Church Exorcist and Pro Life Priest Warns Against Harry Potter

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Quite frankly, your posts read as though filled with duckspeak.
I do not know about duckspeak. Is that a compliment?
the Church has no official opinion as to the novels written by JK Rowling
I know. But many laity and clergy within the Church have warned against it.
experts are only experts within their field of expertise
An exorcist carries a lot of expertise .
if one relies on another, rather than first-hand knowledge, one may be building on a foundation of that other’s error
All sources must be considered.
those who do not wish to read the books need not
Agreed.
no sin is committed by those who choose to read the books (and/or allow their children to read the books)
Who has accused people of sinning?
people with an inability to distinguish fact from fiction should not read the books
People have free will.
the theme of the Harry Potter novels has nothing whatsoever to do with witchcraft
It has everything to do with witchcraft.
the theme of the Harry Potter novels is: love and a willingness to sacrifice oneself for the good of another are virtues which evil can never comprehend and why, in the end, good will triumph over evil.
…while using witchcraft to acheive those ends. 😦
 
…while using witchcraft to acheive those ends. 😦
Right, witch craft is the means, the how, and therefore cannot be what the book is about. That means you have finally chosen to label it as a device. What we are saying is that Lewis and Tolkien use those exact same devices without drawing down the fire and brimstone upon themselves and their readers. So why the disparity?
 
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***As was noted by Melissa above, and the Bishop touches on, it is not for those who may have difficulty discerning fact from fiction, which is something we've said all along - the reader should be of an appropriate age for both understanding and content.***
In the interview, Bishop Paprocki took time to address the idea that popular books and movies aimed at children and teens, such as the boy-wizard Harry Potter series or the Twilight saga on vampires**, have encouraged interest in the occult. **

“We have to be careful with those kinds of topics for young people,” he said.
But doesn’t the Bible tell you that when you feel your brother or sister is in error to try and correct them of their ways?
Correction is not the same as judgement.**
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Really, if you replace 'magic' with 'witch',
**But they are witches.
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***Please stop with this 'witch children' line because it is moot ***
It is not moot. It is a constant of the series.****

PS—Please try to respond by not quoting inside the grey box. It is very difficult to respond when you do that. Thank you.
 
What we are saying is that Lewis and Tolkien use those exact same devices
Harry Potter fans often draw comparisons between the series and such classics as The Lord of the Rings by J.R.R. Tolkein, and the Narnia series by C.S. Lewis. In The Lord of the Rings, Tolkien - a committed and conscientiously Christian writer - purposefully attempts to reconstruct a mythical world based on the inheritance of Anglo-Saxon Orthodox England. Tolkien further takes the clear steps to base his plotlines on the idea that evil is evil, and that the use of power - particularly magical power - has an inherently self-destructive quality, which enslaves the soul, leading it away from Truth, into demonic slavery. Magic is presented as a dangerous force, and even those virtuous characters who deal with it - such as elves and the wizard Gandalf - do so with great personal caution and restraint, much like the restraint one sees demonstrated in the life of the Orthodox Church. By contrast, the disciples of Hogwarts school are not offered this lesson: it is assumed in the Rowling’s books that magic is a resource to be learned and exploited: power is in itself a neutral thing, and the difference between good and evil tends to be more a matter of whether one tries to trespass on the souls of other people.

Tolkien presents an epic which intentionally depicts the Christian struggle against the corrupting influences of the personalized use of supernatural power, in which humility is the key to spiritual freedom, and the end game is one of being rid of the burden of supernatural power. Unlike Tolkein, Rowling knits together a mere caricature of mythological history. Tolkein’s is an intentional analogy of the Christian struggle against sin and death; Rowling’s is an intentional analogy of occult libertarianism, crafted for a modern market, and those who read into it a Christian analogy are finding in it what they want to find - not that which the author has planted there. This approach in itself is a rejection of the traditional approach to literature, which seeks the lessons the author has to offer. Orthodox Christian readers should know better than to fall into this imaginative and speculative game.

The works of J.R.R. Tolkein and C.S. Lewis are fantasy literature with an explicitly Christian purpose, which have stood the test of time, and which draw on the mythology of once living Orthodox Christian cultures - yet even these qualities do not make these books required reading for Orthodox Christians, young or old. They may compliment the Orthodox life, but they are not central to it.

