Church closings...a sign of catholic failure?

[dosdog]

I thought he was banned! I did find it strange that he was not heard from and that led me to that conclusion.

Nope was on a mission for the Holy Spirit - Even your Magic underwear cannot save You

DD

 

[BartBurk]

Well this post is a very biased post. I would not say that the lds church extorts funds. It encourages people to pay a tithe and most do. It also claims that blessings will come from paying an honest tithe and many lds claim that blessings come to them. I see no problem with that. To each his or her own. The biblical method is usually 10 percent of the income. In fact, I hear some protestant preachers say the same, at least the ones on TV.

Have you ever heard of a temple recommend? You have to pay your 10 percent to get one. If you don’t you are considered unworthy. I would call that extortion.

 

[ibkc]

There are priests who notify their parishioners by email of weekly events in the parish and also send with these notices, noteworthy news articles. I think that this is a good way to stay in touch with the parishioners without spending a lot of cash. The priest notifies the parishioners who to notify that week if they need ‘Good Semaritan’ help or Knights of Columbus happenings etc.

I don’t think that it is uncommon.

That’s called a “church bulletin” and most parishes have them. Ours comes out on Saturday, although a news article like this would be more likely to be included in the newsletter, which comes out monthly.

I still don’t think that your priest friend was able to include a news article on Monday in a bulletin or a letter (as you originally called it) that had to have been mailed out that same day. I still think you C&P’d it and then decided to claim a priest gave it to you when you needed a little extra cred. Guess you’d blamed enough on your ephemeral nuns.

 

[J_C]

I am glad to hear that the Mormon missionaries are not having success with Catholics in Latin America.

well I can’t speak for all of latin america, of course. i only have the spoken report of this one young missionary, who I have no reason to doubt. according to him it was a constant struggle just to get people to come to church. they would come once or twice and then never again.

from what I’ve read, the pentecostal sects down there are having a lot more success with the Catholics, and this may be affectting how many potential converts are available for momron sales pitches.

 

[jblake]

why me;:

It seems that New Jersey is slashing its churches. Does this signal a failure of catholicism?

Wrong question.

The right question is whether or not the same percentage of the general population attends Mass once a week, as twenty five years ago. If the percentage is less, then the church is failing. If the percentage is more, then the church is not failing. If the percentage is the same, then the church is stagnant.

xan

jonathon

 

[peary]

Demographics have a lot to do with it, but my concern is the closing of Catholic schools in poor neighborhoods and city areas.
This, to me, IS a sign of Catholic failure in that many dioceses do not feel that educating the poor is a noble endeavor anymore. And don’t tell me that they don’t have the money for this. If the majority of dioceses can come up with untold millions of dollars for paying off sexual abuse victims, they certainly have the resources for fostering Catholic education in poor areas of cities.

 

[lak611]

Demographics have a lot to do with it, but my concern is the closing of Catholic schools in poor neighborhoods and city areas.
This, to me, IS a sign of Catholic failure in that many dioceses do not feel that educating the poor is a noble endeavor anymore. And don’t tell me that they don’t have the money for this. If the majority of dioceses can come up with untold millions of dollars for paying off sexual abuse victims, they certainly have the resources for fostering Catholic education in poor areas of cities.

In most of those cases, the children in the school are not Catholic. Most of these remaining schools in the city of Cleveland proper are only open because the non-Catholic families have vouchers that pay for the tuition of their children. The families choose the Catholic schools because the public school system is bad and there are few Protestant schools. Most inner-city Catholic schools do not have many Catholic students.

 

[peary]

I’m not aware of anyone being murdered in any officially Muslim nation simply for being a non-Muslim. I’m sure you’ll post examples if you have them.

Oh, really? Let’s try Iraq for starters.

 

[peary]

In most of those cases, the children in the school are not Catholic. Most of these remaining schools in the city of Cleveland proper are only open because the non-Catholic families have vouchers that pay for the tuition of their children. The families choose the Catholic schools because the public school system is bad and there are few Protestant schools. Most inner-city Catholic schools do not have many Catholic students.

They don’t have to be Catholic. Good education and a sense of character and God is something that benefits everybody in society, including the poorest of the population that the Church has always pledged to help.

 

[rinnie]

No there is no such thing as Catholic failure. Yes Churchs are closing because of many reasons. Look at the cost of gas, taxes, just to get by today. People just dont have alot anymore. I really think its the economy. And its going to get worse. It just too hard for people to help out like they want to. And alot of these Churchs are in need of repair and its just so much. Try to remodel a small bathroom today, thousands. and thats for the cheap stuff. Everything is just too expensive.

 

[lak611]

They don’t have to be Catholic. Good education and a sense of character and God is something that benefits everybody in society, including the poorest of the population that the Church has always pledged to help.

There is only so much money to go around in areas with a declining population in general. The children who are Catholic in the parishes that are thriving must be educated in their faith and receive their Sacraments. If something has to give, it needs to be the education of the non-Catholic children.

