Church closings...a sign of catholic failure?

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lak611 said:
Also, many of the churches that are closing no longer have parishioners who live in the neighbourhood. The churches are located in the inner-city. The parishioners have moved to the outer suburbs long ago. A few have continued to drive into the city for Mass on Sunday, but not enough to keep the parish going. The demographics changed long ago. The people living in the neighbourhoods where these churches are located are not Catholic.
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True enough, this definitely matches what I’m seeing too. The suburban parishes near me are absolutely thriving.

~~ the phoenix
 
** Just this past Sunday, there were 75 priests ordained in one state.**

And what state was this? Could you tell us, please?
 
LaMar said:
🤷 is right. I’m just discussing trends and statistics. Who knows what’ll happen next year? Maybe the whole world will convert to the Catholic church.

I find it amusing that Catholics have such blinders on. It rivals Mormons. You guys have a very keen internal censor which precludes even an honest discussion of certain topics. That’s something for another thread though.
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😃 Right! like I said you are very funny~
 
i heard a newsreport this afternoon about parish closings in New Orleans, due to the loss of population there after Katrina.

point being that the Church is constantly changing and adjusting to the needs of the people, who are constantly changing and adjusting.

these things vary from region to region. there is no more mobile population than the U.S. population. people are moving about all the time.

ten years ago i belonged to a small country parish in central texas that had a chapel that could hold about 50 people maximum. recently I traveled back there and found a parish of thousands, including many Africans in native dress, lots of South Americans, as well as Anglos.

so whyme needn’t worry. The Catholic Church will grow and adjust, just like it always has.
 
LaMar said:
🤷 is right. I’m just discussing trends and statistics. Who knows what’ll happen next year? Maybe the whole world will convert to the Catholic church.

I find it amusing that Catholics have such blinders on. It rivals Mormons. You guys have a very keen internal censor which precludes even an honest discussion of certain topics. That’s something for another thread though.
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You are quite correct here on one thing. The Blessed Virgin Mary had said “Even the Muslim will convert to the Catholic faith”. And by golly, it’s happening now isn’t it. :rolleyes:
 
bpbasilphx said:
** Just this past Sunday, there were 75 priests ordained in one state.**

And what state was this? Could you tell us, please?
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Yes I will, let me fetch my Catholic newspaper, I’ll get bck to you.
 
LaMar said:
Come on. You’re in a master’s program. You know I expect better from you.

That would be like going to a Kahane Chai meeting in an attempt to get a handle on the Palestinian question.

Appreciate the effort, but try again with something more balanced.
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Oh, all right. Just for you. Try this. There’s a lot of results - take your time sorting through it all, but please don’t overlook reality in your search for the utopia that is Islam. Better yet, move to Saudi Arabia and start spreadin’ the Gospel, and see how far you get.
 
I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it.
 
ibkc said:
Oh, all right. Just for you. Try this. There’s a lot of results - take your time sorting through it all, but please don’t overlook reality in your search for the utopia that is Islam. Better yet, move to Saudi Arabia and start spreadin’ the Gospel, and see how far you get.
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Sorry, but that doesn’t address the original question.

Rather than me going to Saudi Arabia, why don’t you go visit Syria someday? There’s a little town called Ma’aloula up in the foothills. It’s 90% Christian (at least). There’s a big monastery with monks and nuns running around. They’ve been there since the beginning, and nobody’s bothered them yet. Their street signs are in Aramaic.

Damascus has a cool little synagogue which is old (as Methuselah, but I don’t remember precisely how). It’s not much to look at from the outside, but inside it’s really something.

People have lived in that city without being bothered or pressured to convert for a thousand years. Same with Cairo. There are Atheists and pagan types (like the Yazidi) in the Arab world. They don’t seem to have been bothered too much.
 
LaMar said:
Actually, everyone’s taxed. Muslims pay a higher tax than non-Muslims. (It’s 2.5% for Muslims, and 2% for non). Christians and Jews in Muslim countries get some of this money back for upkeep on their buildings, and they are usually allowed to set up their own courts and things like this.

