P
Portrait
Guest
Dear mdrummer5,
What is your source for stating that the Vatican has approved of the Potter series?
Warmest good wishes,
Portrait
Pax
- Status
What is your source for stating that the Vatican has approved of the Potter series?
Warmest good wishes,
Portrait
Pax
M
mdrummer5
Guest
Ok… but we’re not talking about the author… we’re talking about the books. Nobody’s negating the point you’ve made regarding her. But you have yet to show without contradiction how that makes the books in any way immoral.
P
Portrait
Guest
Dear mdrummer,
Hello again.
The problem is that the commentator Michael O’ Brien, like you, has read and inwardly digested the entire Potter series and is telling me of the unwholsesome content that pervades those tales, thus what reason do I have for ignoring him and not listening to what he is telling me? That is of no help whatsoever and proves absolutely nothing Why should I listen to you sir any more than Mr. O’ Brien?
Warmest good wishes,
Portrait
Pax
M
mdrummer5
Guest
And again you fail to answer the question…
Do you or do you not point out someone’s incorrect view of the Bible if they try to tell you it’s contradictory?
Furthermore I’m not saying you should listen to me, I’m saying you should use your own brain and read them yourself before you make such bold assumptions based on one review especially when so many (including The Vatican) share a different view.
As I just pointed out The Vatican seems ok with it. So if you’re going to ask why Michael O’Brien over anyone… maybe consider that The Vatican disagrees. While originally opposed to the HP series they’ve had a change of heart after the more recent films.
Lastly consider just how ludicrous what you’re saying sounds…
“Michael O’ Brien … is telling me of the unwholsesome content that pervades those tales, thus what reason do I have for ignoring him and not listening to what he is telling me?”
I’m sure at some point you’ve heard a mother (maybe even your own) say something to the effect of… if he jumped off a cliff, would you? I don’t care who he is or what his credentials are, the majority of the people here and The Vatican have a different view and you’re still too stubborn to admit that you might have misjudged them.
M
masha
Guest
I agree that reading the commentators on the Da Vinci Code can give us a fairly consistent understanding of the book’s flaws in relation to Catholicism, especially because the majority of Catholic critics were in agreement. But I can’t agree that reading the critics gives an understanding of the book itself…the majority of issues with the Da Vinci Code weren’t covered by many Catholic commentators because they had no relation to the Church, they were flaws in perspective, in understanding, and in basic writing skills. If you stick to the critics, you generally miss the full understanding of the complete literary failure that is the Da Vinci Code, and it seems much more threatening in commentary.
I haven’t heard the Vatican say anything officially either way on Harry Potter, they generally don’t make pronouncements on children’s books, and it would seem strange for the Vatican to stamp approval on Harry Potter, not only because their exorcist obviously doesn’t approve, but also because it would set an obnoxious precedent: some poor Vatican official would end up reading every piece of fiction out there!
As for Michael O Brian, I’ve never read his critique, I know nothing about him, and his opinion means nothing at all to me, I realize that other posters put a lot of faith in his commentaries, but I tend to avoid critics.
Blessings
M
Mumbles140
Guest
First, let’s stop calling her a children’s author - it isn’t like she is writing The Hungry Caterpillar or The Bernstein Bears go to Wizarding School. She writes books where the minimum age is probably 10-12 for the first book, and then gets progressively older from there. I think this is a major distinction that I feel is something you should reasonably concede. It isn’t impressionable 6 year olds reading these books, and if they are, then that is something to be taken up with their parents.
Also, I’m not sure about you, but when I was a child, I didn’t care what any author said unless they wrote it in the books I was reading. Granted, the internet didn’t become popular in households until I was about 12 or 13, but I think you are making too much speculation concerning the weight her words have on the average reader.
Lastly, I also cannot speak for you, but from my own experience, I knew what a homosexual was by the time I was in middle school (12-14 years of age), and I was aware of the Church’s teaching that being a homosexual is not a sin - acting on it is. And I give credit to anyone with same sex attractions who chooses to remain chaste rather than sin in the same manner that the virgin saints did of old. In this respect, Dumbledore deserves even more praise because she may have ‘wrote him’ (again, her comment was that she always thought of him as, which leans more to inspiration than actualization) as a homosexual who resisted that temptation to sin and chose to live a life of chastity rather than commit such acts. I feel that you are treating this as if she is introducing homosexuality to pre-schoolers and kids in kindergarten, and I think this is very naive on your part.