The Harry Potter series offers far less than these classic Christian sagas, offering the vague impressions of modernity and sprinklings of the occult as a caricature of a mythical English culture, stripped of its Orthodox Christian qualities. It, too, is not required reading for Orthodox Christians, yet for those who would choose to read it, it offers many elements which do not compliment or support the struggle to live the Orthodox life, and at least a few elements which are very real stumbling blocks to the formation of an Orthodox view of the world.

For Orthodox Christians, the biggest threat of the Harry Potter phenomenon is not something as simple as the popularization of the occult: it is the forgetfulness of the mind of the Church, the Orthodox inheritance as it is and was, intentionally expressed in cultures past and present. For Orthodox Christians bombarded by the deluge of modern pop culture, perhaps it is time to take refuge in that traditional inheritance once again - and leave Harry and Hogwarts out in the dustbin.
Father Geoffrey Korz, (Holy Cross, 2007)
orthodoxcanada.com/journal/2007-04-08.html
 
In the interview, Bishop Paprocki took time to address the idea that popular books and movies aimed at children and teens, such as the boy-wizard Harry Potter series or the Twilight saga on vampires**, have encouraged interest in the occult. **

“We have to be careful with those kinds of topics for young people,” he said.
Correction is not the same as judgement.**

**But they are witches.
It is not moot. It is a constant of the series.
PS—Please try to respond by not quoting inside the grey box. It is very difficult to respond when you do that. Thank you.

Right, we have to be careful for those who do not have the ability to discern. He also goes on further to state that it is isolation from the faith that draws youth towards the Occult, and not Harry Potter. As long as someone understands it is fiction and is well-grounded in their faith, the book poses no threat - that is PRECISELY the case we’ve been making all along, and share the same ideas as the Bishop.

And as for correction, I asked you if it was a sin to read those books - that is not judgment, so please share with us.
 
This was in response to it as a device. You have therefore admitted that the books are not ABOUT witch craft - that is not the end goal, nor the theme, nor the purpose. It is only how those goals, themes, and purposes are shown. And you have agreed. Just wanted to put that on the record.
 
** P1 **- OMITTED DUE TO SIZE

**P2:**Tolkien presents an epic which intentionally depicts the Christian struggle against the corrupting influences of the personalized use of supernatural power, in which humility is the key to spiritual freedom, and the end game is one of being rid of the burden of supernatural power. Unlike Tolkein, Rowling knits together a mere caricature of mythological history. Tolkein’s is an intentional analogy of the Christian struggle against sin and death; Rowling’s is an intentional analogy of occult libertarianism, crafted for a modern market, and those who read into it a Christian analogy are finding in it what they want to find - not that which the author has planted there. This approach in itself is a rejection of the traditional approach to literature, which seeks the lessons the author has to offer. Orthodox Christian readers should know better than to fall into this imaginative and speculative game.

See next postThe works of J.R.R. Tolkein and C.S. Lewis are fantasy literature with an explicitly Christian purpose, which have stood the test of time, and which draw on the mythology of once living Orthodox Christian cultures - yet even these qualities do not make these books required reading for Orthodox Christians, young or old. They may compliment the Orthodox life, but they are not central to it.

**P3:**The Harry Potter series offers far less than these classic Christian sagas, offering the vague impressions of modernity and sprinklings of the occult as a caricature of a mythical English culture, stripped of its Orthodox Christian qualities. It, too, is not required reading for Orthodox Christians, yet for those who would choose to read it, it offers many elements which do not compliment or support the struggle to live the Orthodox life, and at least a few elements which are very real stumbling blocks to the formation of an Orthodox view of the world.

**P4:**For Orthodox Christians, the biggest threat of the Harry Potter phenomenon is not something as simple as the popularization of the occult: it is the forgetfulness of the mind of the Church, the Orthodox inheritance as it is and was, intentionally expressed in cultures past and present. For Orthodox Christians bombarded by the deluge of modern pop culture, perhaps it is time to take refuge in that traditional inheritance once again - and leave Harry and Hogwarts out in the dustbin
Paragraph 1: Ultimately, he is making claims that don’t really exist. Gandalf does magic to amuse the children just as he does to duel with the head of his order, Saruman. It is a tool that cannot be used all the time, but I wouldn’t say it is leading Gandalf to demonic slavery. On the other hand, the use of magic resurrects him, and his sacrifice is rewarded as he is made glorious, no longer Gandalf the Grey but now Gandalf the White. Furthermore, in Harry Potter, they can only use the magic in the confines of school - are strictly punished when they don’t, and all wizards know certain spells are immoral and illegal. I would hardly call it ‘exploiting’ magic, and can remember no such instance in the book where this would be the case.

