Church Exorcist and Pro Life Priest Warns Against Harry Potter

[Mickey]

Mickey and Portrait and others,

Just wanted to make clear: I do not see you as ‘anti-potterites’ but as fellow Catholics with a sincere concern for my and my children’s spiritual well-being. For that, and your time, you have my sincere appreciation.

Thank you my brother in Christ. Peace and prayers to you and yours.

 

[Mickey]

What exactly is a “Potterite?”

I suppose it is kind of a made up word to reference those who vehemntly defend the Potter series while attempting to attach some sort of Christian virtues to it.

 

[Mickey]

mdrummer,

You state that ‘there are no real witches in dark basements brewing love potions and spells’. I am sorry to tell you that you are wrong. There are thousands (if not more) of people calling themselves witches and brewing potions and spells. Wicca is even recognised in the US as a religion, and Wiccans have a ‘chaplain’ equivalent in the armed forces and in prisons. I can’t vouch for the ‘dark basements’ however - at least not in the UK where most homes don’t have them and if they have a floor below ground it is often called the ‘cellar’ and less well used than those in the US. Most urban solitary witches use their kitchens and sitting rooms anyway.

If you want to know how people end up in witchcraft as explained and experienced by (non Catholic) academic sociologist try reading Persuasions of the Witch’s Craft by T. M. Luhrman. As far as I remember she acknowledges the role of fantasy literature in leading to involvement in the occult and handily cites a very long book list and references.

I suppose by referring to ‘real’ you might be drawing a distinction between those whose spells work and those who are incompetent; however the CC does not draw this distinction and simply refers, as does scripture, to the practise of the occult which is what witches do.

God Bless

Good post!

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

I do not believe that the Church has ever taught such a thing.

It has never taught against it either. And seeing as you’re Orthodox, I wouldn’t put myself in a position to claim what the Church teaches.

It is all supernatural. It is all occultic. I believe you are deluding yourself. These are witches making potions and casting spells.

Not in the Harry Potter universe.

And as I have pointed out…sometimes the line is blurred between “good” and “bad” cahracters. The occultic themes are projected by many of the characters. For example, in the “Prisoner of Azkaban” Harry is told in the classroom that “This year we are going to learn the basic methods of the divination.”****

You’re obviously not aware at how Divination is seen as a frivolous and superstitious subject by many characters (Hermione Granger especially).

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Insults???

Calling you a cheap debater, saying that you lack faith, that you’re blind to the obvious. Those are insults. These are the kinds of things that Portrait has said to those of us who present him with facts because he has none of his own to add… just like you don’t.

I wouldn’t waste my time with Mickey either if I were you dude. He only accepts logic and reasoning if it suits him. If not, it is irrelevant and switches back to the blind faith of fundamentalist. If you disagree with him and challenge him incessantly, he will put you on his ignore list and claim that all your arguments are insults.

I have his exact quotes verifying this. Trust me. He is hardly worth any of your attention.

 

[kwitz]

I haven’t actually read any of the Harry Potter books so I’m relatively unbiased but for some crazy reason I’ve been lurking on this thread (yes, for the whole, 1000+ posts ) and before it gets shut down, I want to thank all the “potterites” for doing an excellent job of presenting logical arguments. It almost inspires to go out and read the whole series! What has been presented as “logic” from the anti-magic side has been incredibly unconvincing and ridiculously inconsistent.

Carry on!!

Kris

 

[Mickey]

What has been presented as “logic” from the anti-magic side has been incredibly unconvincing and ridiculously inconsistent.

And I pray that for every lurker who has been convinced by the Potterites to embrace this occultic series, there will be ten more who decide to ignore it.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

And I pray that for every lurker who has been convinced by the Potterites to embrace this occultic series, there will be ten more who decide to ignore it.

Not all prayers are answered.
And for good Reason.

 

[mdrummer5]

I wouldn’t waste my time with Mickey either if I were you dude. He only accepts logic and reasoning if it suits him. If not, it is irrelevant and switches back to the blind faith of fundamentalist. If you disagree with him and challenge him incessantly, he will put you on his ignore list and claim that all your arguments are insults.

I have his exact quotes verifying this. Trust me. He is hardly worth any of your attention.