Hopefully Tom or Amy will pop in if I’ve got this wrong or have left something out.

I’m not aware of anyone being murdered in any officially Muslim nation simply for being a non-Muslim. I’m sure you’ll post examples if you have them.
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You are not aware of murders by Muslim killing Catholics because you are not reading the Catholic newspapers.
Just in the Phillipines last year, Muslim were going door to door asking if you were Christian or not. When they came to a family of 3, they shot the parents and baby right in cold blood.
It is happening in Africa, 3 school children wearing Catholic uniforms were beheaded for being Catholic. So don’t give me the **** about your not aware of anyone being murdered by Muslims.
Wake up LaMar and start reading where you should be reading if you want to comment about these things. You apparently know nothing about what is truly happening in the world.
 
Righteousone said:
You are not aware of murders by Muslim killing Catholics because you are not reading the Catholic newspapers.
Just in the Phillipines last year, Muslim were going door to door asking if you were Christian or not. When they came to a family of 3, they shot the parents and baby right in cold blood.
It is happening in Africa, 3 school children wearing Catholic uniforms were beheaded for being Catholic. So don’t give me the **** about your not aware of anyone being murdered by Muslims.
Wake up LaMar and start reading where you should be reading if you want to comment about these things. You apparently know nothing about what is truly happening in the world.
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That’s not the action of a Muslim government though. It’s a few thousand crazy people who went on a rampage. (That doesn’t mean it’s cool, but I see it in context).

I could post lots of reports of Catholics who bomb womens clinics, night clubs, gay bars, and things like this (I did, in fact, in a previous article). That doesn’t mean that Pope Ratzinger would approve of that, or encourage anyone to do such things. I know he wouldn’t.

There is no Muslim equivalent to the Holy Inquisition. When they were attacked, Muslims declared jihad, but they never, ever went around to regular Christians and Jews who were peaceful and killed them. I can’t find one historical reference for such a thing. Even in the Balkans, when Christians were killing Muslim women and little kids in rape and death camps in the 1990s (and, as above, that was crazy people rather than official actions by Catholics/Orthodox), they didn’t do it…and they had imported some of the craziest Muslim jihadists in the world at the time, and it was being done to them. It still didn’t seem to happen.

That’s not me being biased. It’s just history.

[ETA: I think I’ve made my point, and I’ll quit derailing poor Why Me’s thread now 😃 ]
 
why_me said:
It seems that New Jersey is slashing its churches. Does this signal a failure of catholicism? If catholics would do like the mormons, and give 10 percent, would these churches be saved?
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You know dude, for somebody who constantly self-proclaims to be such a good Catholic, you sure post an awful lot of questionable material; both here and on the Mormon boards. I kinda think that the all Priests, nuns and Opus Dei folks you claim to hang out with would be somewhat less than amused if they read some of that stuff. It seems to me that you would be much happier as a good Mormon and maybe you should seriously think that one over.

That said, one reason Parishes are being closed in some areas, particularly in the Northeast, is because there are simply too many of them. During the 1800’s and early 1900’s, there was very high immigration from European Catholic countries; millions of people. Due to language and cultural differences, people tended live in defined ethnic communities and each had its own Parish. For example, if you walk around Chicago or New York, you’ll find many Parishes within a few blocks of each other; often only two or three blocks apart. At one time these Parishes served distinct ethnic neighborhood communities, like Irish, Italians, Germans, Poles, Spanish, Hungarians, etc. Each Parish served a specific need in the overall community, and that need no longer exists. The demographics have totally changed. The days of the ethnic neighborhoods have passed and it does not make any kind of sense to keep all these churches open, many of which are very large, very old and very expensive to operate; and all serving the same homogenized community.
 
