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rcwitness
Guest
Who is the doctor? I’m asking why no one respects a canon law. And a beautiful one. More beautiful and profound than abstaining from meat on Fridays! And no less a canon law.
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Chicken_Pigeon
Guest
I think we do respect the canon law
BokbokBAWK!!
BokbokBAWK!!
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rcwitness
Guest
How do you respect the one I’m talking about?
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His_helpmeet
Guest
We are telling you that your wife is an adult who makes her own decisions. You can’t require her to submit to canon law because that has to be HER decision. You can’t make her live with you. You can’t forbid her from filing for divorce.
YOU can decide that you don’t want to file. You can decide that you won’t leave without checking with a priest first. But you cannot dictate what another adult can or cannot do.
What she’s doing isn’t right. But you can’t try to control her. It’s not that we don’t respect the canon. We are saying you cannot force your wife, another adult with autonomy and free will, to accept the canon.
YOU can decide that you don’t want to file. You can decide that you won’t leave without checking with a priest first. But you cannot dictate what another adult can or cannot do.
What she’s doing isn’t right. But you can’t try to control her. It’s not that we don’t respect the canon. We are saying you cannot force your wife, another adult with autonomy and free will, to accept the canon.
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Chicken_Pigeon
Guest
I agree with it as a canon law. A separation is justified when there’s a just cause excuses them. A spouse has the right to sever conjugal living when the other spouse has committed adultery. Seems fair to me. If a spouse has suffered grave mental or physical anguish they can leave. Seems fair. And after six months the innocent spouse can be moved to forgive the fault…yada yada
Your incessant posts try imply that you’re the innocent spouse. However there have been many times you’ve said things that make us question if you truly are.
bokbok
Your incessant posts try imply that you’re the innocent spouse. However there have been many times you’ve said things that make us question if you truly are.
bokbok
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rcwitness
Guest
Obviously you dont understand. You’re not understanding at all! Would you like to try?
First of all, a Church sanctioned separation is one thing, and a civil divorce is another. First, you need to understand that!
A separation can be approved for a relatively wide range of reasons (which can even be determined on our own authority). But the Church must be made aware. During that separation, terms should be arranged for counseling, including a time frame. After that time frame, if the ecclesiastical authorities find the innocent spouse to be justified to pursue civil divorce, then they offer them their approval!
If NOT, then the “innocent” spouse must have their OWN issues which they arent addressing, and so are NOT justified to rightly file a judgment against the other spouse.
From there, either spouse can do whatever they want, but they will not have the support of the Church to do so, and in that case, their filing divorce would be sinful. And grave sin committed with knowledge and free will is Mortal!
This is actually a very easy to understand concept!
You see? No one is forced to do anything, but neither are they patted on the back for sinning. And the Church has a duty to admonish one or both of their trespasses against the Christian faith.
First of all, a Church sanctioned separation is one thing, and a civil divorce is another. First, you need to understand that!
A separation can be approved for a relatively wide range of reasons (which can even be determined on our own authority). But the Church must be made aware. During that separation, terms should be arranged for counseling, including a time frame. After that time frame, if the ecclesiastical authorities find the innocent spouse to be justified to pursue civil divorce, then they offer them their approval!
If NOT, then the “innocent” spouse must have their OWN issues which they arent addressing, and so are NOT justified to rightly file a judgment against the other spouse.
From there, either spouse can do whatever they want, but they will not have the support of the Church to do so, and in that case, their filing divorce would be sinful. And grave sin committed with knowledge and free will is Mortal!
This is actually a very easy to understand concept!
You see? No one is forced to do anything, but neither are they patted on the back for sinning. And the Church has a duty to admonish one or both of their trespasses against the Christian faith.
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rcwitness
Guest
The whole point, is that the Church is requiring the Bishop or his delegate to approve of their decision to file for civil divorce. Until that is offered, the spouse cannot file divorce In clear conscience.
Divorce is a grave offense to God. There may be justified reasons that one is being forced to take such measures, but they must have the Bishop’s support.
It’s actually a brilliant and wise canon! You cannot judge another person, while you have your own SERIOUS issues against the faith.
This is Catholic Law. Whether you like it, or not.
Roman’s 2
“Do you suppose, O man, that when you judge those who do such things and yet do them yourself, you will escape the judgment of God? Or do you presume upon the riches of his kindness and forbearance and patience? Do you not know that God’s kindness is meant to lead you to repentance?.. You who say that one must not commit adultery, do you commit adultery?.. You who boast in the law, do you dishonor God by breaking the law?”