Paragraph 2: On what basis is the claim made that Rowling intentionally based her books in occult libertarianism. She herself is a ‘progressive Christian’ and I think that the obvious Christ-life references show the Christian background of the author. And her lessons that she is trying to teach are about love, self-sacrifice, fighting oppression and tyranny with virtue, not using ‘evil ways’ to accomplish your ends, etc. Furthermore, by referring to Tolkien’s work as ‘an epic’, he seems to be trying to give it a free pass on certain issues, but one could argue that the Harry Potter series is a coming-of-age epic. The similarities between the 7th book and the LOTR trilogy are not merely items to note in passing.

Paragraph 3: I’ll paraphrase for him - The other two writers are known for being Catholic/Christian, so that’s why you see those elements in their books. Rowling, though Christian, isn’t considered a Christian writer, so her uses of similar elements involving magic relate to the Occult. Oh, and they’re writing about Orthodox England, and she’s writing about modern England, with its huge numbers falling away from religion and orthodoxy. Also, note the use of the word ‘classic’. He is praising the other books - not exactly a biased literary opinion (not that I disagree that they are classics, but using that as a comparison against a relatively new series is quite unfair - give Harry Potter 50 years to withstand the test of time).

Paragraph 4: The real point of the Father’s essay - a return to orthodoxy. Harry Potter is his scapegoat of the moment - he is using it to draw people back into orthodoxy. It’s these liberal, modern Christians reading and enjoying Harry Potter who are letting in the occult, and only a turn back to strict orthodoxy can save us all from it. Sorry, I am orthodox, I attend the TLM, have marched over 10 of the last 15 years in DC at the March for Life, pray the Rosary, pray every morning and every night, etc. It isn’t about orthodoxy. At the root of his argument, he barely distinguishes between the magic of Lewis and Tolkien versus that of Rowling (and I’m not even partially convinced by his reasoning), and then goes on about orthodoxy and how Harry Potter doesn’t live up to the standards that he has based off of Lewis’ and Tolkien’s “classic Christian sagas”, now could any series he doesn’t deem fit since he is using subjective principles, not a universal moral idea to make this judgment.
 
The works of J.R.R. Tolkein and C.S. Lewis are fantasy literature with an explicitly Christian purpose, which have stood the test of time, and which draw on the mythology of once living Orthodox Christian cultures - yet even these qualities do not make these books required reading for Orthodox Christians, young or old. They may compliment the Orthodox life, but they are not central to it.
As noted in the previous post, he is using the ‘test of time’ to allow these books, but rejecting Harry Potter because it’s only from the last 10-15 years. He is again using the ‘explicitly Christian purpose’ to allow these books, but doesn’t distinguish between the magic used in them. And no one claimed they are central to the orthodox life, but they could compliment it with tales of valor, morality, virtue, etc. Those same things exist in Harry Potter, but because they weren’t written by ‘notable’ Christian writers 50-60 years ago, they aren’t worth our time.
 
Those same things exist in Harry Potter
Again…you continually ask for an explanation and I have told you that I do not know much of Lewis or Tolkein. But I found an article that I feel addresses your question aptly, and as expected, you and the other Potterites reject it. So be it. It does not take away from the fact that what you are trying to defend, is about witch children who study witchcraft at a witch school from witch teachers. 🤷
 
He also goes on further to state that it is isolation from the faith that draws youth towards the Occult, and not Harry Potter.
His quote directly addresses the Potter and Twilight saga.
I asked you if it was a sin to read those books - that is not judgment,
Yes, it is. For shame! Please stop asking me to comment on whether someone is sinning or not.
 
Again…you continually ask for an explanation and I have told you that I do not know much of Lewis or Tolkein. But I found an article that I feel addresses your question aptly, and as expected, you and the other Potterites reject it. So be it. It does not take away from the fact that what you are trying to defend, is about witch children who study witchcraft at a witch school from witch teachers. 🤷
If you want to respond to this, try reading my response of why I rejected it. And your tagline is getting a little old. We get the point you are trying to make, but let’s have a real discussion about this.
 
