Church Exorcist and Pro Life Priest Warns Against Harry Potter

[curlycool89]

As a matter of fact, I’ve been collecting some bits of Harry Potter fanart recently and if there ever would be an official graphic novel version, I want the style to be like… THIS!!! 8D

View attachment 9456

heaves Glad I got that off my chest…

Erm… anyways, I’m gonna be back on topic in just a bit. I just I hope made my point.

Wait a sec. Is Draco wearing leather pants?

As you can see, the same can apply to magic in a fantasy fiction setting which is really nothing more than a product of one’s imagination. It does not fall under the Church’s definition of “magic” as some occult power that draws itself from demons and bad spirits. Lot’s of things have been labeled “magic” but don’t fit the Church’s description.

Exactly. Magic is a stand largely a stand in. A plot device. Technology serves the exact same purpose in Sci-Fi. Need to go really fast? Use the Lightspeed/Hyperdrive/Warp Drive. Even though according to all the physics we have, this is impossible (aside: according to my friend in engineering physics, going faster than the speed of light is effectively time travel into the future). Effectively, you could call it magic. It’s a magic engine that lets them go as fast as the speed of plot. Because faster than light travel isn’t real.

How about those transporters from Star Trek? The idea is that it makes a digital copy of all your atoms (transforms mass to energy, which is plausible), then it destroys the “real” you, then it rebuilds you (energy to mass) at your “new” location. Of course, it’s never explained whether the new “you” is you at all. Can thoughts, feelings, personality, dreams, fears, faith, or anything of that nature be quantified and then regenerated? Can a soul be quantified and “rebuilt” by a machine? I’m in the “not likely” camp for that (and Roddenberry is an atheist, which means he didn’t care to think about it), which means that the transporter beam might as well be magic. Except Star Trek is Sci-Fi, so we call it “technology”.

“Technology” in Sci-Fi is like “magic” in Fantasy. It serves whatever need the plot has of it.

 

[Melissa]

Dickens, for example?

Honestly, with some of the depth of analysis that “anti-Potter” folk present, I’m reminded of my high school literature classes which seemed bound and determined to make one hate reading. I still point to the travesty which was done to The Count of Monte Cristo in which we were grilled on minutiae such as who was present at a particular dinner, or the color of flowers in a given scene, yet if one only skimmed the book to get the answers to the chapter questions we were given, one would have “read” the book with no idea that revenge has anything to do with the story. Ouch.

Not so unlike, however, those who rely on second- (or third-) hand criticism of the novels based on superficial analysis (the dinner guest and flower color questions) while missing the theme.

 

[Portrait]

Greetings Portrait. Hope you are keeping well.

Which rituals in Harry Potter are from the world of real wicca? (There are almost no rituals depicted in HP, by the way)

Which spells? (oculus reparo? riddukulus?)

Which potions? (Felix felicis?) (Do “real” witches brew potions? Do they drink them?)

The answer here really, however, is that what you call “witches in the real world” are drawing from the same LITERARY antecedents as Potter-world. I agree that there are those in the real world who claim to contact spirits and ask them to do their bidding, but that is not what is happening in HP. I agree that the dance-in-woods-nude crowd (don’t they itch?) certainly try to do this stuff (spells, potions, brews), but I am in no way convinced it is as effective as you seem to think. And I would argue that they are doing this stuff because that is what folklore says witches do - not because it really works.

Cheers,

JHow

Dear JHow,

Thankyou kindly for your response above.

Surely it is important in this debate to see the the bigger picture, namely that occult themes are now an increasing part of mainstream cullture. The Potter series of books is juxtaposed between a growing quantity of blatantly diabolical material for the young on the one hand, and other a tide of cultural material, including the Potter novels, that redefines good and evil in more subtler ways, usually relativistic ways as this sits comfortably with the prevailing orthodoxy. Thus the Potter tales can appear to be a healthier specimen of what has been virtually normalised all around us. However, this is precisely the time that a more prudential discernment is called for, since in the confusing array of the extremely disordered ranging to the less disordered, our perceptions can be seriously blurred.

