me for pointing out the problems with your attitude.
Unless of course I am incorrect, and Jesus was actually excluding Adam Race from the least of us when he said those words.
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Redtown
Guest
Adam Race will probably be denied a drivers license on account of his disability. Isn’t that “exclusion”? Isn’t that “discrimination”?
Oh, but you say, denial of a drivers license is clearly a public safety concern. So why shouldn’t this parish also be concerned for the public safety of all its members?
According to a number of parishioners who’ve spoken out, the parish has taken every reasonable step to try to accommodate Adam. His behavior has only worsened and the parents can’t control him. The pastor has legal and moral duties to protect everyone’s physical safety, not just one mother’s feelings.
I seriously doubt that Jesus wants us to enable dangerously disruptive behavior in the name of “acceptance”, notwithstanding Matt. 25.
Oh, but you say, denial of a drivers license is clearly a public safety concern. So why shouldn’t this parish also be concerned for the public safety of all its members?
According to a number of parishioners who’ve spoken out, the parish has taken every reasonable step to try to accommodate Adam. His behavior has only worsened and the parents can’t control him. The pastor has legal and moral duties to protect everyone’s physical safety, not just one mother’s feelings.
I seriously doubt that Jesus wants us to enable dangerously disruptive behavior in the name of “acceptance”, notwithstanding Matt. 25.
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nobeerinheaven
Guest
I’m with the Priest on this one. He has made more than reasonable efforts toward accommodation. It sounds as though the parents aren’t facing the reality of their child’s situation, probably because they have grown familiar and accustomed to it.
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Robert_Bay
Guest
GENERAL REMINDER
This thread has wondered off topic. Please return to discussing the topic of the original post: Church bars severely autistic boy from mass
This thread has wondered off topic. Please return to discussing the topic of the original post: Church bars severely autistic boy from mass
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Melissa
Guest
No, the mother said it was for sensory reasons, not sensual. The girl’s reactions were not reported, and considering that she is a child staying with these people from some distance away–she may well be intimidated into not contradicting the mother, no matter how she, herself, feels.Oh, I see. Twist the argument now that I’ve shown you that were incorrect to say the newspaper article did not say the girl was an exchange student and he pulled her on his lap for sensory reasons.
You did say I was wrong about that, did you not? And you were wrong, were you not?
Furthermore, autistic people are not immune to the hormonal impulses that come with puberty, and a 13yo male is undoubtedly well into puberty.
The accommodations that the family turned down:
Mass in a completely private room within the church.
Mass said in their own home privately.
The accommodations the family wants:
Force everyone to remain in their seats until they leave
Force everyone to allocate two pews to their family (one for them to sit in, one empty pew in front of them–despite the fact that the young man has previously been allowed to wander outside the pew long enough to get into two separate vehicles and rev engines)
No–the accommodations the family turned down are things that are in the power of the pastor to grant (and being willing to say a private Mass in their home is an offering of considerable value). The ones they’re demanding require other people to do things while doing nothing themselves.
And for them to know that he is ‘occasionally incontinent’ yet do nothing to contain matters? I cannot find a single excuse for that.
The pastor has a duty to all of his parishioners, not just one 13yo autistic young man.
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masondoggy
Guest
The thing that has me so mad here is the media’s refusal to report this whole story and drag this priest through the gravel this way. IMO, it is a very, very serious offense to unjustly smear a priest’s name…even more serious than just the average person. Whether getting the restraining order was right or wrong, nobody can pass judgement on him because nobody else is the one that will have to face the legal consequences if somebody gets hurt. This priest is the one that will be the target of legal action…and possibly disciplinary action by his superiors. He has a massive responsibility on his shoulders and my heart goes out to him for being put in the position he is in.No, the mother said it was for sensory reasons, not sensual. The girl’s reactions were not reported, and considering that she is a child staying with these people from some distance away–she may well be intimidated into not contradicting the mother, no matter how she, herself, feels. I have to wonder if this girls parents back home are aware that their daughter is staying in a home where she is basically being groped by 200 lb kid? I’d be furious if this was my daughter. This family has no business taking on a foreign exchange student under these circumstances.