Just to gain a frame of reference from you (and if you choose not to answer, that is fine and I completely understand), but do you have children?
M
Mumbles140
Guest
Why should you listen any more to O’Brien than to the Bishop who said Harry Potter isn’t dangerous to our children?
M
Melissa
Guest
Actually, reading the critique of Mr. O’Brien suggests that he has not “read and inwardly digested” the series. His critique is rife with special pleadings and inconsistencies. His critique reads as though the conclusion was reached first, and then the novels were read with an eye to “proving” the conclusion. However, if one doesn’t accept the conclusion as a premise, the entire argument of his critique unravels like a sweater with a loose thread.
P
Portrait
Guest
Dear mdrummer,
Cordial greetings and a very good day to you. Thankyou for your response above.
First, may I apologise to you, and to any other contributor to this thread, if my replies were a little too trenchant yesterday. No offence was intended but, as I am sure you can appreciate, in any lively interchange of argument it is all to easy to get carried away sometimes. Cut and thrust of debate and all that sort of stuff, hey what.
Your analogy with Sacred Scipture is seriously flawed because, unlike the Potter series of books, it has been written down under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit and is in truth the very Word of God. Therefore we can with confidence, provided our beliefs are in accord with the teaching of the Church, seek to amend any doctrinal and moral errors that our fellow men have sadly embraced through ignorance or/and prejudice. Since the Potter books are only human compositions, when we seek to straighten out the errors and alleged inconsistencies and specious arguments of those opposed to these novels, we must bear in mind that we are only offering our own very subjective opinions. Thus, for example, if one makes the assertion that they have ‘exploded’ the arguments of the ant-Potterites by the force of logic and rational reasoning, they are only saying that they have done so in their own biased opinion. After all, they have a particular position that they are striving to uphold come what may. True, this does indeed cut both ways and applies equally to those opposed to the Potter series, nevertheless, it does, in the final analysis, all boil down to a man’s prejudices and very partial viewpoint.
Thus when I, and other Catholics, read Michael O’ Brien’s erudite and cogent exposure of the
culturally unwholesome nature of the Potter books and their insidious dangers, we are using our little grey cells and are making a genuine effort to weigh the arguments and evidence. You are, of course, at perfect liberty, given that our Church has made no official pronoucement on Potter, to strongly disagree with our conclusions and our interpretation of the evidence, and say that Mr. O’ Brien is guilty of this that or the other, but that is your opinion and interpretation of the evidence. One can even say that O ’ Brien is from “a bizarro world”, as was said by estesbob earlier in the thread. However, none of this means that one has necessarily made out an unanswerable case against your antagonist in the Potter controversy.
As yet, mdrummer, you have not responded to my question as to your source for asserting that the Vatican office has approved the Potter series of books. Are you alluding to the accolades concerning the Potter books in* L ’ Osservatoree Romano*? If that is the case, then it would cut no ice with any man who was well informed about this very liberal newspaper. It is not the official organ of the Catholic Church, but merely a sort of quasi-official Vatican Newspaper. At any rate it is not regulated by the Curia. Therefore, just because something appears within its pages, that clearly does not mean that it has Vatican approval. The mainstream media all too frequently err in this regard also. Thus Catholics ought to take what they read in this partisan newspaper with the proverbial grain of salt, especially in recent times under its new progressive editor. If you were not refering to this publication then I apologise in advance, but I am unaware of any official approval of the Potter series of books.
God bless you.
Warmest good wishes,
Portrait
Pax
P
Portrait
Guest
Dear Melissa,
Cordial greetings and hope all is well.
The above wide of the mark comments are a typical example of the subjective and prejudiced pro-Potterite opinion of which I have just been speaking Whilst one is is entitled to express such an opinion, if they were to read and ponder carefully Michael O ’ Brien’s articles regarding the Potter series on his excellent web site, then they would find them to be very compelling and certainly not replete with “special pleadings and inconsistencies”. As they say Stateside, go and check it out for yourselves.
One could also quite easily say that the pro-Potterites read the novels “with an eye to proving the conclusion” because they are desperate to defend these books against any and all criticism come what may, as these boards evince most clearly.
Mr. O’ Brien’s agruments are, as a matter of fact, quite tightly knit and hold together exceedingly well.
Warmest good wishes,
Portrait
Pax
M
mdrummer5
Guest
It is not flawed and yet again, you still don’t get it… to an Atheist The Sacred Scripture is NOT written under any inspiration of the Holy Spirit and is NOT the word of God. It is a collection of elaborate moral (fictional) stories (some of which are considered contradictory by Atheists) and nothing more.
