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T
Tartini
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As news media media coverage (on any news story, not just those concerning the Church) are becoming more increasingly suspicious in the validity of anything they say. As for the actions of the police, I am not surprised at all. The real reasons are possibly something we may never know about or even something we would imagine. In my opinion, this type of communistic act was planned out way ahead of time, which just more than the word “justice” in view. As the details are so shaded in the stories I am seeing, one may have to wait for better developments that edge more towards the truth and farther away from tabloid sensationalism.
Should the Vatican sue? I have always been of a mind that it is improper for a Christian institution to retaliate by lawsuit, as it seems to go against the teaching of Christ to turn the other cheek. This police act really made more of a public statement than anything–it is a statement that is a disturbing one. The persecutions will be there, it is up to faithful Catholics to make sure that their support is known, The Vatican will handle this in it’s own way, one may rest assured. It only really saddens me that most people will misinterpret the situation to have underlying sinister overtones, a Dan Brown style plot involved and undermine any work the Church is doing to handle the pedophile situation. Pray for all involved.
Should the Vatican sue? I have always been of a mind that it is improper for a Christian institution to retaliate by lawsuit, as it seems to go against the teaching of Christ to turn the other cheek. This police act really made more of a public statement than anything–it is a statement that is a disturbing one. The persecutions will be there, it is up to faithful Catholics to make sure that their support is known, The Vatican will handle this in it’s own way, one may rest assured. It only really saddens me that most people will misinterpret the situation to have underlying sinister overtones, a Dan Brown style plot involved and undermine any work the Church is doing to handle the pedophile situation. Pray for all involved.
S
sidbrown
Guest
Belgium is only doing what any government should do when many of its children are being victimised by sex perverts.BRUSSELS — A Catholic archdiocese could sue the Belgian state over police raids on church property carried out as part of a paedophilia investigation, a lawyer said Saturday, amid Vatican indignation.
More…
T
Tartini
Guest
As the problem of pedophiles in the Church is the principal issue, there is still a proper way to go about handling the situation. The archdioceses was in the process of doing their job and the law made a bold move to seemingly disrupt it. What was the reason for that? I know that people are upset, which is to be expected. Yet, the question really deals with the actions taken by the law, not the circumstances surrounding it. It has been established that the Church is going to do a great deal of house cleaning. The actions of the law are out of line with the protocol that is necessary for the Church and secular law to work together on this. This is not going to be done overnight, but little progress is made when a hindrance is introduced.
The whole pedophile situation has brought more quacks and fortune-seekers out of the woodwork than any other “scandal” I can readily think of that has been placed on the Church from time to time. I am not into “conspiracy theories”, but when the obvious happens, then questions must arise and answers are necessary. Common sense answers most of them, but there will be individuals who want to make up their own reality on the case–this makes the Church’s job all the more difficult.
Raids of this nature send a disturbing, if not at most, sending a confused message, as to who is trying to do what, or even conceal something sinister in the process. To open tombs, which from my further readings of reliable Vatican reports, to look for evidence is saying a great deal about the law and it’s methods of investigation here. Why did this just happen without proper warning? Interestingly enough, television media was on the scene about a half hour before the raid. Could not have any “incriminating” evidence simply been destroyed? It all smacks of some fantastic novel plot that it would be deposited into a tomb. Are people so misguided by the media today to even consider this? Yes, and the media has done more damage than good in the whole affair, to be certain. One sees this kind of method used in seeking out common terrorists and drug dealers. Perhaps the Vatican should sue and make a statement once and for all on their position in the world, not only in the matters of pedophiles, but in the matters that will let others know this position.
One should not forget that if such an act of communistic attitude is not placed in check immediately, others who are not in authority (particularly anti-catholic fanatics) will soon be coming forward and taking matters into their own hands. The results could be devastating, but not necessarily unprecedented. These incidents have happened before through the history of the Church. As there needs to be more information on the whole case available, time will tell the truths here. As for the general message that it is sending, one needs little else to go on when they realize why it occurred.
