Church Militant and its latest attacks

[gracepoole]

To be fair, the Church of LDS handles things as suggested by the OP. Anyone using the church’s name — or even the word Mormon — improperly gets sued by the church. The Catholic Church, however, hasn’t trademarked the name and does not pursue the same course of action when its name is abused.

 

[FiveLinden]

You seem to be pushing some model whereby the Church is responsible for everything any Catholic might do related to Catholicism or any thought a baptized person might express on the Catholic Church.

I think I’m raising the issue of how the Church should respond to a faction within it. I’m not saying ‘take responsibility’. I’m asking about the response and the options the Church has. I understand that ignoring CM because ‘it’s nothing to do with us’ is an option. It just doesn’t seem to be a very good one.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Again, as has been explained, the Church has dozens of “factions” within it. Pushing it to respond to this one just begs the question of what it should do about the factions that want women priests or support Fr. Martin. It’s likely you see those as okay and inoffensive, but they can be every bit as offensive as Church Militant, and even if not openly rude they may be very damaging to the Church.

We seem to be going in circles here because you seem to think that Church Militant is so bad that “something must be done” by the Church and you’re going to keep pushing for some reason why you’re correct on that. So, I will step off now. Have a nice day.

 

[pnewton]

StudentMI just wrote to me privately and gave me extremely convincing testimony about CM being unfair. I stand corrected.

Well done on his part. Somethings do not need to be public.

But then Voris and his gang get to pretend they are martyrs. Really a ‘no win’ situation for the Church,

That is the attraction of this sort of “remnant” mentality. The more abrasive you are, the more rejection you get, the more special you feel, the bolder you get, the more abrasive you are…

The “vortex” indeed.

 

[pnewton]

the same thing as CM, but CM is not part of the Body of Christ? How so?

I think you are mixing terms. “The Body of Christ” is strictly people, not any organization. The Church can be multiple things, and may include buildings, ecclesial organization, ledger books, and all other stuff depending on how it is defined.

To answer this question, only a clear definition of terms would help. Most of us are thinking in one way, as that is what we here at CAF have done. It seems obvious to us the usage of these words, but they do have a more specific meaning we occasionally need to clarify.

 

[FiveLinden]

Again, as has been explained, the Church has dozens of “factions” within it. Pushing it to respond to this one just begs the question of what it should do about the factions that want women priests or support Fr. Martin. It’s likely you see those as okay and inoffensive, but they can be every bit as offensive as Church Militant, and even if not openly rude they may be very damaging to the Church

I know you have said you are not going to continue to discuss this but…I have not seen anything from the factions you mention that comes anywhere close to the Church Militant approach. The difference is that CM attacks individuals with claims and sneers about their alleged sexuality and, recently, with crude references to the race of an Archbishop. The is qualitatively different to the things said b the other factions which as far as I know is not typically aimed personally at individuals. Should there be such factions advocating greater alignment of the Church with enlightenment and liberal values I would ask exactly the same question: surely there must be actions the Church can take, and, if it can take such actions, should it do so?

 

[FiveLinden]

“The Body of Christ” is strictly people, not any organization.

That is not how I would read the Catechism. Why am I wrong?

“752 In Christian usage, the word “church” designates the liturgical assembly, but also the local community or the whole universal community of believers.These three meanings are inseparable”

 

[TMC]

That is the attraction of this sort of “remnant” mentality. The more abrasive you are, the more rejection you get, the more special you feel, the bolder you get, the more abrasive you are…

This is a good diagnosis of this phenomena.

 

[Feanor2]

Tis_Bearself:

The Church has a habit of doing this in many situations. Sometimes it works out and sometimes it goes horribly wrong.

I do wonder, though, if a lot of the “problem” might not go away if the next Pope is more conservative like Pope Benedict was.

I think Voris would like a Pope Donald Trump.

I think Voris IS Pope Donald Trump.

 

[pnewton]

The modifier “these” limits the statement to the three meanings given. If you are trying to shoe horn the business of Church Militant into that formula, it is not a part of any of those definitions. It is where these people work, that is all. Catholics who work at Target do not make Target part of the Church.

There is nothing in 752 that says those three definitions are exclusive an no other definition exists. There is no way to make an organization a part of a group of people without a different definition.