Church influenced birth procedure that ruined women's lives, says report

[pepipop]

Barbaric practice ?
I know in medicine techniques. The technique was bad. If it was used since the 1600s then it should be “baddest”. I mean there are extremely violent medical techniques today which are perfectly successful and bring no pain.
So, the whole thing is rather strange unless explained thoroughly.

There was a lady on the TV show last night who had it done at 18, without her consent. The procedure involves breaking bones in the pelvic area, which do not necessarily heal properly or reset in a another position. When she was released from hospital she could not walk at all, and went on to have permanent incontinence and numerous other symptoms, cancer of the womb etc.

Ireland continued with the practice due to the high mortality rate for caesarean:-

“Research has shown that the procedure of symphiosotomy was performed in Ireland from the early 20th century. This was at a time when Caesarean Section had a high mortality rate due to sepsis (blood poisoning) and symphiosotomy was regarded as a life-saving measure for both mother and baby. From 1950’s onwards, symphysiotomy was gradually replaced by the modern Caesarean Section as antibiotics were available by then to treat infection and sepsis was less of a hazard.”

A statement from a discussion at the Irish parliament:-

The Minister said symphysiotomy is not a barbaric act. In strict terms, he is correct. Amputation is not a barbaric act but the amputation of a healthy limb by a medical professional would be a barbaric act. What was perpetrated on these women needlessly, unnecessarily and with their knowledge was barbarism by medical professionals. It shocks us to the core to think it could have happened.

debates.oireachtas.ie/dail/2012/03/15/00005.asp

 

[pepipop]

Well i spoke too soon. The same discussion programme is on again, (on every night) and this time the moderator is cursing and swearing whilst talking to a guest priest that it was the catholic church’s fault that this procedure was used, as people were told they would go to hell if they used birth control as it was a mortal sin - hence the use of this procedure. The priest is being put between a rock and a hard place, saying he has never heard of the procedure before and it was the medical profession carried it out, they are also criticising the nuns on the ward that they were no better.

Ireland’s media has become so ‘anti-catholic’ it is beyond belief. I can only assume, last night, the TV channel was warned to retract their statement from Monday night, but have since decided they can blame it all on the CC. The same channel falsely accused a priest of fathering a child in Africa, that the priest vehemently denied, however they aired a documentary about it on TV - last year. A subsequent DNA test cleared the priest and the channel were fined - egg on face big time.

The moderator is now throwing the entire shabang at the priest, and raising his voice quite aggressively - saying some catholic culture to impose on Ireland - i.e. child abuse, the head of the church in Ireland involved in interviewing children, etc… The priest cannot get a word in and is very uncomfortable.

 

[grannymh]

Well i spoke too soon. The same discussion programme is on again, (on every night) and this time the moderator is cursing and swearing whilst talking to a guest priest that it was the catholic church’s fault that this procedure was used, as people were told they would go to hell if they used birth control as it was a mortal sin - hence the use of this procedure. The priest is being put between a rock and a hard place, saying he has never heard of the procedure before and it was the medical profession carried it out, they are also criticising the nuns on the ward that they were no better.

Ireland’s media has become so ‘anti-catholic’ it is beyond belief. I can only assume, last night, the TV channel was warned to retract their statement from Monday night, but have since decided they can blame it all on the CC. The same channel falsely accused a priest of fathering a child in Africa, that the priest vehemently denied, however they aired a documentary about it on TV - last year. A subsequent DNA test cleared the priest and the channel were fined - egg on face big time.

The moderator is now throwing the entire shabang at the priest, and raising his voice quite aggressively - saying some catholic culture to impose on Ireland - i.e. child abuse, the head of the church in Ireland involved in interviewing children, etc… The priest cannot get a word in and is very uncomfortable.

Here at the RDS, (Eucharistic Congress in Dublin) hundreds of people, including many priests, keep coming to the “prayer space” to kneel before Our Merciful Lord, truly present in the Eucharist before us. There are lines of people waiting in quiet prayer to receive the Sacrament of Reconciliation. I am grateful for the Irish priest who heard my confession.