The whole pedophile situation has brought more quacks and fortune-seekers out of the woodwork than any other “scandal” I can readily think of that has been placed on the Church from time to time. I am not into “conspiracy theories”, but when the obvious happens, then questions must arise and answers are necessary. Common sense answers most of them, but there will be individuals who want to make up their own reality on the case–this makes the Church’s job all the more difficult.
Raids of this nature send a disturbing, if not at most, sending a confused message, as to who is trying to do what, or even conceal something sinister in the process. To open tombs, which from my further readings of reliable Vatican reports, to look for evidence is saying a great deal about the law and it’s methods of investigation here. Why did this just happen without proper warning? Interestingly enough, television media was on the scene about a half hour before the raid. Could not have any “incriminating” evidence simply been destroyed? It all smacks of some fantastic novel plot that it would be deposited into a tomb. Are people so misguided by the media today to even consider this? Yes, and the media has done more damage than good in the whole affair, to be certain. One sees this kind of method used in seeking out common terrorists and drug dealers. Perhaps the Vatican should sue and make a statement once and for all on their position in the world, not only in the matters of pedophiles, but in the matters that will let others know this position.
One should not forget that if such an act of communistic attitude is not placed in check immediately, others who are not in authority (particularly anti-catholic fanatics) will soon be coming forward and taking matters into their own hands. The results could be devastating, but not necessarily unprecedented. These incidents have happened before through the history of the Church. As there needs to be more information on the whole case available, time will tell the truths here. As for the general message that it is sending, one needs little else to go on when they realize why it occurred.
S
sidbrown
Guest
Why did all of this child molesting and sexual perversion happen without warning? It is the duty and the obligation of the state to protect children.Why did this just happen without proper warning? .
E
EmperorNapoleon
Guest
The police conducted the raid because of:The archdioceses was in the process of doing their job and the law made a bold move to seemingly disrupt it. What was the reason for that?
then there’s this little gem:…a formal accusation that the church was hiding information on sexual abuse lodged by the former president of an internal church commission handling such cases.
In other words, you’d better hide those doccuments or else there might be…an accident. Who else would know about those doccuments and care about their contents enough to make a threatening phone call? Hmmmm.she had gone to the authorities after receiving a call from a man who did not identify himself and warned her in French to “watch out” for herself and to secure the documents she held on about 30 cases she had handled during her tenure at the commission, from 2000 to 2008.
T
Tartini
Guest
A NY Times story…None of it surprises, or is some dark mystery to me in the least. The Church, like any other institution has problem employees. The Church is handling it as best She can. The media has field days on things like this, but seemingly never take trouble to point out other institutions and the many perverts who lurk in their shadows. Shadows which, I might add, are a great deal more sinister than any the Church may be imagined to possess. Any other instituton is not worth the trouble, as the Church poses a threat to what some consider “personal freedoms” that denounce all that is moral and is necessary to keep a society civilized. Most are more apt to believe some wild, Dan Brown styled plot today than the actual truth of matters. This is a scary reality.
As most non-Catholics seem to have all the answers when a situation like this comes up, I should leave it to them to solve it. While they are arguing amongst themselves the Church will have already solved the problem. She is used to having to solve worst problems than what to do about a few bad priests. Until then, one should realistically look at the situation in light of common sense, not in hopes of some imagined, sinister plot. People are bored, it is true, but there are way to better fill up the time. If I pose a real question as to why, I can, as an informed Catholic, probably rest assured that it is obvious why these things happen. Certain people fear the Church for what She represents (and not what you think) and see Her as a threat to their wanton, liberal and immoral lifestyles.