It is undeniable that our society is saturated with false options, especially the lure of the lesser evil line of argumentation. In contradistinction to the great evil of Satanism, a lesser evil such as witchcraft (and in Potter’s case “good sorcery”), can seem preferable by far, a message actually confirmed by the Potter novels’ condemnation of the extremes of diabolical behaviour. What so many often forget is that manipulation of the “lesser evil” concept is a classical adversarial tactic in the great war between good and evil - the real war in which we are all immersed. Clearly, if this lesser evil is presented with a little window-dressing of values and a liberal ammount of sweetness and light, as in HP, we can turn to it and assume that we are making a choice for good.

It is perfectly true that the specious arguments of many pro-Potterites can sound eminently reasonable, especially given their own and others desire to be re-assured that the Potter series is culturally healthy reading material for the young and others. Moreover, their aversion to “negativity” or/and “intolerance” also helps to bolster their position. However, that does not make their arguments right or cover up the tragic loss of Christian discernment in the matter.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax

 

[Portrait]

So you are saying that in Harry Potter: The students are not witches. They do not attend a witch school. They are not learning spells and incantations being taught by other witches?

You are a hoot!

Dear Mickey,

Cordial greetings and thankyou sir for your above comment which is bang on target. Jolly well said old chap.

The fact is that the central metaphor and plot engines of the Potter series of books are witchcraft and sorcery, activities strictly prohibited by God in Sacred Scripture. As you say the student’s are witches in training, attend Hogwarts, an academy for witches, and are learning spells and incantations. These are the foundational element in the tales, notwithstanding unconvincing assertions to the contrary, which is nothing more than desperate special pleading on the part of the pro-Potterites.

Moreover, the Potter books disturbingly and repeatedly portray in a positive light, albeit in a fictional context, the abominable practices that are denounced in the stongest terms in the bible. Thus, for example, in Deutronomy 18: 9-12 enchanting, divination, charms, consulting with familiar spirits or a necromancer, or wizard are described as being “an abomination to the Lord”. That Catholics are apparently quite comfortable reading a series of books where these detestable activites are the foundational element, only serves to underscore the utter want of prudential discernment that I spoke of in my post to JHow above.

The usual response to all this is to tritely remark that the Potter novels are just “delightful fantasy” and that anyone can see that they are poles apart (or perhaps at least six digits) from the witchcraft of the real world. However, this is surely to conveniently overlook the fact that Rowling’s wizard world is interactive with the real world and indeed violates the moral order of both. The story is set in contemporary London and the English countryside. Your witches and wizards are the gnostic cabal whose secret knowledge must be hidden from ordinary people and disclosed only to initiates. The students and professors of Hogwarts are not at all unlike the personalities one would meet in any boarding school here in the UK; their difference is only in their extra-ordinary powers and bizarre activities. Some, like Potter, are likeable chaps; others are snobs and bullies. This, dearly beloved, is our world, but one in which supernatural powers are redefined as human faculties, requiring only the proper learning to be used rightly.

The whole problem with the Potter series is not so much the presence of magic, but rather how that magic is represented.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax

 

[Mickey]

The problem with the Potter series of books is that the tales are permeated with actual references to occult practices. What surely makes these novels worse than the aforementioned is the fact that these practices are intermingled with pure fantasy, so that children may be led to believe that such evil practices are likewise fantasy. That I consider to be most unacceptable as a Catholic.
Furthermore, the issue is not merely that the books might arouse a child’s interest in the occultic sub-culture, extremely worrisome though that is, but rather that the novels will desensitize children to the evil of the occult, which nowadays is a very real and present danger.

Many of those who appraise the Potter books negatively have no problem with the fantasy genre as such (though some do), but it would be naive to close our minds to the fact that it can be misused as vehicle for harmful messages - messages, I hasten to add, that can have eternal consequences.

Spot on my friend. You explain this much more eloquently than myself.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Wait a sec. Is Draco wearing leather pants?