Indeed. If one wants to read about witch children learning how to cast spells at witch school being instructed by witch teachers…that is their choice.
 
On the contrary…everything about the series is laced with witchcraft, whether you choose to believe it or not.
You are blatantly contradicting yourself. You said Rowling uses witch craft to achieve her ends. If witch craft is the means, it cannot be the ends - that is impossible to be. So even though there is witch craft in her books, witch craft is neither the theme nor the purpose of her books. Agreed?
 
As noted in the previous post, he is using the ‘test of time’ to allow these books, but rejecting Harry Potter because it’s only from the last 10-15 years. He is again using the ‘explicitly Christian purpose’ to allow these books, but doesn’t distinguish between the magic used in them. And no one claimed they are central to the orthodox life, but they could compliment it with tales of valor, morality, virtue, etc. Those same things exist in Harry Potter, but because they weren’t written by ‘notable’ Christian writers 50-60 years ago, they aren’t worth our time.
Ah, Nostalgism. Yearning for a past that never happened.

I see that the “anti” camp passed over my comparison of “magic” in fantasy with “technology” in sci-fi too. I thought that was quite ingenious actually. I guess under these guy’s definition we’ll have to label Star Wars, Star Trek, Doctor Who, Stargate, and James Bond as demonic since they use magic technology 😉

It’s always easier to try and ignore something you can’t respond to because you know they’re right. Pretend it didn’t happen and move on. Because actually responding would force you to think about the issue, and Heaven forbid that someone ever have to do a self-examination. :rolleyes:
On the contrary…everything about the series is laced with witchcraft, whether you choose to believe it or not.
And Star Wars is laced with magic technology (and actually came fairly close to having incest in the story line). Star Wars has made a ton of money and is one of the greatest influences of the entire Sci-Fi genre. Why no alarmism on Star Wars then?
The geeks and nerds are the biggest camp that probably being led to non-belief, so why no love for them? Are they the expendable sheep?

And yet you worry about HP and the occult when it’s never been proven that anyone’s ever gone to the occult because of HP? Yes, we should spend all of our time worrying about non-problems because addressing the actual problems would be too hard.
 
Sigh. And yet again we have come full circle. I have become weary of another Potter thread. The Catholic Potterites descend on these threads like vultures. 😃

This is my last post here…and on any future Potter threads. I want to thank you** Portrait** for your wonderfully eloquent and enlightening posts concerning the subject. You have been able to put it into words much better than myself. Your posts ring out with truth!

Thank you.

Blessed Nativity to everyone!
 
His quote directly addresses the Potter and Twilight saga.
Yes, it is. For shame! Please stop asking me to comment on whether someone is sinning or not.
First, his quote, as is shown by the article, is that it is isolation from faith that is leading people to the occult. He knows that, though Harry Potter and other books can cause confusion for those not at the proper age to discern fact from fiction, specifically those not rooted in their faith, they are NOT the real danger. By acting like they are, you are seemingly trying to trivialize the real occult, and that is extremely more dangerous.

Also, the underlying part of this entire thread has been that those Catholics who have read Harry Potter are bad Catholics. Whether you or others have said it directly, or merely implied it by touting their personal ‘strength of faith’ as a reason they haven’t read it (which leads to infer that those readers are of weak faith), it is there. In the course of debating HP, it has become the elephant in the room. And no one wants to come out and say it, but us who support the series want someone to stand up and say if they think it is a sin. I’m sorry for pressuring you about it, but my point was that if you don’t believe it is a sin, then you really lose your basis for attacking the series.
 
Sigh. And yet again we have come full circle. I have become weary of another Potter thread. The Catholic Potterites descend on these threads like vultures. 😃

This is my last post here…and on any future Potter threads. I want to thank you** Portrait** for your wonderfully eloquent and enlightening posts concerning the subject. You have been able to put it into words much better than myself. Your posts ring out with truth!

Thank you.

Blessed Nativity to everyone!
It is a shame to see you go, especially with so many of our valid objections you have yet to consult - not that I blame you, but realize that we have valid truths, and the support of clergy, behind our statements. The Church provides nothing authoritative on the matter, so if you choose not to read it, that is fine, but it is wrong to condemn it for all when even the Church has not dared to make such a claim.
 
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