Oh, I gathered that since he stopped reading the very post of mine you quoted at “saying you lack faith” and assumed I was referring to him specifically and at that point announced he would be ignoring me…

It’s scary how much it reminds me of the kind of person that caused me to reject God for so long… oh well

 

[mdrummer5]

I haven’t actually read any of the Harry Potter books so I’m relatively unbiased but for some crazy reason I’ve been lurking on this thread (yes, for the whole, 1000+ posts ) and before it gets shut down, I want to thank all the “potterites” for doing an excellent job of presenting logical arguments. It almost inspires to go out and read the whole series! What has been presented as “logic” from the anti-magic side has been incredibly unconvincing and ridiculously inconsistent.

Carry on!!

Kris

Please do!!!

Just make sure you come back and let us know when you’ve decided to join Wicca

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Please do!!!

Just make sure you come back and let us know when you’ve decided to join Wicca

Forget that, tell him to let us know if Wiccans have learned how to conjure fire, ice, and lightning bolts out of thin air. Then I’d start worrying.

 

[Fone_Bone_2001]

It is all supernatural. It is all occultic. I believe you are deluding yourself. These are witches making potions and casting spells.

No, Mickey, it’s not, and I’ll try to explain why again:

As you know, real-world magic - real-world occult practices - require human beings to obtain power from some kind of supernatural being. Obviously we don’t have “magical” powers ourselves, so the Church forbids all occult practices of any kind because they involve using abilities that human beings must get from elsewhere - and in this case, that “elsewhere” is demons.

Right?

Now, since Harry Potter is of the fantasy genre, that means its author can and has invented for her novels a structure that has no correlation to anything in the real world. In this world, some human beings are actually born with purely natural abilities that regular humans do not have.

No invocation/sorcery ever happens in the series, not even with the bad guys. Granted, there are morally nasty spells - mind control, torture, death-inflicting - but even these evil abilities do not come from any higher power.

Furthermore, I’m telling you as one who has read the books that it is plain as day that regular humans like you and I have no chance whatsoever of having or using any “magical” abilities in Rowling’s world.

In Rowling’s world, the minority of magical individuals call most of the human race “Muggles” - non-magical. The magical abilities in the books are innate, natural, and inborn - not learned, occultic, or invocational. There are literally no exceptions.

And as I have pointed out…sometimes the line is blurred between “good” and “bad” cahracters. The occultic themes are projected by many of the characters. For example, in the “Prisoner of Azkaban” Harry is told in the classroom that “This year we are going to learn the basic methods of the divination.”****

And he and his friends quickly learn that such attempts at “divination” are either (a) a sham, or (b) counterproductive. As others have explained to you, the villain Voldemort ultimately seals his doom by listening to what he thinks he has learned through divination.

I think it’s telling that the only “magical” practice in the books that remotely resembles - though superficially and aesthetically only - any real-world practices, is also ridiculed and made to look useless, boring, and even dangerous.

I haven’t actually read any of the Harry Potter books so I’m relatively unbiased but for some crazy reason I’ve been lurking on this thread (yes, for the whole, 1000+ posts ) and before it gets shut down, I want to thank all the “potterites” for doing an excellent job of presenting logical arguments. It almost inspires to go out and read the whole series! What has been presented as “logic” from the anti-magic side has been incredibly unconvincing and ridiculously inconsistent.

Carry on!!

Kris

Thanks, Kris. I know our interlocutors mean well on every level, but I really am convinced that their concerns are 100% unjustified and that Harry Potter is not only harmless but wholesome. I’m glad you’re convinced!

They’re also really fun and exciting books, in addition to being inspirational and sobering. If you get a chance, I highly recommend them.

 

[kwitz]

And I pray that for every lurker who has been convinced by the Potterites to embrace this occultic series, there will be ten more who decide to ignore it.

I would think that’s slim to none based on the evidence and reasoning you’ve presented. Prayers are your best hope. (as they always are!)

 

[Fone_Bone_2001]

A reminder for everyone: it usually happens that there are way too many Harry Potter threads at one time on these forums, so I highly recommend that if we want to continue after this thread closes, we go here to this thread.

 

[mdrummer5]

Forget that, tell him to let us know if Wiccans have learned how to conjure fire, ice, and lightning bolts out of thin air. Then I’d start worrying.

You must’ve missed the post from Fran65 claiming that their are real witches brewing potions and casting real spells… thousands I think she said.

 

[Mickey]

I would think that’s slim to none

I think you would be surprised.

 

[Joe_5859]

No, we won’t have to start a new one (God forbid). This one still has plenty of room in it.