RC_Matt said:
That said, one reason Parishes are being closed in some areas, particularly in the Northeast, is because there are simply too many of them. During the 1800’s and early 1900’s, there was very high immigration from European Catholic countries; millions of people. Due to language and cultural differences, people tended live in defined ethnic communities and each had its own Parish. For example, if you walk around Chicago or New York, you’ll find many Parishes within a few blocks of each other; often only two or three blocks apart. At one time these Parishes served distinct ethnic neighborhood communities, like Irish, Italians, Germans, Poles, Spanish, Hungarians, etc. Each Parish served a specific need in the overall community, and that need no longer exists. The demographics have totally changed. The days of the ethnic neighborhoods have passed and it does not make any kind of sense to keep all these churches open, many of which are very large, very old and very expensive to operate; and all serving the same homogenized community.
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This is correct. Also, in many of those neighbourhoods, there are few or no Catholics of any nationality left.
 
Righteousone said:
You are quite correct here on one thing. The Blessed Virgin Mary had said “Even the Muslim will convert to the Catholic faith”. And by golly, it’s happening now isn’t it. :rolleyes:
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It might happen. It’ll be interesting to watch it all unfold.

I think you guys are being a little too harsh with ol’ Why Me. I’m pretty critical of the LDS church. Not because I dislike it…but because I want it to change and survive. Certainly I do dislike certain aspects of it, but ultimately I want it to become more progressive. I see Why Me as a Catholic who is offering criticism with a benevolent intent.

Whether he’s right or wrong is another matter, and statistics are just projections. *The truth of all predictions, is always in your hands…*as an old song goes.
 
LaMar said:
That’s not the action of a Muslim government though. It’s a few thousand crazy people who went on a rampage. (That doesn’t mean it’s cool, but I see it in context).

I could post lots of reports of Catholics who bomb womens clinics, night clubs, gay bars, and things like this (I did, in fact, in a previous article). That doesn’t mean that Pope Ratzinger would approve of that, or encourage anyone to do such things. I know he wouldn’t.

There is no Muslim equivalent to the Holy Inquisition. When they were attacked, Muslims declared jihad, but they never, ever went around to regular Christians and Jews who were peaceful and killed them. I can’t find one historical reference for such a thing. Even in the Balkans, when Christians were killing Muslim women and little kids in rape and death camps in the 1990s (and, as above, that was crazy people rather than official actions by Catholics/Orthodox), they didn’t do it…and they had imported some of the craziest Muslim jihadists in the world at the time, and it was being done to them. It still didn’t seem to happen.

That’s not me being biased. It’s just history.

[ETA: I think I’ve made my point, and I’ll quit derailing poor Why Me’s thread now 😃 ]
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I’d like to know exactly where you found that Catholics bomb clinics, gay bars, night clubs? Where is your source?
 
Righteousone said:
I’d like to know exactly where you found that Catholics bomb clinics, gay bars, night clubs? Where is your source?
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Even if some Catholics did commit these mortal sins, that does not mean the Catholic Church is wrong. The Catholic Church does not condone these things at all. These types of activities would be mortal sins.
 
Righteousone said:
I’d like to know exactly where you found that Catholics bomb clinics, gay bars, night clubs? Where is your source?
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He’s probably referring to the fact that Olympic Park/clinic/gay bar bomber Eric Rudolph is Catholic.

Edited to correct myself: he is Catholic.
 
lak611 said:
Even if some Catholics did commit these mortal sins, that does not mean the Catholic Church is wrong. The Catholic Church does not condone these things at all. These types of activities would be mortal sins.
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That’s exactly right. As I understand things, the Army of God people are excommunicated when they do these things. And the Catholics who ran camps in Yugoslavia were condemned by the Vatican.

The same basic principle exists in Islam. Believing something different does not give Muslims the right to kill peaceful unbelievers. So you had the Cleric in Iran talking about the hijackers on 9/11 going to Hell (excommunicating them, in essence) and Muslims in Palestine regularly condemn the crazy people there who do bombings.
 
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