The Church is not so much fearful (of the world) as She is feared (by those who follow the world). Today, if one publicly undermines the Church, they feel they gain some respect from the world—that is about it. Some seek to make some money over it, and some are just plain evil. Fear, hate and ignorance make for a formula that only results in creating other problems, particularly in constructive communications. It is a disturbing fact that we live in an age where information is readily available, but most will accept only the prejudices of their own limited learning based on what they read in a news article. There are individuals in the media who would personally destroy the Church Herself, if that were possible. They seek to be the “new religion of the people”. From what I read on any typical news comment section, they may be hooking in more than a few converts. The media is just catalyst for other chain reactions in the enemy’s plan. Modernists and Liberals have caused most of the problems, even more than the pedophiles themselves, combined. Is there a jprison cell waiting for them somewhere? Perhaps, but it does not exist here on earth.
I am not happy with the situations that occurred (few people are), and am not protecting the pedophile by no means here. They have their reward. But one must remember that those sorts of activities go on everywhere, not just the Church. One forgets of other crimes that occur, but are “acceptable” as everyone is doing it, so to speak. It never occurs to most that it could happen to them just for speaking out on any issue. One cannot understand this unless they have experienced it firsthand. I can questionably say that this day will never been seen, but the indications that I pick up from the actions of the police in this matter, tend to make me think seriously on it. One should try to clean up the trash in ones own yard, before complaining about any in those of their neighbors. In the worst case someone else will clean both neighbors’ yards and then call it their own. This is what we should really worry about.
As most non-Catholics seem to have all the answers when a situation like this comes up, I should leave it to them to solve it. While they are arguing amongst themselves the Church will have already solved the problem. She is used to having to solve worst problems than what to do about a few bad priests. Until then, one should realistically look at the situation in light of common sense, not in hopes of some imagined, sinister plot. People are bored, it is true, but there are way to better fill up the time. If I pose a real question as to why, I can, as an informed Catholic, probably rest assured that it is obvious why these things happen. Certain people fear the Church for what She represents (and not what you think) and see Her as a threat to their wanton, liberal and immoral lifestyles.
The Church is not so much fearful (of the world) as She is feared (by those who follow the world). Today, if one publicly undermines the Church, they feel they gain some respect from the world—that is about it. Some seek to make some money over it, and some are just plain evil. Fear, hate and ignorance make for a formula that only results in creating other problems, particularly in constructive communications. It is a disturbing fact that we live in an age where information is readily available, but most will accept only the prejudices of their own limited learning based on what they read in a news article. There are individuals in the media who would personally destroy the Church Herself, if that were possible. They seek to be the “new religion of the people”. From what I read on any typical news comment section, they may be hooking in more than a few converts. The media is just catalyst for other chain reactions in the enemy’s plan. Modernists and Liberals have caused most of the problems, even more than the pedophiles themselves, combined. Is there a jprison cell waiting for them somewhere? Perhaps, but it does not exist here on earth.
I am not happy with the situations that occurred (few people are), and am not protecting the pedophile by no means here. They have their reward. But one must remember that those sorts of activities go on everywhere, not just the Church. One forgets of other crimes that occur, but are “acceptable” as everyone is doing it, so to speak. It never occurs to most that it could happen to them just for speaking out on any issue. One cannot understand this unless they have experienced it firsthand. I can questionably say that this day will never been seen, but the indications that I pick up from the actions of the police in this matter, tend to make me think seriously on it. One should try to clean up the trash in ones own yard, before complaining about any in those of their neighbors. In the worst case someone else will clean both neighbors’ yards and then call it their own. This is what we should really worry about.
T
Tartini
Guest
It did not happen without warning… if you are a Catholic,why are do not at least defend your faith here?..the priests did what they did, and the state did what they did. The question is more about protocol of handling the situation, not who can blame who. We need to progress to the next level to solve the problems of both sides.Why did all of this child molesting and sexual perversion happen without warning? It is the duty and the obligation of the state to protect children.
L
Laurent_LUG
Guest
Criminal investigations , true , hopefully they’ll find the criminals (no matter who)Belgium is only doing what any government should do when many of its children are being victimised by sex perverts.
Salute & Cheers from a NON BELIEVER:
– Laurent LUG (.@…), june 30, 2010
C
CatholicGerman
Guest
I think we should expect to see much more of this as the European economies crumble under the weight of the debt they carry. Catholics are a convenient scapegoat, and the governments will be looking for distractions.