In the exhibition area, a 16 year-old pro-life boy shared his love of God with me. The old, me the granny from the U.S., and all others are joining together as the universal Catholic Church. We stand with our Irish sisters and brothers.

We are one body of one Lord, Jesus, Who hung bleeding on the cross so that we will see a “resurrection” – new life in our beloved Church.

 

[Crescentinus]

There is but one reason that the media does this. It is because the consensus media in the West is predominantly anti-Catholic!

 

[AngryAtheist8]

During the week of the eucharistic congress in Ireland, it would seem the media have to attach another scandal to the church. This procedure - a symphysiotomie - has been used since the 16th century and no doubt saved a lot of babies and mothers at the time, however in the 1940’s Ireland reintroduced and continued to use such barbaric practices until 1980’s, ruining numerous women’s lives. It was covered quite extensively by the media in 2010 and documentaries showed the devastating effect on the women involved. The reasons for Irish hospitals re-introducing this procedure in the '40’s, are now being blamed on the catholic church, as noted in the media articles below.

irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2012/0612/1224317755314.html

*A DRAFT report commissioned by the Government into the use of a controversial childbirth operation says one of the reasons it was used was to obey laws influenced by the Catholic Church that banned contraception and sterilisation.

It is estimated up to 1,500 women underwent symphysiotomies – an operation to widen the pelvis – between the mid-1940s and mid-1980s. The procedure has since been linked with lifelong health problems such as incontinence, chronic pain and mobility problems.

A draft report to be published by the Department of Health this week will show use of symphysiotomies was at its peak in Ireland when it had declined in the rest of Europe.*

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symphysiotomy

Symphysiotomy is a surgical procedure in which the cartilage of the pubic symphysis is divided to widen the pelvis allowing childbirth when there is a mechanical problem. It is also known as pelviotomy,[1] synchondrotomy,[1], pubiotomy,[2], and Gigli’s operation after Leonardo Gigli, who invented a saw commonly used in Europe to accomplish the operation.

politico.ie/social-issues/8350-call-for-full-inquiry-into-use-of-symphysiotomy-in-irish-hospitals.html

*Sinn Féin spokesperson on health Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin today called for a full inquiry into symphysiotomy, a practice he described as “a clinical scandal on a par with the clerical scandals we have seen exposed in the past two decades”.

Symphysiotomy is a procedure which involves breaking a woman’s pelvis, resulting in its being permanently widened by up to 3.5 cms. It was used in Ireland between the 1940s and 1990s “as an alternative to caesarean section in cases of obstructed labour”. Symphysiotomies were carried out on about 1,500 women in Ireland between 1944 and 1992. The Institute of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists say the procedure may give rise to walking difficulties, pelvic joint pain and urinary incontinence in those who undergo it.
*
*Speaking in the Dáil today, Ó Caoláin said: "Symphysiotomy was the imposition by clinicians in Irish hospitals of a certain Catholic ideology that saw the role of women solely as the bearers of Catholic children, a role to which their bodies and their rights were to be wholly subsumed.

*

I can’t think of any (good) reason to perform this procedure if there are decent alternatives.

 

[AngryAtheist8]

Actually, there is a discussion about symphysiotomy, in Ireland, on TV at present. The reason they were inferring that the CC was involved was because the procedure was carried out in predominantly catholic hospitals in Ireland, the inference being that the CC did not wish women to use ‘family planning’ through sterilisation or cesarean - i.e. a limited number of children. Which makes no sense as the CC promotes NFP.

However the moderator, who stated last night that the CC was involved, has now retracted his statement and said there is NO evidence that this was sanctioned by the church. The discussion has been directed towards the government that has not acknowledged the barbaric practice and recompense for victims.

That’s a good point.
Of course the Catholic Church was responsible on some level, since it dominated (and still dominates) professional health care in Ireland.

 

[trolololo]

This article should clarify things independent.ie/opinion/analysis/david-quinn-church-is-victim-of-the-blame-game-yet-again-3139150.html
@ Angry Atheist as an Irish person who is often in and out of our delightful health system I can tell you sincerely the church does not rule over it, not in the hospitals I’ve been in anyway.

