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**Aināt the truth?! Maternity coverage is painfully expensive.
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Jennifer_J
Guest
Whether people choose to sin doesnāt make the Church teaching less correct, it just means people choose to sin. Or maybe some have fertility issues. or maybe some use NFP for just reasons. Point is, you just donāt know and itās potentially sinful to judge others in such a manner.marybee, exactly. My husband is one of 9. He told me their house was very small and he and some of his brothers had to sleep in the basement. In the town he lived in, it was not uncommon to see large families. It was a very rural area, taxes were low, with lots of farms, dirt roads. Had lived in a large city, they could not have made it. Yes, there are disadvantages to NFPā¦itās easier to get pregnant, and it kills spontanity. Really, never had the spontanity problem!Children do need food, shelter and clothingā¦and lets not forget, doctors, dentists, and other healthcare needs which without insurance, you can forget it. I am one of 3, and I remember when my dad lost his job during downsizing in the 70ās. My mom was a SAHM and did not graduate from high school. Unemployment only goes so far, so she started doing sewing/alterations for the neighbors. We ended up on food stamps and AFDC. Our neighbors shunned us and you could hear the tsk tsk tsk behind our backs. No way would I subject my children to that, and the way my DH grew up he felt the same. With the 2 we have and both of us workingā¦college etcā¦it gets really expensive. If we didnāt have insurance, I have no idea what we would do, especially when my son was diagnosed HFA.
Jenn Jā¦my husband grew up in the northern part of MI, very small town. Yes, you are correct, it is easier, but jobs are not as plentiful as they are elsewhere. Small town midwest kids donāt get the tsk tsk tsk behind their backs, and arenāt made fun of because they wear hand me downs.Sure about that? I grew up in a small Indiana town, I got made fun of for my name, the clothes I wore, and anything elseā¦Kids can be cruel no matter where you live. Not exactly the best excuse for not having children, imho In a metropolis like Cary or Raleigh, our children would be subjected to constant ridicule. And forget Catholic schoolā¦we could not afford it. We barely could afford it for 2 kids up until we movedā¦and I even worked there!..no discount either. If we had a choice between 2 children, we could afford to bring into the world and live at chest level income, vs. 5 or more and live with our heads just barely underwaterā¦we would choose 2 children. To subject 4 or 5 more children to a life of scraping by is not fair to them. 2007 is not like 1947.Yes, and there are tons more options in the year 2007. You can make your own opportunities and you have choicesā¦
No I do not think there should be church collections for large families. If you choose to practice the churchās teachings and use NFP or abstinence and it works for youā¦great. It doesnāt work for every one. What works or not isnāt the point. The point is contraception is against Church teaching. You can either welcome children, use NFP or abstain. Those are the choicesā¦Take a glance around your parish on Sundayā¦and count the number of families who have been in the parish 10 or more yearsā¦then count how many children they have with them. Itās a no brainer.
God bless you,
Jennifer
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CatholicChick
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I think the Church should help the families who need help including large families. Those who have a lot should give to the poor as the Bible says to do. Many families have ill family members and this is also just cause for help from the Church. We can not forget the little ones they are all blessings.
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gardenswithkids
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What I would like to see is support for Catholic education with substancial discounts for each additional child, increasing the discount as the number of children increases. (And I want those Catholic schools to be *good *Catholic schools too.
)Catholic education is expensive now. Some even point to the cost of Catholic education for reasons not having more children. Large families often turn to homeschooling because itās the only way they can afford a good Catholic education. But just as the whole community pays taxes to support public education, (because in theory the public benefits from educated citizens), the whole Catholic community benefits from having Catholics well educated in the Catholic faith.
Most of the volunteers at my parish attended Catholic grammar school. The parish school I attended growing up was very inexpensive, and large families with less money sent their children to it too-- beyond the third child they charged for only the books! I came from a small family, but I benefitted from having friends from large Catholic families. Wide support for good Catholic education with multi-child discount and needs based scholarships would help Catholic parents support the spiritual needs of their children.
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LilyM
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Charity shouldnāt be dependent at all on the number of children in a family.
My parents had five, my great-grandparents had 11. Both couples were sufficiently well-off and never needed to rely on outside help to raise their children. Our Catholic school did help out with fees in the case of families who had three or more children in school at the same time. In the case of my family this only applied for a period of two years in total, and school fees wouldnāt have been too problematic in any event.
As for the cost of Catholic education - what on earth is wrong with sending a child to a non-Catholic school and giving them religious instruction at home? My two oldest sisters went to a state-run school and we were well instructe in the faith at home, and no problems!
On the other hand there are couples with a single child who, if their child has major health or other problems or if one of the parents does, can need a lot of additional help.
My parents had five, my great-grandparents had 11. Both couples were sufficiently well-off and never needed to rely on outside help to raise their children. Our Catholic school did help out with fees in the case of families who had three or more children in school at the same time. In the case of my family this only applied for a period of two years in total, and school fees wouldnāt have been too problematic in any event.
As for the cost of Catholic education - what on earth is wrong with sending a child to a non-Catholic school and giving them religious instruction at home? My two oldest sisters went to a state-run school and we were well instructe in the faith at home, and no problems!
On the other hand there are couples with a single child who, if their child has major health or other problems or if one of the parents does, can need a lot of additional help.
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Jennifer_J
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The Church teaches that we MAY use NFP if just reasons exist, however, the Church doesnāt say that we HAVE to use NFP. Infact, the preferred position is to allow children to come as they may. However, the Church recognizes that this is not always possible.
