Church must be open to change, say priests [CNAU]

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Yes, open to change…

Maybe a change towards more orthodox priests and parishioners? 🙂
 
Rolltide said:
I would simply refer to this very interesting article:

New York Times
Can Liberal Christianity be Saved?
nytimes.com/2012/07/15/opinion/sunday/douthat-can-liberal-christianity-be-saved.html?_r=1
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Bingo.

Persons who are serious about their faith tend to look for things which are timeless and unchanging. That does not mean that they don’t make conscious efforts to present themselves in a fashion appropriate with the age they are in, but they certainly do not alter fundamental teachings as the wind blows.

We are seeing the fruits of changing teachings to match culture in the Anglican Church. I want no part of that debacle.
 
It seems to me that there is a minority of people who want “religion” to be easy, to reflect their views, and to offer comfort.

The majority, however, see through that and understand that it is supposed to be hard. Hard in the sense that truly putting other people before yourself, truly submitting to a belief system that is handed down to you, not one that you pick and chose, is not easy and requires submission to something outside of yourself. You can still gain comfort, but it is because you have found the Truth.
 
PaulinVA said:
It seems to me that there is a minority of people who want “religion” to be easy, to reflect their views, and to offer comfort.

The majority, however, see through that and understand that it is supposed to be hard. Hard in the sense that truly putting other people before yourself, truly submitting to a belief system that is handed down to you, not one that you pick and chose, is not easy and requires submission to something outside of yourself. You can still gain comfort, but it is because you have found the Truth.
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“The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and left untried”. G.K. Chesterton
 
Yes, a change from liberalism coming into the Church and a more traditional, orthodox and conservative practice in the United States and throughout the World. :)🙂
 
Does anyone know how much influence this organization has? Their website claims that half of Australia’s priests are members. Yet, there is this snippet from a February 2012 news article which suggests they are more of a fringe organization.
“We are the questioning priests who are not afraid to challenge,” said council chairman Father Eugene McKinnon, now of Donald but formerly of south-west Victoria.
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“Our organisation offers support to priests who ask big questions.
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“But we would certainly not say we are a breakaway group. The Catholic church needs both conservatives and the challengers.” Conventional Catholic cages will be rattled by guest speakers including outspoken UK priest and author Father Timothy Radcliffe and Sydney journalist and lecturer Chris McGillion.
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standard.net.au/news/local/news/general/priest-convention-hits-warrnambool-to-ask-the-big-questions/2447364.aspx
 
PaxetBonum3 said:
Yes, a change from liberalism coming into the Church and a more traditional, orthodox and conservative practice in the United States and throughout the World. :)🙂
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After seeing this and that nun on NPR today, I’m so irritated and sad for the faithful who remain, well, faithful.

I’ve tried so hard for years to get my whole family converted… not because I want to marry a Catholic man, not because I just want my kids in Catholic school, and not to please a family member who wanted me to convert. I’m trying to convert because it is the faith of my heart. I kneel during the Eucharist while others go up, as I have for nearly 7 years now.

To see religious people disrespect the Church this way breaks my heart and angers me more than I can properly articulate. Don’t they understand they are arming the enemies of the Church with their words and demoralizing their brothers and sisters?

Disgusting. :mad:
 
knotanes said:
After seeing this and that nun on NPR today, I’m so irritated and sad for the faithful who remain, well, faithful.

I’ve tried so hard for years to get my whole family converted… not because I want to marry a Catholic man, not because I just want my kids in Catholic school, and not to please a family member who wanted me to convert. I’m trying to convert because it is the faith of my heart. I kneel during the Eucharist while others go up, as I have for nearly 7 years now.

To see religious people disrespect the Church this way breaks my heart and angers me more than I can properly articulate. Don’t they understand they are arming the enemies of the Church with their words and demoralizing their brothers and sisters?

Disgusting. :mad:
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https://encrypted-tbn3.google.com/i...fIDuhLFyCfcm-V6Sd2yAh95W7zkK5RR_T3P_QKHDET44w

Its easy to get frustrated at times by such things, it happens to me also. The Church will always be here, at least until our Blessed Lord comes back. The reason you are seeing some of this stuff is because the aging hipsters know that they are losing, and final desperate attempts are what you do when you know you are losing. The vast majority of young priests and religious are faithful and orthodox. So are the majority of younger laity that are active in the Church.

I hope that your process through RCIA is a wonderful one!

Peace,
 
jwinch2 said:
https://encrypted-tbn3.google.com/i...fIDuhLFyCfcm-V6Sd2yAh95W7zkK5RR_T3P_QKHDET44w

Its easy to get frustrated at times by such things, it happens to me also. The Church will always be here, at least until our Blessed Lord comes back. The reason you are seeing some of this stuff is because the aging hipsters know that they are losing, and final desperate attempts are what you do when you know you are losing. The vast majority of young priests and religious are faithful and orthodox. So are the majority of younger laity that are active in the Church.