I don’t know. I’m too focused on the moe-fied Hermione and Luna. >w<;;; (Go ahead, search “moe” on TVTropes if you dare. XD)

The other two are pretty hawt too (to think one of them is the teen Lily Evans). O///O;;;

Exactly. Magic is a stand largely a stand in. A plot device. Technology serves the exact same purpose in Sci-Fi. Need to go really fast? Use the Lightspeed/Hyperdrive/Warp Drive. Even though according to all the physics we have, this is impossible (aside: according to my friend in engineering physics, going faster than the speed of light is effectively time travel into the future). Effectively, you could call it magic. It’s a magic engine that lets them go as fast as the speed of plot. Because faster than light travel isn’t real.

How about those transporters from Star Trek? The idea is that it makes a digital copy of all your atoms (transforms mass to energy, which is plausible), then it destroys the “real” you, then it rebuilds you (energy to mass) at your “new” location. Of course, it’s never explained whether the new “you” is you at all. Can thoughts, feelings, personality, dreams, fears, faith, or anything of that nature be quantified and then regenerated? Can a soul be quantified and “rebuilt” by a machine? I’m in the “not likely” camp for that (and Roddenberry is an atheist, which means he didn’t care to think about it), which means that the transporter beam might as well be magic. Except Star Trek is Sci-Fi, so we call it “technology”.

“Technology” in Sci-Fi is like “magic” in Fantasy. It serves whatever need the plot has of it.

It’s moments like these that I always quote Clarke’s third law.

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

Honestly, fiction is just crazy… but wait, isn’t that the best thing about the imagination?
I mean, even putting a “real world” setting isn’t enough to destroy this very fact. I mean, a grand majority of superhero stories are set in the “real world”. I’m not about to believe that there was once a planet called Krypton and a city called Gotham am I?

People who use the argument that Harry Potter is different from “Christian-approved” fantasy novels because it takes place in the real world are just poor, sad saps grasping at straws. You can make up any story in the “real world”, with characters that are as a realistic as they can be, and bound by every single law of reality you have in your mind but no matter what you do, it will be nothing more than that. FICTION.

Besides, these people ever heard of alternate Earths?

 

[Mickey]

I was wondering how someone could get 11,000 posts… and then you go and do this.

Go and do what?

But no one said that the characters were not witches.

Exactly!

It seems that many (if not all) of those who are so anti-Potter have not bothered to read it for themselves, and now they are running aroung with torches and pictch forks in an effort to rally the troops in favor of what someone else said.

I do not know about torches and pitchforks, but books and movies that revolve around witchcraft should be exposed for what they are.

He has an opinion, but some of the foundation is not strong.

With all due resoect, I’ll take the opinion of the exorcist.

In the mean time, ‘I used to be amazed, now I’m just amused’

Actually, I am somewhat amazed at the defense of these books and movies by Catholics.

 

[Mickey]

Rowling writes as if these powers can somehow be channeled into good and herein lies the great danger of her books.

Yes!

Portraying these innately evil practices as if they can be harnessed for good is incontrovertibly a dangerous lie.

Indeed! Be watchful!

Rowling further confuses the issue by depicting witchcraft not as a moral issue, but as an issue of heredity; in Rowling’s world the ability to practice witchcraft is something that is inherited. However, in reality you do not need to possess a particular bloodline in order to make witchcraft work. All that is required is to tap into evil spirits, turn over your will and forsake Jesus Christ for the world of the occult.

Thus we have two falsehoods presented to children who read these unwholesome books: first, that their status as a witch is written into their genes; and second, if they are the “lucky” ones, they can use their powers for good. Now clearly these are harmful lies to teach, even in a work of fiction, because the actual reality is so different and so dangerous. This is yet another instance of Rowling’s downright irresponsibility as a children’s author.

I am going to copy some of your posts for teaching purposes. Thank you Portrait!

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Spot on my friend. You explain this much more eloquently than myself.

Eloquence is no substitute for reason. Anyone who tries is nothing more than guilty of the sin of deceit.

Then again, everyone here knows that logic and reason don’t matter much to you.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Yes!
Indeed! Be watchful!
I am going to copy some of your posts for teaching purposes. Thank you Portrait!

Oh God, those poor kids. Seriously. Thanks for giving to the cause of Richard Dawkins.