Jennifer
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gardenswithkids
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Not all large families need tuition assistance, but I believe that Catholic schools should standardly offer lower tuitions for additional children. Large tuitions frighten some nice Catholic couples into not having more children for fear that they wonāt be able to afford Catholic education for the next 18 years. (Few want to put their children in and out of a Catholic school based on their income that year.) Parents who send their children to parish schools usually give additional money according to their means through fundraising and other donations, so all families are encouraged to give beyond tuition.
If people can afford to pay more, then they shouldāand they often do in one way or another, but I think that multi-child discounts benefits the entire Church. I think that it is kinder to recognize that on average people with larger families in the same neighborhoods live on a tighter budget than those with smaller families, and therefore offer the tuition assistance automatically to larger families instead of making them ask for help. But I also favor needs-based scholarships so those with fewer chidren could access tuition help if they needed it.
That all depends on the state run school. And lets face itāstate run schools cost us money tooāoften a lot more per child than Catholic education. The more Catholic children attending good Catholic schools, the lower the cost of educating those same children at state run schools. One way or the other, we pay to educate those children.
With state run schools, the cost of education is spread throughout the entire population, but the people paying for the education want to have a say in what the school teaches. When they teach contrary to the faith, there can be huge problems with sending children to state run schools. Catholics who try to live by Church teaching shouldnāt have to send their children off to be indoctrinated several hours a day in the secular culture. The bishops in the United States recognized this problem at the beginning of the last century and encouraged parishes to have Catholic schools.
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jc-servant
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You have no reason to get nasty with me because I mentioned the field trips. Iāll bet if you actually read my post rather than having a gut reaction you will not find the word ādentalā anywhere in it. Nor will you find me advocating families of a certain size.
I am not against large families or helping them. I also donāt think having larger families are some kind of special ticket to sainthood that should be promoted. My point was that having the church institute some kind of universal ācollectionā or donation in order to subsidize those people who have a large family is not particularly practical in my opinion. This was the actual topic of the thread rather than your tangential rant about the failings of NFP.
I only had 2 siblings and we could not afford all of the dental care that we needed either. My father was military plus he worked multiple extra jobs until he was exhausted, so we also did not qualify for public aid for dental work. So was my family less worthy of help or dignity merely because my parents were less fertile? I donāt think so. Aid from the church or anywhere else needs to be on a case-by-case basis and not merely based on the size of the family.
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marybee
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Jennifer_J
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marybee
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MaryD7
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marybee
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Zelie_Louis
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**
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General Reminder:**
The charity level of this discussion appears to be rapidly deteriorating. Please self-edit for tone and content before clicking the āSubmitā button. If the charity level does not improve, this thread will have to be locked. Thank you for your understanding and cooperation.
If needed, please review the Charity expectations here at CAF.
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Julianna
Guest
I agree with you. Those in need should get the help.
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gardenswithkids
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There are many fears that enter the decision making process of family planning. Financial fear plays into it as well. Many times I read here Catholics choose not to have another child because they donāt think they can afford to. Having another baby sometimes is about overcoming fear.
I think the original poster had a nice thought by trying to come up with a way to help eliviate the financial fears of Catholics raising a large family. Many seem to assume that only the rich can afford to have many children. On the other hand, some assume that lots of children must be poor. It seems that some people today are fearful of the very idea of having a large family. That kind of fear takes away from the decision making process.
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AlegreFe
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Having another baby might be about overcoming oneās fear but itās more about overcoming oneās mistrust of Jesus.
This is why I am against such a collection. Other kinds of help for these families, yes. But a straight collection for cash, no. It doesnāt allow for their faith to come through and learn to fully Trust in Jesus.
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ktp
Guest
It seems to me that we were not commanded to follow God unlessā¦
Have I been scared a few times when I got pregnant again? Yes. Scared to tell my husband, scared to tell my parents. Scared of how we were going to afford a bigger vehicle. Scared of what it would do to our finances. Scared of being pregnant again and trying to care for the other children. I was scared beyond sared when I found out we were having twins, which would push us up into the 12 and 15 passenger size vans. Scared of health problems and a c-section and a second c-section.
Thank goodness I chose to follow the Catholic Church, in its wisdom, because my fears turned out to be mostly groundless. God always provides. And even when some fears materialized-- twins did cut into our income, and I had to cancel my business lineāwell, weāre here, weāre fine, and the blessings far, FAR outweigh the fears.
Have I been scared a few times when I got pregnant again? Yes. Scared to tell my husband, scared to tell my parents. Scared of how we were going to afford a bigger vehicle. Scared of what it would do to our finances. Scared of being pregnant again and trying to care for the other children. I was scared beyond sared when I found out we were having twins, which would push us up into the 12 and 15 passenger size vans. Scared of health problems and a c-section and a second c-section.
Thank goodness I chose to follow the Catholic Church, in its wisdom, because my fears turned out to be mostly groundless. God always provides. And even when some fears materialized-- twins did cut into our income, and I had to cancel my business lineāwell, weāre here, weāre fine, and the blessings far, FAR outweigh the fears.
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Sandi
Guest
No.
Couples can have as many children as they can afford without using artificial birth control. Thereās NFP, and thereās abstinence.
Why should those who are prudent in these matters help support those who could easily avoid a situation in which they have more children than they can afford, but choose not to?
Couples can have as many children as they can afford without using artificial birth control. Thereās NFP, and thereās abstinence.
Why should those who are prudent in these matters help support those who could easily avoid a situation in which they have more children than they can afford, but choose not to?
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sing
Guest
easily? the only sure way is abstinence. and there is nothing easy about it.
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