Church leaders back govt on anti-gay Bill

[Zoe_Brain]

Church leaders back govt on anti-gay Bill

Risdel Kasasira
Kampala

At least 200 senior religious leaders in Uganda have thrown their weight behind the government backing it not to “yield to pressure” from donor countries that are demanding the withdrawal of the Anti-Homosexuality Bill before Parliament.

Under their umbrella organisation of the Inter-religious Council of Uganda (IRC), the clerics have recommended that the government should think of cutting diplomatic ties with countries that are bent on forcing homosexuality on Ugandans.

.

More…
monitor.co.ug/artman/publish/news/Church_leaders_back_govt_on_anti-gay_Bill_95758.shtml

Opponents of the bill say the existing anti-gay laws which provide for lengthy jail terms are enough. The IRC wants to back the new laws - life imprisonment unless convicted of a previous offense, then it’s the Death penalty. Any gay with HIV will also be executed.

 

[Transformer]

What the heck are the bishops over there doing!?

The Bill is ok. But it has been misunderstood. We need to educate people on this proposed law

WHAT IS IT WE DON’T UNDERSTAND!?

 

[rlg94086]

monitor.co.ug/artman/publish/news/Church_leaders_back_govt_on_anti-gay_Bill_95758.shtml

Opponents of the bill say the existing anti-gay laws which provide for lengthy jail terms are enough. The IRC wants to back the new laws - life imprisonment unless convicted of a previous offense, then it’s the Death penalty. Any gay with HIV will also be executed.

Do you have any quotes from Catholic Bishops saying they support this bill? The only thing I found is an older article (a few weeks ago) stating that they haven’t been vocal:
ncronline.org/blogs/all-things-catholic/anti-gay-bill-uganda-challenges-catholics-take-stand

Reaction from religious leaders has been mixed. Leaders from the Anglican, Pentecostal/Evangelical and Islamic traditions in Uganda testified during parliamentary hearings, broadly endorsing the spirit of the bill, though some objected to the death penalty provisions. International pressure is growing within the Anglican Communion to take a stand against the measure, which has already been denounced by the Anglican Church of Canada.

It’s entirely possible, however, that such moves may backfire, stirring resistance to outside interference. One local Anglican prelate said this in the wake of the Canadian resolution: “Ugandan Parliament, the watch dog of our laws, please go ahead and put the anti-gay laws in place. It is then that we become truly accountable to our young and to this country, not to Canada or England. We are in charge!”

To date, there’s been little public comment from Uganda’s Catholic leadership.

In some ways, the bishops are between a rock and a hard place. They may not like the harsher elements of the bill, but they also share the suspicion that Western forces are trying to cram a liberal social agenda down Africa’s throat, and they don’t want to discourage efforts to defend African values. (In truth, bishops across Africa feel this way, including many seen in the West as “liberal” on matters such as the environment, trading relationships and armed conflict. Assertion of a Western campaign to subvert Africa’s family values loomed large during the recent Synod for Africa in Rome.)

As time goes on, Catholic silence will be increasingly unsustainable, especially if the bill comes up for a vote.

I would be interested in seeing a quote from a Catholic Bishop or two, rather than an article lumping all members of the IRC as supporting the bill.

 

[onthenarrowpath]

I find it quite pathetic that they consider it a “spiritual value” to go around killing their enemies. ANY Ugandan Christian leader who believes it is acceptable to jail, or kill, homosexuals, is seriously deluded, and in fact not a true Christian at all. How can one profess to be a follower of Jesus Christ, yet condone the killing of his/her enemies? Did not our Lord and Saviour instruct us to LOVE our enemies, and to bless those who curse us?

I feel sorry for Ugandans. If there are some who support this bill, they themselves do not deserve freedom. Why should they be given freedom since what they truly believe in is tyranny?

 

[kabuchu]

The Anti-Homosexuality Bill does not propose execution of HIV positive gays. Rather it creates the offence called Aggravated homosexuality—which is committted by deliberate spread of HIV by a homosexual person. The sentence is death even though I must point out that no single convicted criminal has been executed since 1999. The president himself does not favour the death penalty. The Supreme Court has also put in place restrictions (Attorney General vs Susan Kigula–available online) that make it practically impossible for a convict to be executed. I think the sentence of death even in these circumstances is unreasonable and it will probably be revised.