Furthermore, autistic people are not immune to the hormonal impulses that come with puberty, and a 13yo male is undoubtedly well into puberty.
The accommodations that the family turned down:
Mass in a completely private room within the church.
Mass said in their own home privately. I also read this on another forum by somebody who lives in the area. But of course, no media bother to report it.I’d say this priest has been willing to bend over backwards for this family, above and beyond. Most priests would never offer to do such a thing.
The accommodations the family wants:
Force everyone to remain in their seats until they leave
Force everyone to allocate two pews to their family (one for them to sit in, one empty pew in front of them–despite the fact that the young man has previously been allowed to wander outside the pew long enough to get into two separate vehicles and rev engines) Yup.
No–the accommodations the family turned down are things that are in the power of the pastor to grant (and being willing to say a private Mass in their home is an offering of considerable value). The ones they’re demanding require other people to do things while doing nothing themselves.
And for them to know that he is ‘occasionally incontinent’ yet do nothing to contain matters? I cannot find a single excuse for that. Yup.
The pastor has a duty to all of his parishioners, not just one 13yo autistic young man.
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aimee
Guest
I think some serious reflection on being charitable is due some posters on this thread. 
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Yerusalyim
Guest
I’m sure Honeysuckle finds these reasonable requests and what a charitable Christian would do…the nerve of that priest to offer a private mass.
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honeysuckle
Guest
Yes, I think the accommodations are reasonable, given the family would like to attend Mass together.
But perhaps you would like to answer the question I asked originally. What is YOUR responsibility to Adam Race?
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aimee
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honeysuckle
Guest
Masondoggy, I really think Jesus is cheering on your vitriolic hatred of this child and one-sided reading of the story. Mass is only for those who can act normally, and it is an affront to society to offer crutches to these people to allow them to integrate into society. People who are severely autistic belong in institutions, so we do not have to made uncomfortable by them. I am sure Jesus said this many times.
You didn’t answer me when I asked what responsibility you had to Adam based on Matthew 21:7, but I guess we’ve decided that it DOES NOT apply to freaks like Adam. Whew. What a relief we’ve figured out that theological question.
Glad we cleared that up.
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honeysuckle
Guest
What are you talking about? This comment doesn’t even make sense. If you don’t know anything about autism, and didn’t understand my use of the term “sensory reasons” or the mother’s use of the term then why comment? I mean, why do people feel the need to comment on things they know absolutely nothing about? I can honestly say I never do that. Why other people feel the need to give their 2 cents about things they are clueless is about is really surprising.
Yes, the mother said “sensory reasons”. People with autism often use deep pressure (and their family sits on the boy’s lap to provide deep pressure) to ground their emotions. This is because people with autism have abnormal sensory reactions. They are over-sensitive to some types of (name removed by moderator)ut and under-sensitive to other types.
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masondoggy
Guest
Um, talk about “one-sided reading”. You need to STOP putting hateful words in my mouth. I have had enough of it.
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puzzleannie
Guest
personally I hope the mods issue restraining orders against posters here who are attacking each other, having entirely abandoned rational discussion of the news article and facts reported therein.
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honeysuckle
Guest
I didn’t put those words in your mouth, they are yours, and it is entirely one-sided.
So, from that, I conclude you do not feel strongly that we are called to minister to people who are ostracized from society. Perhaps I am wrong, but you’ve expressed very little that would acknowledge the other side of the story.
There is a post from a mother on page 2 or 3 telling the story of her autistic son trying to give the sign of a peace, and the person turning away, and her son having tears in his eyes.
I assume that person would be you, based on your anger that the Race’s have a different story than the priest. But maybe I’m wrong. You can clear up the misunderstanding if you choose to.
I think it’s interesting that so very, very few people have responded to the human need that Adam represents, or the scripture I quoted. Instead, they talk about their fears of people being hurt, and suggest no accommodation that allows him to be in community with other Catholics is acceptable.
I don’t think that’s an acceptable position for anyone who is a Christian to have, and it’s based on the verses I quoted.
What’s so irrational about that Puzzleannie? Was Jesus irrational when he called the Pharisees vipers? Who should this boy turn to if not to the Church?
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