But Islam has no central authority, so for every cleric condemning extremist acts, there’s at least another celebrating and endorsing extremist acts.The same basic principle exists in Islam. Believing something different does not give Muslims the right to kill peaceful unbelievers. So you had the Cleric in Iran talking about the hijackers on 9/11 going to Hell (excommunicating them, in essence) and Muslims in Palestine regularly condemn the crazy people there who do bombings.
No Muslim has ever condemned these things, though, and these Muslims who do these things walk the streets quite freely. Nobody is arresting them, or seems to think that they have broken any kind of law.That’s exactly right. As I understand things, the Army of God people are excommunicated when they do these things. And the Catholics who ran camps in Yugoslavia were condemned by the Vatican.
The same basic principle exists in Islam. Believing something different does not give Muslims the right to kill peaceful unbelievers. So you had the Cleric in Iran talking about the hijackers on 9/11 going to Hell (excommunicating them, in essence) and Muslims in Palestine regularly condemn the crazy people there who do bombings.
I just don’t see him this way, there is no underlying affection in his criticisms and he doesn’t identify himself with Catholics. On the other hand his criticisms on the MAD board are far gentler and he often uses the word we when speaking of the LDS faith. He’s quite the Mormon over on MAD.I think you guys are being a little too harsh with ol’ Why Me.
I see Why Me as a Catholic who is offering criticism with a benevolent intent.
I’m curious. Should catholics take on this 10 percent requirement, should we refuse catholics sacraments if they don’t keep up the tithing requirement? Should we act like mormons and deny people salvation because they don’t give enough money? Like a mormon being denied their temple pass for failing to keep up their tithing? Let’s ransom salvation in order to keep our coffers filled?It seems that New Jersey is slashing its churches. Does this signal a failure of catholicism? If catholics would do like the mormons, and give 10 percent, would these churches be saved?
The letter was sent to me by a priest. It was sent to many people. I see nothing wrong with church closures per se as long as there is a shrinking population. However, if it is for financial reasons, then I would think that catholics will need to put a little extra in the basket when it comes around. It is sad to see church closures because usually the church can be very beautiful both inside and outside. And for many parishioners who live in the area, the memories are enormous.You know dude, for somebody who constantly self-proclaims to be such a good Catholic, you sure post an awful lot of questionable material; both here and on the Mormon boards. I kinda think that the all Priests, nuns and Opus Dei folks you claim to hang out with would be somewhat less than amused if they read some of that stuff. It seems to me that you would be much happier as a good Mormon and maybe you should seriously think that one over.
Yes, I do defend the lds church over on Mad. The same that I do here. I am consistant in my defense. I posted the article to engage in discussion about church closures. I offered a solution. Catholics should give more financial aid or have a reactivation program. I try to stay neutral in debates. I often refer to ‘the lds’ or mormons on MAD and here I say catholics or catholic.I just don’t see him this way, there is no underlying affection in his criticisms and he doesn’t identify himself with Catholics. On the other hand his criticisms on the MAD board are far gentler and he often uses the word we when speaking of the LDS faith. He’s quite the Mormon over on MAD.
That happened to the parish I grew up in. My mom and I went to the closing Mass last fall. The neighbourhood demographics changed. Most of the parishioners moved away (as me and my mom did) or died. The parish averaged 3 funerals a week in the last 2 years it was open, and it only had 1 baptism in the last 2 years it was open. There was no choice but to close. I was sad, though, because that was where I was baptized, made my first Communion and was confirmed.The letter was sent to me by a priest. It was sent to many people. I see nothing wrong with church closures per se as long as there is a shrinking population.
I can understand your feelings. I think that parishes close for various reasons. In some cases it is demographics and in other cases, a priest shortage or dwindling attendance.That happened to the parish I grew up in. My mom and I went to the closing Mass last fall. The neighbourhood demographics changed. Most of the parishioners moved away (as me and my mom did) or died. The parish averaged 3 funerals a week in the last 2 years it was open, and it only had 1 baptism in the last 2 years it was open. There was no choice but to close. I was sad, though, because that was where I was baptized, made my first Communion and was confirmed.
The LDS church does not have a winning long-term strategy. It’d be shortsighted for any other group to do that, unless they were concentrated in a specific geographical area which was more or less homogeneous. The only place the Catholics have that resembles Utah is, maybe, the rural northeast.For some strange reason, you guys just can’t face up to the facts as stated in the newspaper:
The Camden Diocese serves an estimated 450,000 Catholics. Fifty years ago, 74 percent of Catholics could be counted on to attend at least one Mass a week. Today, it is fewer than 24 percent.