The Bill also targets organisations that are promoting homosexuality in Uganda by proposing to deregister them. It also seeks to protect Uganda from dubious interpretations of international human rights instruments that use phrases such as sexual orientation, sexual rights etal to legitimize homosexuality. Where Uganda is signatory to a treaty containing the said phrases, the Bill wishes to clarify that this does not amount to an endorsement of homosexual relations, marriage etc

Catholic Bishops have been quiet as far as I can see. The only objectionable provisions in the Bill are the unreasonable sentences—and parliament will probably drop them.

Considering the harm that homosexual lobbyists and their supporters in the courts, academia, media and entertainment world are doing, this Bill is called for to protect Uganda.

The Bill is really a statement of intent and nothing more. Prostitution and incest are also criminal offences but no one has ever been convicted but for public record, they are offences under our penal law.

 

[Corki]

The Anti-Homosexuality Bill does not propose execution of HIV positive gays. Rather it creates the offence called Aggravated homosexuality—which is committted by deliberate spread of HIV by a homosexual person. The sentence is death even though I must point out that no single convicted criminal has been executed since 1999. The president himself does not favour the death penalty. The Supreme Court has also put in place restrictions (Attorney General vs Susan Kigula–available online) that make it practically impossible for a convict to be executed. I think the sentence of death even in these circumstances is unreasonable and it will probably be revised.

The Bill also targets organisations that are promoting homosexuality in Uganda by proposing to deregister them. It also seeks to protect Uganda from dubious interpretations of international human rights instruments that use phrases such as sexual orientation, sexual rights etal to legitimize homosexuality. Where Uganda is signatory to a treaty containing the said phrases, the Bill wishes to clarify that this does not amount to an endorsement of homosexual relations, marriage etc

Catholic Bishops have been quiet as far as I can see. The only objectionable provisions in the Bill are the unreasonable sentences—and parliament will probably drop them.

Considering the harm that homosexual lobbyists and their supporters in the courts, academia, media and entertainment world are doing, this Bill is called for to protect Uganda.

The Bill is really a statement of intent and nothing more. Prostitution and incest are also criminal offences but no one has ever been convicted but for public record, they are offences under our penal law.

Thank you for a reasoned and rational analysis.

 

[Zoe_Brain]

Thank you for a reasoned and rational analysis.

Except that he omitted the bit about “serial offenders” also being guilty of “aggravated homosexuality”.

Anyone who has ever been convicted of any previous offense under existing anti-gay laws, or who (say) is convicted of distributing literature calling for gays not to be put to death, is deemed a “serial offender”. And thus subject to the Death Penalty.

To say that it’s only aimed at people with HiV is a lie, pure and simple.

It’s not as if homosexuality wasn’t already illegal in Uganda before this bill was introduced.

 

[JReducation]

I can’t imagine the Catholic bishops advocating for executions and long prison sentences on this score. The Church’s position on capital punishment is very clear. You would have to prove that there is no way of protecting the innocent but to execute. The long prison terms are not that clear to me. I don’t understand what would constitute cause for a long prison term. I understand what the bill is saying, but how does one prove this without abusing the legal system? The Catholic Church doesn’t even promote long prison terms for those who commit abortions and that’s a more fundamental violation of human rights.

I’m also very confused, because they mention the Episcopalians. The Episcopalians have always been more liberal on gay issues than most other Christians.

There is something wrong with the way that this article was written. As Catholics we are to promote the dignity of life from conception to natural death, not executions and laws that can be abused. If the article said that the Christians of that country had adopted a Pro-Life position and were passing laws to protect life, marriage, family and children in a manner that is consistent with the faith, it would make sense. But that’s not what it says. The article says that they are protecting themselves from homosexuality. Nothing is said about family, marriage, abortion, domestic violence, abuse of children, promiscuity and so forth.