I hope that your process through RCIA is a wonderful one!

Peace,
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It’s been a long process, but that just makes us more appreciative of it in the long run. In that way, I’m thankful we didn’t just convert in a standard amount of time with no bumps along the way. The bumps have been worth it. 🙂

I think you are right about the aging hipsters. My own father, the other day, made a remark about his generation and the hippies. He said, give or take, that hipsters and “liberals” and wrecked the world.

It’s my hope the younger generations will be more respectful. Undoubtedly they will, because they’ve had to live with the aftermath of bad decision-making. 😦

I wouldn’t be sorry to see these “questioning” folks find the door. It’s fine to have internal struggles, doubts, etc. everyone wrestles with these things on some level, but this is pure, open defiance.

Funny you say be not afraid, this was the hymn sung at mass on Sunday. I started crying when I heard it, because it really was something I needed to hear. “Be not afraid, I go before you always…” It makes the stepping a little easier, knowing that.

And it’s really not easy, because most of our family and friends don’t understand or appreciate Catholicism. I also participate in art festivals through street painting, and so many are atheists that constantly mock faith. Not one to stay silent, I often speak up to jeers or annoyed silence.

Again, to hear religious do this is just terrible.

But God will be there at the end of it all. God will outlast all of this garbage and we have history to remind us right along with the Bible.

These people who say the Church needs to “evolve” and “get with the times”–really? How have people changed and why do people deserve to be catered to? Isn’t the goal of faith to transform the sinner, and not the sinner transforming faith??? 🤷

We will survive this, but I fear very bad times ahead. The amount of irrational hatred directed at Catholics is disturbing. 😦
 
knotanes said:
It’s been a long process, but that just makes us more appreciative of it in the long run. In that way, I’m thankful we didn’t just convert in a standard amount of time with no bumps along the way. The bumps have been worth it. 🙂

I think you are right about the aging hipsters. My own father, the other day, made a remark about his generation and the hippies. He said, give or take, that hipsters and “liberals” and wrecked the world.

It’s my hope the younger generations will be more respectful. Undoubtedly they will, because they’ve had to live with the aftermath of bad decision-making. 😦

I wouldn’t be sorry to see these “questioning” folks find the door. It’s fine to have internal struggles, doubts, etc. everyone wrestles with these things on some level, but this is pure, open defiance.

Funny you say be not afraid, this was the hymn sung at mass on Sunday. I started crying when I heard it, because it really was something I needed to hear. “Be not afraid, I go before you always…” It makes the stepping a little easier, knowing that.

And it’s really not easy, because most of our family and friends don’t understand or appreciate Catholicism. I also participate in art festivals through street painting, and so many are atheists that constantly mock faith. Not one to stay silent, I often speak up to jeers or annoyed silence.

Again, to hear religious do this is just terrible.

But God will be there at the end of it all. God will outlast all of this garbage and we have history to remind us right along with the Bible.

These people who say the Church needs to “evolve” and “get with the times”–really? How have people changed and why do people deserve to be catered to? Isn’t the goal of faith to transform the sinner, and not the sinner transforming faith??? 🤷

We will survive this, but I fear very bad times ahead. The amount of irrational hatred directed at Catholics is disturbing. 😦
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Without obedience to objective truth people are lost. You can’t even speak about the concept of absolute truth without being called inflexible and imposing.
 
jwinch2 said:
Bingo.

Persons who are serious about their faith tend to look for things which are timeless and unchanging. That does not mean that they don’t make conscious efforts to present themselves in a fashion appropriate with the age they are in, but they certainly do not alter fundamental teachings as the wind blows.

We are seeing the fruits of changing teachings to match culture in the Anglican Church. I want no part of that debacle.
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Your post was in response to a link about liberal Christianity. To be fair and respectful to brothers and sisters in more liberal traditions, many are very serious about their faith. And many of these traditions are recognized by the Catholic Church as Christian. They worship God every Sunday at their church services. They operate, volunteer and give to outreach programs for the poor, the homeless, the hungry. It is not necessarily as you believe about them “as the wind blows”. But instead they may believe as time goes on and they grow in their faith, they reach further understanding of matters of faith. The United Church of Christ for instance has long had a message of “God is still speaking.” God bless you along your faith journey and peace.
 
CMatt25 said:
Your post was in response to a link about liberal Christianity. .
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Yes it was. And that was in the context of people wishing to change the Catholic Church into something she is not. If you read the article vis-a-vie liberal Christianity, the thrust of the article is those which have left traditional teachings behind in an effort to modernize.