Your failure to view such a thing from someone else’s perspetcive speaks volumes about your ignorance as does your inability to think for yourself or speak from your own experience (as you have none on this subject).
The info pertaining to The Vatican’s approval was actually in another thread here. Assuming you may be correct in stating the Vatican has not “officially” approved the books they’ve also not been disapproved and there are priests that believe different than the reviewer who’s opinion you hold so high as shown here…
vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/cultr/documents/rc_pc_cultr_20021612_doc_iv-2002-not_en.html
The fact that The Vatican has a positive review on it’s website is probably about as close as we’re going to get to an “official” ruling on this.
I find all of this completely irrelevant however as it’s quite clear that it doesn’t matter how many people (even if some are priests) say the books are ok or explain how. You are too ignorant towards real and personal knowledge and are happy to sit on the sidelines while taking someone else’s word as though it’s the gospel without considering other views.
P
Portrait
Guest
Dear Mumbles140,
Cordial greetings and a very good day.
That fact remains that J.K. Rowling is recognised globaly as a writer of children’s books and as such has a moral obligation towards her young readership, especially with respect to irresponsible and immoral comments. This much has been conceded.
Her comments may not be introducing the young to actual homosexual acts of deparavity, but they are certainly likely to brainwash them into wrongly thinking that homosexual liaisons are a perfectly ‘cool’ alternative and should not be considered unnatural or abominable. Holding the progressive opinions that she does, she most probably regards herself as some agent for social change and wants the emerging generation of young people to be accepting of homosexual unions, thus banishing from society what she perceives as the last vestiges of prejudice and ‘homophobia’.
Young children and even early adolecents are extremely influenceable. Moreover, they are easy targets for godless indoctrination and we should never underestimate that fact. Indeed, it is happening in our midst already.
Warmest good wishes,
Portrait
Pax
M
Mumbles140
Guest
First off, prove any claim you made in the first paragraph. Please, I beg of you. You are merely citing things to be inciteful. We are talking about comments (irrelevant to the series under debate) made by the author after all books were written, and you are acting like someone is going around to our elementary schools saying everyone should be a homosexual. Seriously, you are assuming things not only about the state of the world, but also on the personal beliefs of someone you don’t personally know. Where was it ever implied that ‘homosexual liaisons’ were a ‘cool alternative’? I mean seriously, where do you come up with this stuff?
Furthermore, I will once again echo the words of the Bishop: It is not Harry Potter, but rather the isolation from faith, that is drawing people to the Occult. This argument is the crux of the anti-Potter group, but I think we can apply it to an understanding of homosexuality as well.
Please answer this question for me. If you have a role model you respect, and then later found out they were gay but living a celibate life, would you no longer respect them?
M
Mumbles140
Guest
So you have yet again preached about O’Brien, but have you read the critique of his work? Because the person who critiqued him has, and has made valid claims, using actual examples, to support his idea. You, on the other hand, have blindly thrown about ‘culturally unwholesome’ and ‘insidious dangers’, implied we aren’t using our God-given intellect, and refuse to pay attention to the flaws in O’Brien’s arguments.
The irony of it all is that, in your response to Melissa, you call for us to ‘go check it out for ourselves’, but you refuse to do the same.
P
Portrait
Guest
Dear mdrummer5,
Cordial greetings and again thankyou for your response to my post.
Whilst it is quite true that an atheist disavows any belief in the inspiration and authority of Sacred Scripture, we, as informed Catholics, know the case to be otherwise and have complete certitude as to the veracity of the bible’s holy teachings on faith and morals. In other words we are are not here in the realm of subjective and fallible human opinion, which may vary considerably depending on one’s prejudices and bias. In contradistinction, the Potter tales are pure fantasy fiction and men will entertain differing opinions as to their merits or demerits. Nevertheless, opinions they are and as such they are on a wholly different footing to the unerring doctrine of God’s Word. Now of course men will endeavour to persuade others by reasoned argument and debate that they have the truth on their side and this is perfectly acceptable, provided that they do not claim some sort of authority that is not rightfully theirs to claim. A non believer’s disbelief in biblical inspiration and his scoffing at the very idea, does not alter the fact and we can instruct him with confidence because we have the authority of Christ’s Church behind us. Clearly such is not the case with the Potter series of books, which are mere fallible works of fiction, which men are free to view either favourably or unfavourably.