S
sidbrown
Guest
As a Catholic I do not defend sex crimes against children. It has nothing to do with defending the Catholic faith. This implication of yours that I am not defending the Catholic faith is a dirty trick and a dirty implication setup by those who are covering up for these perverted sex crimes against innocent children. And it is thousands of children who have been victimised by these perverts.It did not happen without warning… if you are a Catholic,why are do not at least defend your faith here.
And these crimes absolutely did happen without warning. Where did any priest call and warn the parents of these children that he was going to rape them? Wopuld you kindly give me one example of where the criminal gave this warning to the parents of the child.
E
EmperorNapoleon
Guest
The Church can’t progress while former Archbishops are hoarding relevant doccuments in their private residences and someone (and by the way, there are very few people whom that someone could be) is threatening people and trying to intimidate them into hiding relevant doccuments. You seem to be forgetting that the biggest scandal in all of this wasn’t the sexual abuse itself; it was the fact that there was an international conspiracy permeating almost all levels of the Catholic heirarchy to cover it up and now it appears that there are elements within the Church who are trying to cover their involvement in that up too.It did not happen without warning… if you are a Catholic,why are do not at least defend your faith here?..the priests did what they did, and the state did what they did. The question is more about protocol of handling the situation, not who can blame who. We need to progress to the next level to solve the problems of both sides.
J
Janks
Guest
I almost think the Church should sue if it finds that the Belgian police did not have anything substantial to base their search on. Hopefully they went on some concrete information especially since they pratically desecrated a tomb! I mean, that action seems to be overreaching on any level. That seems like an invasion. But if the belgian police had a very solid lead and good cause for the search, then no, I don’t think the Church should sue. But we need more details from Belgium.
L
Laurent_LUG
Guest
The investigation hasn’t ended yet:
news.google.com/news/story?ncl=dv63i9ZlIadCtwMGLcKLHDYTd0vnM&hl=en&ned=us
google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5giMWS8lr74gsiIxZXNJBBNHzVDxw
They questioned danneels for about 10 hours , One thing is for sure
(general intended) , they don’t want to let go this case
I repeat: Not ALL child abusers are priest or bishop (true) , but
i hope they gonna get the real criminals , whoever they may be !!!
I questioning , what’s does make child abuse so great for these creeps ???
The only thing i can think about is , it’s disgusting & pervertible sick !!!
Salute & Cheers from a NON BELIEVER:
– Laurent LUG (.@…), juli 7, 2010
news.google.com/news/story?ncl=dv63i9ZlIadCtwMGLcKLHDYTd0vnM&hl=en&ned=us
google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5giMWS8lr74gsiIxZXNJBBNHzVDxw
They questioned danneels for about 10 hours , One thing is for sure
(general intended) , they don’t want to let go this case
I repeat: Not ALL child abusers are priest or bishop (true) , but
i hope they gonna get the real criminals , whoever they may be !!!
I questioning , what’s does make child abuse so great for these creeps ???
The only thing i can think about is , it’s disgusting & pervertible sick !!!
Salute & Cheers from a NON BELIEVER:
– Laurent LUG (.@…), juli 7, 2010
S
sidbrown
Guest
Lifesite news is reporting that the Catholic Church in Belgium was teaching small children from a pornographic catechism and that the bishops ignored the parents complaint on this.I think we should expect to see much more of this as the European economies crumble under the weight of the debt they carry. Catholics are a convenient scapegoat, and the governments will be looking for distractions.
lifesitenews.com/
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=473550
Could this have explained why the police acted as they did?
L
Linda_Marie
Guest
There have been two threads about this alleged pornographic ‘catechism’. They were both locked because there has only been one source for the story and it hasn’t been confirmed. Someone posted from Belgium citing that they had heard nothing of this story on their news and given its anti-Catholic bias, it would not have been ignored nor swept under the carpet. The poster said that their catechism, which they have been using for the past 13 years, does not contain any of the alleged text or pictures.
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