 

[LisaA]

That’s a good point.
Of course the Catholic Church was responsible on some level, since it dominated (and still dominates) professional health care in Ireland.

Dominated? If you mean there were more Catholic Hospitals, no doubt as this is a very proud tradition in our faith. If you think that Priests or Religious were telling doctors what procedures to use, you are completely wrong. The judgment and decision of the doctor has been revered for generations. Yes Catholic hospitals do prohibit certain procedures. I work in a Catholic hospitals and we won’t do abortions or sterilizations. OTOH the idea that someone from the Archdiocese would have been looking over the drapes and telling the doctor what to do is ridiculous.

Given that this procedure dates back a while, understand that Caesereans were not considered safe for mother or child at the time. Although from a looking backward view it sounds like a really unfortunate practice but it’s certainly not the only medical practice that was discarded after advances.

BTW no wonder you are angry if you are an Atheist. Come live in the light!
Lisa

 

[seekerz]

I think that hindsight provides a very poor light in which to examine such matters. Why the practice persisted in Ireland for the years that it did seems to be simply speculation, because I don’t see any evidence being presented that the Church supported or opposed it.

The answer would, in all probability, lie with the motivation and reasoning underlying the procedure and the source of that motivation/reasoning. If it was as a result of wanting to avoid the more serious complications of Cesarean section, then there might have been medical justification, based on what care was available in those times. If it was chosen (instead of Cesareans) to make it easier for women to have large families, then one might say, given what is now known about the complications, that there was no medical justification.

 

[AngryAtheist8]

Dominated? If you mean there were more Catholic Hospitals, no doubt as this is a very proud tradition in our faith. If you think that Priests or Religious were telling doctors what procedures to use, you are completely wrong. The judgment and decision of the doctor has been revered for generations. Yes Catholic hospitals do prohibit certain procedures. I work in a Catholic hospitals and we won’t do abortions or sterilizations. OTOH the idea that someone from the Archdiocese would have been looking over the drapes and telling the doctor what to do is ridiculous.

Given that this procedure dates back a while, understand that Caesereans were not considered safe for mother or child at the time. Although from a looking backward view it sounds like a really unfortunate practice but it’s certainly not the only medical practice that was discarded after advances.

BTW no wonder you are angry if you are an Atheist. Come live in the light!
Lisa

I was in an apocalypse cult known as the Church Universal and Triumphant as a child.
I have already had more than my fair share of religion.

 

[LisaA]

I was in an apocalypse cult known as the Church Universal and Triumphant as a child.
I have already had more than my fair share of religion.

Well obviously you were in the wrong faith tradition if it made you so bitter. Look around, you might find the Wholeness of Truth as a better option for life

Lisa

 

[Holly3278]

Satan is working very hard through evil people and through other means to destroy the Church in Ireland. We need to pray stronger than ever for the Church in Ireland that a renewal would come to it.

Saint Patrick, holy patron of Ireland, please pray for a renewal to sweep through the Irish Church. Amen.

 

[grannymh]

Satan is working very hard through evil people and through other means to destroy the Church in Ireland. We need to pray stronger than ever for the Church in Ireland that a renewal would come to it.

Saint Patrick, holy patron of Ireland, please pray for a renewal to sweep through the Irish Church. Amen.

I was at the 50th International Eucharistic Congress in Dublin. One of the halls in the RDS had Eucharistic Adoration. Hundreds of people, including many priests kept coming in to kneel before our loving Savior. In Dublih, the universal Catholic Church was standing in union with our Irish sisters and brothers.

If I may offer a suggestion. All of us, wherever we live, should offer petitions or prayers for Ireland at the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. Those of us who are fortunate to have Eucharistic Adoration should spend a bit of extra time in prayer for our universal Church.

Among the thousands which attended the Dublin Congress, there was a sense of healing as people attended daily Mass, adored God truly present in the Blessed Sacrament and made the Sacrament of Reconciliation.