Some in those traditions are serious about their Faith, that is true. However, as noted, many or leaving in droves because those groups have left their traditions behind. I believe that many want a feel good church rather than a Church which tells them the truth of the Gospel.

As for the rest, they can believe that they are doing what is right all they want or that they don’t change when the wind blows. The evidence however does not back that claim up.

The United Church of Christ is correct that God is still speaking. However, He is speaking through the guidance of the Holy Spirit given to Christ’s Church on Earth. His will is manifested by the protection provided through the teachings of the Pope and the Magesterium, by the power of the Holy Spirit. The question is not whether or not God is speaking. The question is whether or not people are listening.

Peace,
 
jwinch2 said:
Yes it was. And that was in the context of people wishing to change the Catholic Church into something she is not. If you read the article vis-a-vie liberal Christianity, the thrust of the article is those which have left traditional teachings behind in an effort to modernize.

Some in those traditions are serious about their Faith, that is true. However, as noted, many or leaving in droves because those groups have left their traditions behind. I believe that many want a feel good church rather than a Church which tells them the truth of the Gospel.

As for the rest, they can believe that they are doing what is right all they want or that they don’t change when the wind blows. The evidence however does not back that claim up.

The United Church of Christ is correct that God is still speaking. However, He is speaking through the guidance of the Holy Spirit given to Christ’s Church on Earth. His will is manifested by the protection provided through the teachings of the Pope and the Magesterium, by the power of the Holy Spirit. The question is not whether or not God is speaking. The question is whether or not people are listening.

Peace,
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Correct that is what you believe and where you place your faith as you defend your church’s faith, Her interpretation of Scripture, of history, Her interpretation of the early fathers, and so forth. I think it’s great you have your faith. I encourage you to always have faith, hope, and charity. Peace to you as well and again God bless!
 
CMatt25 said:
Your post was in response to a link about liberal Christianity. To be fair and respectful to brothers and sisters in more liberal traditions, many are very serious about their faith. And many of these traditions are recognized by the Catholic Church as Christian. They worship God every Sunday at their church services. They operate, volunteer and give to outreach programs for the poor, the homeless, the hungry. It is not necessarily as you believe about them “as the wind blows”. But instead they may believe as time goes on and they grow in their faith, they reach further understanding of matters of faith. The United Church of Christ for instance has long had a message of “God is still speaking.” God bless you along your faith journey and peace.
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True faith involves submission of intellect and will to God’s revelation, not what one perceives to be truth in one’s own mind. Do you not believe that God is independent of your understanding and personal opinions or do you believe HE and the truth that He is, should be reduced to the level of your own mind? In our pluralistic society, (and heaven forbid that we would be thought to be intolerant :rolleyes: ) we regretfully believe that everyone has the right to create their own brand of theology for themselves. Which is why the Catholic Church has condemned modernism and moral relativism. God might still be speaking, but if the message is not understood by all in the same manner, how do you know who holds the truth of salvation?
 
clem456 said:
Without obedience to objective truth people are lost. You can’t even speak about the concept of absolute truth without being called inflexible and imposing.
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So true.

Every truth must be subjective in the current popular mindset. If your mind isn’t opened to the point your brain is falling out, the majority of people aren’t happy. “Do what you want, the only truth is what makes you happy.” This is the worst kind of solipsism. It is destroying society. Mothers “do their own thing” and fathers “do their own thing” and teachers…on down the line. Then everyone has the nerve to turn around and say, “Kids these days!” As if they didn’t have a hand in burdening these kids, these days. The kids would probably have more respect for adults if we acted like adults more often. :rolleyes:

Nothing is to vile to be uttered in the public square. And if you object, well, you’re a prude, or one of those antiquated, silly, buffoonish religious types.

Not every question is a question that merits asking or answering. Saying so doesn’t make a person an “idiot” or an unthinking zombie. Saying so means the person has some boundaries they won’t cross–principles they won’t violate.

I respect that.

The Church holding firm also makes me even more respectful. The religious that aren’t, are a disgrace. How are the laity supposed to hold strong when they act this way? It’s hard to be mocked by people for your beliefs. It builds morale to know the Church is filled with people who understand and suffer with you.

And if the people interested in loosening up the moral code of the RCC win, you know they’ll have a good laugh and run off to the next thing.

The people demanding change in the RCC are like a suitor only interested in conquest. The Church needs to be like the parent standing on the front porch with a shotgun telling them to move along and leave their daughters alone.
 
DaddyGirl said:
This priest isn’t exactly suggesting the Catholic church perform same sex marriages or anything.
The article doesn’t say what he means by “change”, does it?
(I couldn’t find any details, if so).
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The article is slim on details, and I wouldn’t get too excited. The National Council of Priests does not constitute the Magisterium.

And no, there will never be women priests (within the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, that is) nor same sex unions.
 
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