The link that you provide does not, it is quite true, speak disparagingly of the Potter series, however, a ‘positive review’ is not giving a rubber stamp endorsement of the books. Moeover, this is not necessarily the definitive word of the Vatican office on the subject. Indeed, it may be forced to to revisit the issue in the not too distant future given that there are now fears that an increasing number of teenagers are being enticed into Wicca, the occulltic sub culture and neo-paganism by the heroic portrayal of witches in contemporary entertainment, including the Harry Potter films. In response to these growing fears the Catholic Truth Society here in the U.K. has just published a guide on how to convert witches to the Catholic Faith.
Warmest good wishes,
Portrait
Pax
M
mdrummer5
Guest
Please show us what proof you have that
- There is an increased number of people pursuing Wicca or any other occult practice.
- That the HP books are the cause of it.
Yes or no to the first questions bolded in your quote.
And simple distinctive facts for the later portion… show me statistics. Tell me that X% more teens are being drawn into the occult and the accompanying study that proves it has anything to do with HP.
Otherwise quit wasting my time.
S
styrgwillidar
Guest
snopes.com/humor/iftrue/potter.asp
Snopes is a site dedicated to debunking myths/rumors. You know, things like Captain Kangaroo was a green beret.
Their take, no, no measurable or quantifiable rise in interest in the occult due to HP. Now, I will not dispute that there may have been one or two individuals who were affected. But those same folks could just as easily be attracted to the occult by depictions of magic in LOTR, Narnia, Frosty the Snowman or a book on ESP.
Snopes is a site dedicated to debunking myths/rumors. You know, things like Captain Kangaroo was a green beret.
Their take, no, no measurable or quantifiable rise in interest in the occult due to HP. Now, I will not dispute that there may have been one or two individuals who were affected. But those same folks could just as easily be attracted to the occult by depictions of magic in LOTR, Narnia, Frosty the Snowman or a book on ESP.
P
Portrait
Guest
F.A.O. mdrummer
Dear mdrummer,
Cordial greetings and a very good day. Thankyou for your most recent response.
It does rather seem that we have been at cross purposes, owing to my misunderstanding of your meaning. My apologies dear friend. Now I think I understand the gist of what you are saying and will endeavour to answer your questions.
First, when attempting to correct a man’s erroneous beliefs, a Catholic would resort not to the bible only, as Protestant’s are apt to do, but also to the teachings of his Church as well. So yes and no to that question.
Hopefully, all devout Catholics would, or should, have a good working knowledge of the bible, but even those most familiar with its contents might have to have recourse to it when they are asked a specific question by a sceptic or an honest seeker after truth. Unless one is endowed with a very tenacious memory, one simply will not be able to remember everything within God’s most holy Word. Moreover, whilst their are many literary genres and varieties within Sacred Scripture, the bible is, for the purposes of establishing doctrine, more in the nature of a reference tool than a novel. Thus in discussion appeal is made to various texts and passages in support of a particular doctrinal position (always taking into account what the Church has said on a particular issue of course). Therefore I cannot see how the Sacred Scriptures are analagous with the Potter tales which are fictional works written soley for the purposes of enjoyment and entertainment. Clearly, ones personal knowledge of Sacred Scripture, even if one is an avid bible reader, can still be deficient unless memory’s retention is exceptional.
Many times have I heard the Potter fanatics adamantly assert on these boards that Rowling’s series will not entice children into the real world of witchcraft or other aspects of the occult. This is in spite of the fact that some occultist themselves have acknowledged that some (and even one child would be one too many) children are being led into the occultic sub culture owing to the interest promoted by the fictional witchcraft. Thus BBC News Online reported:
“The pagan federation, which represents druids and witches, says it has been “swamped” with calls following teenage programmes featuring good witches. Speaking to BBC Online the Pagan Federation’s Steve Paine, the high priest of a coven, said the hit US drama Buffy and the *highly successful Harry Potter books * were popular amongst practising witches. “They are taken as fantasy entertainment. But they do encourage people to think about different forms of spirituality”, he said. The Pagan Federation, which deals with about 100 enquiries a month from youngsters who want to become witches does not allow anyone under the age of 18 to become a member”. Most of the enquiries are from 14-18 year olds and are dealt with “reactively” by a specially-appointed youth officer, an Essex based school teacher".
Thus it is incontrovertible that the Potter tales does lure some children into the occult - it would take very special pleading indeed to deny that the Potter series has not encouraged (name removed by moderator)ressionable children to think about the whole topic of witchcraft and that among those 100 enquiries a month to the Pagan Federation, from youngsters desirous of beoming witches, their were no Potter fans.