 

[Mickey]

Nice try, but you can’t wriggle out of double standards so easily.

Sacred Scripture and Holy Tradition are not tools to “wriggle out of double standards”. The CCC was just cited as yet another teaching.

If you don’t disapprove approve of Narnia for that reason, then it follows that you shouldn’t disapprove of Harry Potter

I do ot know much of Narnia. Are the characters witches attending witch schools learning spells and incantations by witch teachers?

there’s no resemblance between any real-world occult practices and Harry Potter magic,

Be watchful.

 

[LemonAndLime]

I’m curious to know what the “anti-Potter” camp thinks will happen if a Catholic reads this book.

Will they be committing a sin by reading the book?

Will they be tempted to apply to Hogwarts?

Will they suddenly develop a desire to run around with a stick and point at things saying spells?

I’ve read the books. I have no urge whatsoever to get a twig and try to make things levitate. If reading a book is a sin, are we truly back in the dark ages?

Also, I think there are bigger issues in the world that people reading a fiction series. Like, people who do actually practicse paganism, rather than the poor book-readers who don’t.

For Goodness sake people, what do you actually think might happen?

Edit: The only thing “evil” about the Potter books is Rowling’s shameless attempt to make each book as big as possible to make more profits. To the point where there is ACTUALLY a part in the last book where the characters are running around from one location to the other, complaining about how they have no idea where things are going. Yeah. Thats how bad. Not even her own characters know what to do.

 

[Mickey]

What so many often forget is that manipulation of the “lesser evil” concept is a classical adversarial tactic in the great war between good and evil - the real war in which we are all immersed. Clearly, if this lesser evil is presented with a little window-dressing of values and a liberal amount of sweetness and light, as in HP, we can turn to it and assume that we are making a choice for good.

Yes. The snares of the evil one are often subtle and disguised.

I marvel also at the craft of the devil, in that, although he is corruption and mischief itself, he suggests thoughts under the show of purity; but with the result of a snare rather than a test.
St Athanasius

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Yes. The snares of the evil one are often subtle and disguised.

I marvel also at the craft of the devil, in that, although he is corruption and mischief itself, he suggests thoughts under the show of purity; but with the result of a snare rather than a test.
St Athanasius

Indeed, he’s so good in manipulating people’s good intentions that he’s disillusioned the anti-Potters into thinking that they’re on the side of goodness, purity, and the Church when in reality they are destroying it all by making our religion look like it’s full of crazies.

 

[Mickey]

*“The child who has been educated in good literature… will not easily become an addict of contemporary movies and television programs and cheap novels that devastate the soul and take it away from the Christian path.” *
Father Seraphim Rose

 

[Mickey]

Moreover, the Potter books disturbingly and repeatedly portray in a positive light, albeit in a fictional context, the abominable practices that are denounced in the stongest terms in the bible. Thus, for example, in Deutronomy 18: 9-12 enchanting, divination, charms, consulting with familiar spirits or a necromancer, or wizard are described as being “an abomination to the Lord”. That Catholics are apparently quite comfortable reading a series of books where these detestable activites are the foundational element, only serves to underscore the utter want of prudential discernment that I spoke of in my post to JHow above.

Put you on the armour of God, that you may be able to stand against the deceits of the devil. For our wrestling is not against flesh and blood; but against principalities and power, against the rulers of the world of this darkness, against the spirits of wickedness in the high places.
Eph 6:11-12

 

[Mumbles140]

I do not know about torches and pitchforks, but books and movies that revolve around witchcraft should be exposed for what they are.

So where does the Crucible fall since it revolves around witch craft?

With all due resoect, I’ll take the opinion of the exorcist.

And I will take that of the Bishop, thank you.
Actually, I am somewhat amazed at the defense of these books and movies by Catholics.