The Church will not approve of judging others when you do the same things, or worse!
True healing does not result from judging others, unless the Church is lawfully convicting the abuser, and that abuser is unrepentive.
Divorce is a grave offense to God. There may be justified reasons that one is being forced to take such measures, but they must have the Bishop’s support.
It’s actually a brilliant and wise canon! You cannot judge another person, while you have your own SERIOUS issues against the faith.
This is Catholic Law. Whether you like it, or not.
Roman’s 2
“Do you suppose, O man, that when you judge those who do such things and yet do them yourself, you will escape the judgment of God? Or do you presume upon the riches of his kindness and forbearance and patience? Do you not know that God’s kindness is meant to lead you to repentance?.. You who say that one must not commit adultery, do you commit adultery?.. You who boast in the law, do you dishonor God by breaking the law?”
The Church will not approve of judging others when you do the same things, or worse!
True healing does not result from judging others, unless the Church is lawfully convicting the abuser, and that abuser is unrepentive.
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angel12
Guest
He is in a great deal of pain over the separation from his wife. We can’t stop him from coming here to rehash everything over and over, but we can limit how much, and how, we respond. My personal opinion (and that’s all it is) is that counseling would be a better place for him to deal with this. All we can do at this point is keep him and his family in prayer.You’re acting very strange. It’s like you’re a patient who goes to the doctor who is asking about one ailment and the doctor notices something else and you get mad at the doctor for not answering what you came there for. Maybe there are more pressing issues that you’re not seeing. People here are trying to help. All of your posts are the same. It’s incessant. Just stop.
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rcwitness
Guest
That’s a bit respectful. So thank you, in part. But I’m not here complaining about my wife. I’m actually ok with the pain. Pain is unavoidable, and in fact we are called to suffer many times in Scripture. I haven’t actually initiated ANYTHING about my personal relationship. That was from posters who think they understand my situation and make their own judgments. I am actually being respectful and rational. I try to refute their assumptions, but am not here to “hash out” anything about my situation. I’ve been learning more and more about separation, civil divorce, and annulments constantly for the past couple years. And when I discovered this canon, I was both encouraged in the Catholic faith, and discouraged about its neglect by laity and clergy alike.
I just want to raise awareness to this law in our faith. And it’s actually beautiful to me. It gave me hope that our Church actually has the tools and guidance to help the attack on Marriage troubles.
But it’s being stifled! It’s being neglected.
Catholics are bound to respect this canon, no less than any other canon law. And clergy are no exception.
I think it’s a very challenging thing for clergy to accept, because it requires them to invest alot of themselves into pastoring! Many clergy would rather not get involved. And I would rather they didn’t have to share that responsibility with our troubles either. That’s why I believe in working out our problems ourselves. But when one spouse decides to judge the other, then they have a duty to involve the Church.
I just want to raise awareness to this law in our faith. And it’s actually beautiful to me. It gave me hope that our Church actually has the tools and guidance to help the attack on Marriage troubles.
But it’s being stifled! It’s being neglected.
Catholics are bound to respect this canon, no less than any other canon law. And clergy are no exception.
I think it’s a very challenging thing for clergy to accept, because it requires them to invest alot of themselves into pastoring! Many clergy would rather not get involved. And I would rather they didn’t have to share that responsibility with our troubles either. That’s why I believe in working out our problems ourselves. But when one spouse decides to judge the other, then they have a duty to involve the Church.
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rcwitness
Guest
If you dont understand it, then dont criticize it. Of you want to understand it, ask a professional.
I do understand it, and appreciate it. The Holy Spirit has counselled me over it. And I am willing to talk to any clergy about it.
I do understand it, and appreciate it. The Holy Spirit has counselled me over it. And I am willing to talk to any clergy about it.
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Tis_Bearself
Patron
Um…this is a discussion board. People criticize as part of discussion. The fact that a law may be difficult for people to understand, is in itself a valid ground for criticism, because if people don’t understand it, then clergy will have trouble applying it and people will have trouble following it.If you dont understand it, then dont criticize it
It’s generally not a good idea to start threads on a topic if you don’t want anyone to criticize or disagree. I’ve rarely seen any topic on this forum where everybody chimes in agreeing completely with the OP.
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