The number of priests is also dwindling. In 2005, the diocese had 171 priests. But retirements are taking their toll, and the number of new priests does not come close to keeping up. By 2015, the diocese expects to have only 85 priests - nowhere near enough to staff 124 parishes.
These deserve red letters because these are important facts. Catholics are not going to Mass and a shortage of priests. Now it is here that the discussion should take place. Catholics not going to mass, means, less money in the collection and a shortage of priests means that churches need to close down.
Now the mormons have their members paying 10% and this certainly helps with expenses for lds churches and temples and could be attempted by catholic churches but it would not solve the catholic priest shortage problem.
The priest shortage evidently goes back to the collapse of morale in the '70s, and also to the recent scandal, which is a consequence of that collapse. IMHO, it is pretty much the same as what happened from 1520-1540. Hence it will take awhile forFor some strange reason, you guys just can’t face up to the facts as stated in the newspaper:
The Camden Diocese serves an estimated 450,000 Catholics. Fifty years ago, 74 percent of Catholics could be counted on to attend at least one Mass a week. Today, it is fewer than 24 percent.
The number of priests is also dwindling. In 2005, the diocese had 171 priests. But retirements are taking their toll, and the number of new priests does not come close to keeping up. By 2015, the diocese expects to have only 85 priests - nowhere near enough to staff 124 parishes.
These deserve red letters because these are important facts. Catholics are not going to Mass and a shortage of priests. Now it is here that the discussion should take place. Catholics not going to mass, means, less money in the collection and a shortage of priests means that churches need to close down.
Now the mormons have their members paying 10% and this certainly helps with expenses for lds churches and temples and could be attempted by catholic churches but it would not solve the catholic priest shortage problem.
Church closings and openings are very much like schools. Where the population goes their goes the Church.The letter was sent to me by a priest. It was sent to many people. I see nothing wrong with church closures per se as long as there is a shrinking population. However, if it is for financial reasons, then I would think that catholics will need to put a little extra in the basket when it comes around. It is sad to see church closures because usually the church can be very beautiful both inside and outside. And for many parishioners who live in the area, the memories are enormous.
A few months ago, I received a letter from that same priest about the shortage of priests in that area in the next few years. I think that church closures and a shortage of priests are issues that catholic need to discuss if the church will remain vibrant.
I seriously doubt that a priest would have nothing to do other then keep you informed about the nature of the church. The Catholic church will never die no matter what. Jesus told us so. Do you want to argue about what Jesus told us? Is he wrong?The letter was sent to me by a priest. It was sent to many people. I see nothing wrong with church closures per se as long as there is a shrinking population. However, if it is for financial reasons, then I would think that catholics will need to put a little extra in the basket when it comes around. It is sad to see church closures because usually the church can be very beautiful both inside and outside. And for many parishioners who live in the area, the memories are enormous.
A few months ago, I received a letter from that same priest about the shortage of priests in that area in the next few years. I think that church closures and a shortage of priests are issues that catholic need to discuss if the church will remain vibrant.
God will make sure He has enough priests. If that means He calls married empty nesters to the priesthood or calls old widowers or some other way, He’ll make sure He has enough priests. That’s not something I’m too concerned about.The priest shortage evidently goes back to the collapse of morale in the '70s, and also to the recent scandal, which is a consequence of that collapse. IMHO, it is pretty much the same as what happened from 1520-1540. Hence it will take awhile for
the effects to be reversed, and then by historical example, the reversal will be incomplete. We do need a burst of the triumphfulism of the '50s, which those inbued with the "spirit of the Council derided so often. Vatican II more and more looks not like a Trent but like the Council that preceded the appearance of Luther.
It’s a newspaper article with a date of Monday. You’re trying to tell us that some priest went to the trouble of photocopying it or typing it out, printing out a mailing list, and mailing them out, all on the same day, just so that you could receive it by yesterday and rush here to post it?The letter was sent to me by a priest. It was sent to many people.
I take this short quote from that article:It’s a newspaper article with a date of Monday. You’re trying to tell us that some priest went to the trouble of photocopying it or typing it out, printing out a mailing list, and mailing them out, all on the same day, just so that you could receive it by yesterday and rush here to post it?