And hey, it’s started by the same OP, too. We’ll all feel right at home!

We’re over 1000 posts now. Posting on borrowed time…

 

[Portrait]

You too. I’m pleased to have found an opportunity now to respond to your criticisms. Thank you again for dealing in specificity - it really gets the conversation somewhere.

That said, as someone who has read the series multiple times, I’m certain your concerns about its portrayal of authority and obedience are baseless.

When Harry and his friends disobey the rules, one of two things always results:

(a) They are reprimanded and punished by a legitimate authority. When this happens they are almost always contrite, and the narrator presents the situation in a way that makes Harry and his friends look unnecessarily reckless and guilty.

(b) They either get away with it, or - if not - the narrator presents their disobedience as nonetheless virtuous or justified. I’ll address this below.

Dear Fone Bone,

Cordial greetings and a very good day to you my dear friend. Trust that you had splendid weekend. Thankyou kindly for your detailed responses to my post of last Friday.

Let me say by way of reply that the Potter boy is hardly the epitome of charitableness and forbearance; if someone should make an enemy of him, then Potter will wage war on that individual with every weapon at his disposal. The Christian notion of turning the other cheek or using a soft answer to avert wrath (Prov. 15: 1) is quite absent from the tales. Moreover, even the more sober voices, such as that of his friend Hermione (whom apparently Rowling has said most resembles herself), generally admonish Potter on purely prudential grounds and not moral ones. The message conveyed to young readers by this is that one only need be concerned with the avoidance of undesired consequences, not any issues about what is the right or the wrong course of action to pursue from a moral standpoint. Christian critics of the books quite rightly find this most unsatisfactory inasmuch as it gives the impression that one should act only on the basis of what is in one’s best interests, not what is morally correct or appropriate.

Unfortunately the Potter series does have the recurring theme of rule breaking and this has understandably raised some grave moral concerns and not without good reason. Sorry old chap but your rationalization and specious explanations just do not cut the mustard. True, sometimes Potter is legitimately driven by necessity to break a rule, but at other times it is only on the basis of a whim; sometimes he is indeed punished, but sometimes he is not. Many supporters, who are at pains to defend the series come what may, are quick to point out that this is just honest storytelling which depicts a typically imperfect young fellow whose behaviour sometimes leaves a little to be desired? At first glance this all sounds superficially plausible (in fact, like so much pro-Potter argumentation), yet closer scrutiny reveals that Potter and co. are only ever punished for an infraction of the rules when they are caught by one of the nasty authority figures, particularly the spiteful Professor Snape. When it is one of the benevolent authority figures, such as the genial Dumbledore, or even stern Professor Mc Gonagall, there are just no real consquences for breaking the rules. Why?, because Potter is considered ‘cool’ boy or his heart is in the right place, or because he is a boy of destiny, or some such sentimental and inadequate reason. Surely the problem with all of this is perfectly obvious to those with no theory to uphold - if you are a ‘cool’ and charming boy or girl then you can escape punishment, save from supossedely malicious and unfriendly authority figures whom nobody likes anyway. This will insidously suggest to children that, any teacher, parent etc., who is rigorous as regards discipline and is not duped by a false charm, must of necessity be some malevolent ogre whom one is therefore free to disrespect and ignore.

It must be conceded that these are genuine legitimate concerns and, to date, I have not read anything either from yourself dear Fone Bone or any other pro-Potter polemecist that effectively dispels these concerns and shows them to be entirely baseless.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax

 

[Mickey]

Now, since Harry Potter is of the fantasy genre, that means its author can and has invented for her novels a structure that has no correlation to anything in the real world.

You can call it fantasy if you like. But the story line centers around witch children going to witch school while learning how to be experienced witches from adult witch teachers.

In this world, some human beings are actually born with purely natural abilities that regular humans do not have.

Yeah. They were born witches.

No invocation/sorcery ever happens in the series, not even with the bad guys.

Huh? The series is laced with references to astrology, spells, necromancy, magic, familial ghosts (spiritism), talismans, chiromancy etc.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

And I pray that for every lurker who has been convinced by the Potterites to embrace this occultic series, there will be ten more who decide to ignore it.

Have you read it?

Have you read LOTR? The Narnia series?

I often wonder whether the people who are frightened of HP would be scared of anything make-believe.

There is more than enough satanic influence out in the real world: the sacrament of abortion to name but one. HP is a smoke screen to get people to ignore the true peril.