 

[Nordar]

They don’t have to be Catholic. Good education and a sense of character and God is something that benefits everybody in society, including the poorest of the population that the Church has always pledged to help.

It costs a lot of money to keep schools functioning, have you ever worked in a Catholic school and see what it costs to run? I have, and if not for parents paying tuition it could not be done. There is only so much money the Doiceses can give to schools. It is not possible to run schools in poor areas without financial help. The Catholic Church does a LOT to help the poorest of people.
A lot of catholic families cannot pay tuition any longer because the economy is so bad. The ones who are still paying are struggling to do so. Before you go on the attack accusing The Church of not helping the poor you should really investigate what it is your are talking about.

 

[twopekinguys]

The problem with the lds church is that the bishopric is made up of average people who also work for a living. It is a very localized way of doing things. And being local yokels they have made mistakes in this issue.

There is always a possiblity that the bishop may find himself out of his league over these types of problems (When someone reports abuse). And bishops have made mistakes. But I think now there is a more clear cut policy over this type of issue. And unfortunately, if a local bishop goofs, the church organization in Utah is to blame according to lawyers.

And the same thought goes through a Mormon mind too: How could god allow this man (bishop) to make such a mistake!

And so, mormons have local yokels doing their priesthood and church callings but the catholic church has people in professions or vocations and it went straight up to the pope, I believe.

I have 2 quick questions/observations about this post.

1. How is this different from the Catholic church scandal? The problem was with the Bishops and the bad priests. There is no indication that the Vatican was involved in it at all. (in other words, mormons have no room to talk)
2. Remember, these are your words “local yokels”. For me, that term shows how much respect you, and other mormons show for their local bishops. (Does your local Bishop know how you feel about him? Got his email address?)

I don’t want to hear you complaining about Catholics picking on mormons after that statement.

 

[jblake]

rinnie;:

People just dont have alot anymore.

I’ll grant that disposal income has dropped by more than 75% over the last thirty years. (So have wages, but that is a slightly different issue. )(This is after adjusting for inflation. )

I really think its the economy. And its going to get worse.

The simple issue is that for a parish to stay open, two things arerequired:

• The number of people who attend mass at least once a week needs to increase each year by at least 5%;
• The parishioners need to tithe;

If a parish meets those criteria, and is closed, then it indicates that there is gross mismanagement at the diocese level. If a parish does not meet those criteria, then it is a failure on the part of the priests to effectively teach the Gospel.

xan

jonathon

 

[peary]

I could post lots of reports of Catholics who bomb womens clinics, night clubs, gay bars, and things like this (I did, in fact, in a previous article). That doesn’t mean that Pope Ratzinger would approve of that, or encourage anyone to do such things. I know he wouldn’t.

There is no Muslim equivalent to the Holy Inquisition. When they were attacked, Muslims declared jihad, but they never, ever went around to regular Christians and Jews who were peaceful and killed them. I can’t find one historical reference for such a thing. Even in the Balkans, when Christians were killing Muslim women and little kids in rape and death camps in the 1990s (and, as above, that was crazy people rather than official actions by Catholics/Orthodox), they didn’t do it…and they had imported :yawn: some of the craziest Muslim jihadists in the world at the time, and it was being done to them. It still didn’t seem to happen.

That’s not me being biased. It’s just history.

[ETA: I think I’ve made my point, and I’ll quit derailing poor Why Me’s thread now

Who wrote the book you consulted, the Three Stooges?:yawn:
[/quote]

 

[rinnie]

I’ll grant that disposal income has dropped by more than 75% over the last thirty years. (So have wages, but that is a slightly different issue. )(This is after adjusting for inflation. )

The simple issue is that for a parish to stay open, two things arerequired:

• The number of people who attend mass at least once a week needs to increase each year by at least 5%;
• The parishioners need to tithe;

If a parish meets those criteria, and is closed, then it indicates that there is gross mismanagement at the diocese level. If a parish does not meet those criteria, then it is a failure on the part of the priests to effectively teach the Gospel.

xan

jonathon

I dont know it you go to a Catholic Church or not. I will admit that some Priests can do better at the business ends of the Church at making money better that others. BUt to make the last comment that the Priests failure to teach the Gospel effectively I totally disagree. The Priest only teach the ways of the Church. And you will see as time has proven in the Past The RCC is the first Church and is still around. But i can say one thing no matter what RCC you go to you should and will get the same teachings. I agree People may not want to always hear the truth (the truth sometimes hurts) and i can apply that to myself also. But its still the correct teachings and Churchs teachings. The RCC is one Religion not many. And its the same understandings throughout the Churchs. But you will also see those numbers are climbing back up. The Church will and Can come back.

 

[PaulDupre]

Have you ever heard of a temple recommend? You have to pay your 10 percent to get one. If you don’t you are considered unworthy. I would call that extortion.

The Mormons also teach that those who pay their 10% “will not be burned at the Lord’s coming”, implying that those who do not pay up will burn. That is why Mormons refer to tithing as “fire insurance”. That is very coercive.

Paul