Again, this sounds like you think Catholics who read these books are sinning. Were you possessed by demons, or did you begin worship to Satan when you read the books four years ago? I think a previous poster was right - we want to know what you all think of Catholics who have read the Harry Potter Series

On a separate note, you continue trying to distinguish the ‘good magic of Narnia and LOTR’ against the ‘Satanic incantations and spells’ of Harry Potter because Harry Potter is about school children in a school. The use of magic and divination is the issue, not that they are children. And I’m pretty sure that Narnia is about school children in a magical world - and Aslan (the Christ character in the form of a lion until the end of the series) gives her a magic potion to instantly heal those who have been injured or turned to stone. So let’s see, school children, potions, magic, creatures from mythology. Sounds about the same to me, so why the disparity in criticism?

 

[Melissa]

Mickey, do you honestly believe that double-posting and the posting of single irrelevant quotes to the topic at hand is helping to make your point? Quite frankly, your posts read as though filled with duckspeak.

The simple facts are these:

• the Church has no official opinion as to the novels written by JK Rowling
• experts are only experts within their field of expertise
• if one relies on another, rather than first-hand knowledge, one may be building on a foundation of that other’s error
• those who do not wish to read the books need not (note that (name removed by moderator), for example, is no fan of the novels)
• no sin is committed by those who choose to read the books (and/or allow their children to read the books)
• people with an inability to distinguish fact from fiction should not read the books
• the theme of the Harry Potter novels has nothing whatsoever to do with witchcraft
• the theme of the Harry Potter novels is: love and a willingness to sacrifice oneself for the good of another are virtues which evil can never comprehend and why, in the end, good will triumph over evil.

To quote Dumbledore again, “It is my belief, however, that the truth is generally preferable to lies…” (GOF, p. 722) In the end, love and a willingness to sacrifice oneself for the good of another are virtues which evil can never comprehend and why, in the end, good will triumph over evil–because love and the willingness to sacrifice oneself for another are the “deeper magic” which defeated Voldemort, the White Witch of Narnia, Emperor Palpatine, Emperor Jagang, and any other number of fictional villains whose defeat seemed impossible.

 

[Mickey]

And I will take that of the Bishop, thank you.

Who is the bishop?

we want to know what you all think of Catholics who have read the Harry Potter Series

I try not to make judgements about people based on what they read or watch or say. Everyone has free will. I can give my thoughts regarding the Potter books and movies and how I will react when it comes to my own children. I love my Catholic brothers and sisters.

On a separate note, you continue trying to distinguish the ‘good magic of Narnia and LOTR’ against the ‘Satanic incantations and spells’ of Harry Potter because Harry Potter is about school children in a school.

Not just school children in a school. Witch children who practice witchcraft in a witch school being taught by witches.

 

[Mumbles140]

Who is the bishop?

Here: catholictide.com/19/isolation-from-church-leads-more-to-occult-practice-than-harry-potter-bishop-says/ Notice it was at a conference of exorcists preceeding a USCCB conference. As was noted by Melissa above, and the Bishop touches on, it is not for those who may have difficulty discerning fact from fiction, which is something we’ve said all along - the reader should be of an appropriate age for both understanding and content.

I try not to make judgements about people based on what they read or watch or say. Everyone has free will. I can give my thoughts regarding the Potter books and movies and how I will react when it comes to my own children. I love my Catholic brothers and sisters.

But doesn’t the Bible tell you that when you feel your brother or sister is in error to try and correct them of their ways? So if you think we are wrong, if you think we are sinning, then say so - try to change our ways if you believe it is for the betterment of our soul. But if you believe that choosing to read the books has no direct effect on the salvation of our souls, then I think that your current posts in this debate should come to a close now

Not just school children in a school. Witch children who practice witchcraft in a witch school being taught by witches.

Really, if you replace ‘magic’ with ‘witch’, it loses that ‘Glenn Beck-esque’ effect to it. And again, you didn’t even touch on the similarities at the root of the issue - the magic itself, not the circumstances in how it is used. You quoted the Bible - all magic, all divination, etc, so why is it ok for Lewis and Tolkien to use it but not Rowling? Please stop with this ‘witch children’ line because it is moot - witch craft is witch craft whether done in a school with wands or using astrology to predict the future. So why condemn Potter and not Narnia or Middle-Earth? That is the real issue here, and that is, at least for me, one of the major issues I have with the anti-Potter crowd - inconsistency in the application of their standards.