I want to see what the bishops themselves say, not some umbrella organization that is being quoted by a third party.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[rlg94086]

I want to see what the bishops themselves say, not some umbrella organization that is being quoted by a third party.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

That is the bottomline for me, Brother. We’ve been through this before…very recently! Just because a group our bishops belong to, or are affiliated with, support something, does not mean that the bishops agree with the group stance.

 

[JReducation]

That is the bottomline for me, Brother. We’ve been through this before…very recently! Just because a group our bishops belong to, or are affiliated with, support something, does not mean that the bishops agree with the group stance.

I’m trying to recall what organization our bishops belong to. It’s an American organization. The organization came out with a statement, speaking for all of its membership. I recall that Bishop Lori or Bishop Chaput had to come out and say, “Wait a minute, we did not agree to that.”

It like anything else. I can be a member of a political party, a civic organization like the Lions or just a plain old American. I’ve been in situations where people have said to me, "You Americans believe . . . " or “You Americans voted for . . . .” It happened to me a lot when I was in the foreign missions. I would have to say, “No, we Americans do not beleive the moon is made of cheese. Our government does.”

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[Zoe_Brain]

I’m trying to recall what organization our bishops belong to. It’s an American organization. The organization came out with a statement, speaking for all of its membership. I recall that Bishop Lori or Bishop Chaput had to come out and say, “Wait a minute, we did not agree to that.”

Brother JR - there’s another matter in Uganda too. The hysteria is of such a fever-pitch that to speak out against the bill will lead to charges that they are gay. Charges brought by religious rivals.

Self-confessed former homosexuals yesterday accused a renown Catholic priest, Fr. Anthony Musaala, of being a homosexual.

Paul Kagaba, who says he was a homosexual for eight years, told a press conference in Kampala that Musaala, a gospel music award-winner, regularly holds parties for gays at his residence in Gayaza near Kampala.

He was speaking at the press conference which was held at the anti-gay crusader, Pastor Martin Ssempa’s Redeemed Church at Makerere. In attendance was another self-confessed reformed homosexual, George ‘Georgina’ Oundo, and Pastor Solomon Male, an anti-gay activist.

• New Vision, Uganda : newvision.co.ug/D/8/12/676499 March 2009

THE Catholic Church in Uganda is investigating allegations that some of its priests are involved in homosexuality.

“There have been allegations that some of our spiritual leaders are involved in acts of homosexuality. This is regrettable, but we are investigating and if it is true they will have to be punished at all costs,” warned the Archbishop, Dr. Cyprian Kizito Lwanga.

He added: “The word of God is clear. Homosexuality is a sin. It cannot be allowed to thrive in our society. A man should never have sex with a fellow man!”

“We are trying to establish the truth about allegations of homosexuality in the church. It has to be stopped quickly, if it is true,” Lwanga said.

newvision.co.ug/D/8/12/677410 April 2009

The situation is complicated by the veneration of St Charles Lwanga:

King Mwanga of Uganda launched persecutions of Christians in response to their opposition to his homosexual and corrupt court. St. Charles, the master of his pages, was martyred with fourteen other pages on June 3, 1886; other companions were killed later.

• wf-f.org/StCharlesLwanga.html

And it’s really complicated by the competition to be more-anti-gay-than-thou in order to persuade Anglicans to rejoin the Catholic Faith:

Bishops Ntagali and Kalu say that local church leaders need to reserve the right to interpret the Bible in a local context, because social practices that might be acceptable in a European or American parish may not be acceptable in an African parish.

“The Bible says that a husband must have one wife,” says Bishop Ntagali. “It does not say that a husband must have one man.” Homosexuals, he adds, “are all capable, all eligible of God’s saving grace, but we only disagree that they cannot be church leaders.”

The fact that they are allowed to disagree with Canterbury, he says, is why there will be little demand to convert to Catholicism.

• csmonitor.com/World/Africa/2009/1021/p06s15-woaf.html

 

[JReducation]

We live in a very sad state of affairs. But we must remain very faithful to the Gospel of Life.

1. Human life has a dignity of its own, from conception to birth. Regardless of the sin of the individual, that dignity cannot be violated with unjust persecutions and unreasonable imprisonments.