Moreover, given that that BBC News report was from the year 2000, just at the commencement of Potter mania, it makes one shudder in horror to think of the many children that have been sucked into the occult since that time because their interest in witchcraft was first stimulated by reading the Potter books.
Unfortunately, many Catholic parent’s have negligently allowed their precious children to be desensitized to the real occultic world by the Potter series of books, no wonder Father Euteneuer, refered to by the OP, flet compelled to speak as he did. Moreover, this demonstrates the total lack of discernment by Catholics, who’s consciences are so spiritually blunted that they are unable to see that these culturally unhealthy and inferior books present a very clear and present danger to their children.
Warmest good wishes,
Portrait
Pax
Dear mdrummer,
Cordial greetings and a very good day. Thankyou for your most recent response.
It does rather seem that we have been at cross purposes, owing to my misunderstanding of your meaning. My apologies dear friend. Now I think I understand the gist of what you are saying and will endeavour to answer your questions.
First, when attempting to correct a man’s erroneous beliefs, a Catholic would resort not to the bible only, as Protestant’s are apt to do, but also to the teachings of his Church as well. So yes and no to that question.
Hopefully, all devout Catholics would, or should, have a good working knowledge of the bible, but even those most familiar with its contents might have to have recourse to it when they are asked a specific question by a sceptic or an honest seeker after truth. Unless one is endowed with a very tenacious memory, one simply will not be able to remember everything within God’s most holy Word. Moreover, whilst their are many literary genres and varieties within Sacred Scripture, the bible is, for the purposes of establishing doctrine, more in the nature of a reference tool than a novel. Thus in discussion appeal is made to various texts and passages in support of a particular doctrinal position (always taking into account what the Church has said on a particular issue of course). Therefore I cannot see how the Sacred Scriptures are analagous with the Potter tales which are fictional works written soley for the purposes of enjoyment and entertainment. Clearly, ones personal knowledge of Sacred Scripture, even if one is an avid bible reader, can still be deficient unless memory’s retention is exceptional.
Many times have I heard the Potter fanatics adamantly assert on these boards that Rowling’s series will not entice children into the real world of witchcraft or other aspects of the occult. This is in spite of the fact that some occultist themselves have acknowledged that some (and even one child would be one too many) children are being led into the occultic sub culture owing to the interest promoted by the fictional witchcraft. Thus BBC News Online reported:
“The pagan federation, which represents druids and witches, says it has been “swamped” with calls following teenage programmes featuring good witches. Speaking to BBC Online the Pagan Federation’s Steve Paine, the high priest of a coven, said the hit US drama Buffy and the *highly successful Harry Potter books * were popular amongst practising witches. “They are taken as fantasy entertainment. But they do encourage people to think about different forms of spirituality”, he said. The Pagan Federation, which deals with about 100 enquiries a month from youngsters who want to become witches does not allow anyone under the age of 18 to become a member”. Most of the enquiries are from 14-18 year olds and are dealt with “reactively” by a specially-appointed youth officer, an Essex based school teacher".
Thus it is incontrovertible that the Potter tales does lure some children into the occult - it would take very special pleading indeed to deny that the Potter series has not encouraged (name removed by moderator)ressionable children to think about the whole topic of witchcraft and that among those 100 enquiries a month to the Pagan Federation, from youngsters desirous of beoming witches, their were no Potter fans.
Moreover, given that that BBC News report was from the year 2000, just at the commencement of Potter mania, it makes one shudder in horror to think of the many children that have been sucked into the occult since that time because their interest in witchcraft was first stimulated by reading the Potter books.
Unfortunately, many Catholic parent’s have negligently allowed their precious children to be desensitized to the real occultic world by the Potter series of books, no wonder Father Euteneuer, refered to by the OP, flet compelled to speak as he did. Moreover, this demonstrates the total lack of discernment by Catholics, who’s consciences are so spiritually blunted that they are unable to see that these culturally unhealthy and inferior books present a very clear and present danger to their children.
Warmest good wishes,
Portrait
Pax
M
Mumbles140
Guest
And that is the type of information the Bishop was responding to when he said it is the isolation from the faith, NOT Harry Potter, that is drawing the youth to the occult. If you are a teenager already part of or interested in the Occult, and read a good series of books about other teenager wizards, of course you will think it is cool. But we have said over and over that these books are not appropriate for people who cannot tell the difference between fiction and reality, so this completely nullifies your argument.
