Church leaders back govt on anti-gay Bill

[redrosetea]

Which makes no sense because the vast majority of HIV positive men and women in Africa are heterosexuals.

It might not make sense to you but when people are looking for a scapegoat any one will do

We are talking about a different culture than ours…and aids did start out in the gay population…some of the people in Africa still practice witchcraft

 

[EmperorNapoleon]

…and aids did start out in the gay population…

No it didn’t.

 

[redrosetea]

Well it is commonly believed that it did…I always thought it did because for a long time it was chiefly identified with the gay population…but that is beside the point

Many people in Africa still practice tribal medicine and they are highly superstitious…if they are looking for someone to blame for aids…it looks to me like they picked the gay population

this was the last paragraph of your article…so it doesn’t say it wasn’t first spread by gays…they don’t know how it started or with who

t is likely that we will never know who the first person was to be infected with HIV, or exactly how it spread from that initial person. Scientists investigating the possibilities often become very attached to their individual ‘pet’ theories and insist that theirs is the only true answer, but the spread of AIDS could quite conceivably have been induced by a combination of many different events. Whether through injections, travel, wars, colonial practices or genetic engineering, the realities of the 20th Century have undoubtedly had a major role to play. Nevertheless, perhaps a more pressing concern for scientists today should not be how the AIDS epidemic originated, but how those it affects can be treated, how the further spread of HIV can be prevented and how the world can change to ensure a similar pandemic never occurs again.

 

[EmperorNapoleon]

Well it is commonly believed that it did…I always thought it did because for a long time it was chiefly identified with the gay population…

Not commonly believed in scientific circles. That is a myth that was created and spread by the Reagan Administration.

 

[redrosetea]

Not commonly believed in scientific circles. That is a myth that was created and spread by the Reagan Administration.

scientific circles don’t really have a definitive answer according to the last paragraph of your article

 

[EmperorNapoleon]

scientific circles don’t really have a definitive answer according to the last paragraph of your article

The most likely and widely accepted theory is the Hunter Theory. The old “blame the gays” propaganda was developed and spread by anti-gay bigots of the same ilk as those trying to murder gays in Uganda.

 

[redrosetea]

I don’t want to point fingers without proof …I am slow to accuse anyone till it can be proven they did this or that

As for calling people bigots because they might not approve of a gay lifestyle…I think you are painting with a very broad brush

 

[rlg94086]

Homosexuality has been a criminal offense punishable by incarceration for up to 14 years in Uganda for decades.

Btw…how many convictions have there been? I found one article, which I would rather not link to because it is gay news site, that says “Ethics and Integrity Minister James Nsaba Buturo told a weekend news conference he does not know of a single conviction.” A law with no convictions is hardly “persecution” and certainly not a “holocaust.” Do you have any evidence to the contrary?

 

[EmperorNapoleon]

Btw…how many convictions have there been? I found one article, which I would rather not link to because it is gay news site, that says “Ethics and Integrity Minister James Nsaba Buturo told a weekend news conference he does not know of a single conviction.” A law with no convictions is hardly “persecution” and certainly not a “holocaust.” Do you have any evidence to the contrary?

I don’t care how many convictions there have been. The discrimination and persecution of homosexuals in Uganda is nothing new and tallying the numbers is irrelevant. For a brief and limited article about the subject you can go here.

As for calling people bigots because they might not approve of a gay lifestyle…I think you are painting with a very broad brush

There’s not approving of a gay lifestyle and then there’s proposing the murder of homosexuals as national policy.

 

[rlg94086]

I don’t care how many convictions there have been. The discrimination and persecution of homosexuals in Uganda is nothing new and tallying the numbers is irrelevant.

Again, no evidence? This is sad and pathetic. Numbers are relevant when you are using terms like “persecution” and “holocaust.” You are cheapening the meaning of those words.

Making a statement like “the discrimination and persecution of homosexuals in Uganda is nothing new” is completely baseless without some evidence to support it.

So, let’s summarize…

You claim the Church has been silent about “persecutions” and “holocausts” going on for “decades” that you have no evidence of, even though you also don’t have any way of knowing whether the Church was silent. WEAK.

 

[redrosetea]

I don’t care how many convictions there have been. The discrimination and persecution of homosexuals in Uganda is nothing new and tallying the numbers is irrelevant. For a brief and limited article about the subject you can go here.

There’s not approving of a gay lifestyle and then there’s proposing the murder of homosexuals as national policy.

I am not speaking of africa now but of other claimes you have made

You are saying other things than this …that gay bigots said aids was spread by gays and implying that all of this was started about gays by people that were bigots

I am not sure who started what…people could have honestly thought gays were the cause of the spread of aid,s or even that aids started in the gay community, without being a bigot…medical research looks at everything and everyone…they make determinations of scientific evidence…sometimes it is right and sometimes it is wrong

It can be an honest mistake and not a bigoted view at all…medicine changes theories many times about many things as more research developments unfold …it doesn’t mean if they get it wrong they are bigots or out to get anyone

 

[EmperorNapoleon]

Again, no evidence?

Aside from the source I posted; you’re free to take a gander at the State Department Human Rights Reports on Uganda in addition to a host of articles and publications regarding Uganda’s treatment of homosexuals.

This is sad and pathetic

You must be thinking of your attempt to defend the indefensible.

 

[CatholicGerman]

The Ugandan government is preparing for a genocide against the gay community and, at best, imprison anyone who doesn’t turn homosexuals over to the State to be murdered. What is there to deliberate? That the Catholic Church in Uganda would even need to debate the morality, or lack thereof, of this is an outrage!

What I meant is that the Catholic Church generally doesn’t “shoot from the hip”. If you corner them with an unfamiliar topic in a press conference or the like, they aren’t likely to answer on it. They consider what they are going to say beforehand. They are deliberate.

 

[rlg94086]

Aside from** the source I posted**; you’re free to take a gander at the State Department Human Rights Reports on Uganda in addition to a host of articles and publications regarding Uganda’s treatment of homosexuals.

My apologies. I didn’t see the link…you must have added it as an edit, since it wasn’t there when I responded to that post. I don’t generally go back and reread posts unless prompted. When I saw this post, I had to review all of your posts to find the source you posted.

I hope you will at least remove your reference to “holocaust.” There is nothing in the report that comes anywhere near that level. There is harassment, though the report didn’t say anything about convictions based on the sodomy laws. It sounds like a similar situation to the sodomy laws that were overturned in Texas - old laws that aren’t enforced.

I agree that the government should end the harassment, but your comments are still overblown. As I read through the various news reports, the harassment is primarily against gay rights activists who are trying to overturn the sodomy laws. Gay people are not being rounded up for being gay. There are plenty of pictures of people protesting in the streets with signs; organized LGBT groups; etc. If it were wholesale persecution, then this would not be the case.

Since you insist on vilifying the Church without evidence of the Church’s wrongdoing, I think we are done with this conversation. We both agree that the government shouldn’t harass/persecute people. And, I hope you join the Ugandan Catholic Church in her condemnation of imprisonment and death penalty for people engaged in sodomy, as it attacks the sinner and not the sin.

 

[KC91]

The Bishops say that they support the Bill if the capital punishment is taken out. As long as there is no capital punishment I don’t see what is so wrong with this law.