2 The dignity of human life is protected by the proper establishment and protection of the family whereby one man and one woman form a home where they become one person and if God grants them the grace, they will bring forth new life.

1. Homosexual people are not an evil in God’s eyes. They are as much his sons and daughters as is any person with any other inclination that is contrary to the natural law. Their life is sacred in God’s eyes, as are all of our lives. Their behaviors and choices must be consistent with that sacred dignity that God has given them and which God loves.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[Brendan]

I’m also very confused, because they mention the Episcopalians. The Episcopalians have always been more liberal on gay issues than most other Christians.)

Well, the Episcopalians don’t exist as a Church outside of the United States. Perhaps what they mean is the Anglican Church of Uganda.

Most African Anglicans are evanglicals and have been strongly protesting actions by the Episcopalian church related to the ‘ordination’ of active homosexuals and the ‘blessing’ of homosexual unions.

 

[JReducation]

Well, the Episcopalians don’t exist as a Church outside of the United States. Perhaps what they mean is the Anglican Church of Uganda.

Most African Anglicans are evanglicals and have been strongly protesting actions by the Episcopalian church related to the ‘ordination’ of active homosexuals and the ‘blessing’ of homosexual unions.

That would make more sense. Thanks for the clarification.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[thesheepcat]

Do you have any quotes from Catholic Bishops saying they support this bill? The only thing I found is an older article (a few weeks ago) stating that they haven’t been vocal:
ncronline.org/blogs/all-things-catholic/anti-gay-bill-uganda-challenges-catholics-take-stand

I would be interested in seeing a quote from a Catholic Bishop or two, rather than an article lumping all members of the IRC as supporting the bill.

There’s now (as of late December) a statement from the Archbishop of Kampala on behalf of the Catholic bishops of Uganda, opposing the bill while standing firm against homosexuality.
“The recent tabled Anti-Homosexuality Bill does not pass a test of a Christian caring approach to this issue. The targeting of the sinner, not the sin, is the core flaw of the proposed Bill… As a Catholic Church, we have a mission to reach out to all of the people of God as Christ showed no one is beyond God’s mercy and love.”

 

[rlg94086]

There’s now (as of late December) a statement from the Archbishop of Kampala on behalf of the Catholic bishops of Uganda, opposing the bill while standing firm against homosexuality.
“The recent tabled Anti-Homosexuality Bill does not pass a test of a Christian caring approach to this issue. The targeting of the sinner, not the sin, is the core flaw of the proposed Bill… As a Catholic Church, we have a mission to reach out to all of the people of God as Christ showed no one is beyond God’s mercy and love.”

Thanks!

 

[redrosetea]

I would never trust a UK paper to give an unbiased assessment of the Catholic Church to begin with

 

[JReducation]

I would never trust a UK paper to give an unbiased assessment of the Catholic Church to begin with

Find me a news paper that can be trusted.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[Zoe_Brain]

It seems there was a change of heart between August and December. Appearances can be deceptive though.

I think it more likely that the ramifications, especially regarding the sanctity of the confessional, were not understood at the time of the conference. When they were… the Church was horrified.

That such a swift (for the Church) response came, and from such a high level, indicates that the Archbishop’s reply was always the real policy. It’s certainly the one I would have expected.

The Archbishop’s reply needs to be widely publicised, to correct the misapprehension many - including myself - had about the Ugandan Church.

Zoe

 

[CatholicGerman]

Thank you for posting the link to the Archbishop’s speech. More anti-Catholic bias in the news. We must also remember that the Catholic Church is often the last group to issue a statement because our deliberations take longer.

Find me a news paper that can be trusted.

Well, no one can be trusted, obviously. But one of the reasons that I subscribe to the Economist is that they seem to have a strong sense of fair play. Even though they can’t stand the Catholic Church and don’t bother to hide that fact, they at least consistently state the Catholic Church’s official opinion and doctrine before lampooning us. And they regularly print rebuttal letters from leading Catholics.

Which is more than can be said about pretty much any other mainstream newsprint or magazine.