We aren’t saying everyone should read the books. I’ve repeated this many times but I will again for your own sake, Portrait. We are arguing that these books pose no danger, whether in terms of the Occult or the occasion of sin, to those Catholics of an appropriate age (again, this is a sliding scale depending on which book in the series) with strong enough faith to understand that the Occult is a real and dangerous thing, but it is not related to Harry Potter.
Those who can’t discern between fantasy fiction and the Occult should not read these books. Those who aren’t of a mature enough age to read (probably below 10-11 for the first book, probably at least 16-18 for the final book) should not read these books. But for good, devoted, practicing Catholics who can enjoyably read the series, pick out the moral and social issues presented, and go on with their lives have no danger in reading them, so why do you think they do?
Also, I asked you a direct question that I really wanted an answer to, unless you are willing to concede the entire argument against the books (it is irrelevant how we feel about Rowlings) pertaining to homosexuality. I appreciate you willing to debate, and I understand you have about 3 different lines of debate going now, but if you want to pick and choose what to respond to, or dodge direct questions, then we will cease to have this conversation anymore because our strong points are being ignored by you.
We aren’t saying everyone should read the books. I’ve repeated this many times but I will again for your own sake, Portrait. We are arguing that these books pose no danger, whether in terms of the Occult or the occasion of sin, to those Catholics of an appropriate age (again, this is a sliding scale depending on which book in the series) with strong enough faith to understand that the Occult is a real and dangerous thing, but it is not related to Harry Potter.
Those who can’t discern between fantasy fiction and the Occult should not read these books. Those who aren’t of a mature enough age to read (probably below 10-11 for the first book, probably at least 16-18 for the final book) should not read these books. But for good, devoted, practicing Catholics who can enjoyably read the series, pick out the moral and social issues presented, and go on with their lives have no danger in reading them, so why do you think they do?
Also, I asked you a direct question that I really wanted an answer to, unless you are willing to concede the entire argument against the books (it is irrelevant how we feel about Rowlings) pertaining to homosexuality. I appreciate you willing to debate, and I understand you have about 3 different lines of debate going now, but if you want to pick and choose what to respond to, or dodge direct questions, then we will cease to have this conversation anymore because our strong points are being ignored by you.
M
mdrummer5
Guest
Once again you fail to give simple facts and straight answers. Why? Because you have none. It amazes me that while you feel it necessary to use your very extensive vocabulary to give bogus answers that amount to nothing but you circling around the truth you can’t simply say yes or no.
One Pagan saying that HP encourages thought about different forms of spirituality is no different than one Priest saying that the HP books are ok yet you refuse to recognize that because you blatantly avoid certain facts when they do not suit your argument. Interesting coming from the one that implied that those of us in support of HP were “cheap debaters”. Tell me how it’s different, tell me how you ignore that some priests have said HP is ok but you jump on one Pagan that supports your claim and does a lame job of that.
The 100 inquiries a month you refer to mean nothing. It’s a simple matter of logic and numbers. Given how popular the books are it stands to reason that of course some of those hundred may have been fans of the books. That doesn’t mean that they are responsible for the child’s interest.
The last book in the series sold over 44 million copies. That’s not including library rentals and/or borrowing from friends or family, not to mention people that have seen the movies but have not read the books. It’s safe to say that the number of people who have read the books or seen the movies totals over 50 million.
That’s 1200 people a year out of 50 MILLION. Let’s assume that while you have no facts to support it that each of those 1200 was influenced by nothing but the HP books, that’s 16,800 since the first book was published in 1997. That’s 16,800 out of 50 MILLION which is a fraction of a percent (0.000336%) that is not a phenomenon. It’s a coincidence.
You want to prove your point? Show me that sometime after the last book was published (2007) Pagan inquiries among teens went up by millions. Let’s say that only 20 million of the 50 million that read or watched the HP stories are teens… well… 1 million would only be 5% of those. Surely when it’s as incontrovertbible and as blatantly obvious as you’d have us believe you can prove that 5% of the teens who’ve read the HP books then turned to the occult.
Oh… you can’t… see, I gave you facts and gave you logic pertaining to those facts. You have no facts. Without facts you have no proof. Without proof your continued arguing on this topic makes you look either stubborn or stupid. I don’t believe you’re stupid so you can stick to your claim all you want to but ultimately you can’t support it with anything other than your own close minded stubborness.
- Status