Church Needs Competition

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Franciscum

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I think one of the reasons why there is so much rot, corruption and apathy in the Church (at least in the USA) is a simple lack of competition.

With few exceptions, (arch)bishops have geographic monopolies. The Church should look at creating positive internal competition.

The analogy I would use is automobiles. While certainly not a perfect analogy, is was competition from firms like Toyota and Honda that made firms like GM and Ford get in grear so to speak.

Perhaps somewhat like the military archdiocese in the USA or Opus Dei, handful of “regional archbishops” could be created. Maybe a total of 5 – one for every ten states.

Laypeople would petition for their parish (for which they would be responsible for creating) to be “adopted” by the regional archbishops, and they would have to go out and recruit priests – perhaps even at the expense in some cases of existing dioceses.

In time, a seminary could even be created to support this effort.

It’s possible that this could possibly make things worse, but it certainly has the potential of making things substantailly better.
 
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Franciscum:
I think one of the reasons why there is so much rot, corruption and apathy in the Church (at least in the USA) is a simple lack of competition.

With few exceptions, (arch)bishops have geographic monopolies. The Church should look at creating positive internal competition.

The analogy I would use is automobiles. While certainly not a perfect analogy, is was competition from firms like Toyota and Honda that made firms like GM and Ford get in grear so to speak.

Perhaps somewhat like the military archdiocese in the USA or Opus Dei, handful of “regional archbishops” could be created. Maybe a total of 5 – one for every ten states.

Laypeople would petition for their parish (for which they would be responsible for creating) to be “adopted” by the regional archbishops, and they would have to go out and recruit priests – perhaps even at the expense in some cases of existing dioceses.

In time, a seminary could even be created to support this effort.

It’s possible that this could possibly make things worse, but it certainly has the potential of making things substantailly better.
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I would personally not reinvent the wheel, I am called by Christ to Serve His Church and I do so without Question. (Please dont go to extremes, if the Bishop went bananas and said “if you dont wear a pink speedo to church, your going to hell!” :whacky: , of course i would question that).

As far as competition goes that is a drive that we should have for outselves, for ourself is the only person we can really change…I get a stronger drive each day to bring people to Christ and that is the competion that might be lacking…

Hope this point of view helps, God Bless you!
 
there is only one Church, and unfortunately we already have competition within it for the hearts and minds of the faithful, between faithful bishops and priests, and those whose career is built on dissent and divisiveness. What we need is not competition, it is unity, as Jesus called for in has last words to his disciples.
 
The lack of competition hurts the Church – at least in the USA. Here locally, a driven group of individuals paid for the creation of a Ruthenian Catholic parish (including land and buildings) as an alternative to the local diocese.

This competition should be broadened to include non-geographic bishops much like the military archdiocese, and I believe to some degree, Opus Dei, to drive reform within the Church.

Sadly, the ecclesial groups are already doing this…
 
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Franciscum:
I think one of the reasons why there is so much rot, corruption and apathy in the Church (at least in the USA) is a simple lack of competition.

With few exceptions, (arch)bishops have geographic monopolies. The Church should look at creating positive internal competition.

The analogy I would use is automobiles. While certainly not a perfect analogy, is was competition from firms like Toyota and Honda that made firms like GM and Ford get in grear so to speak.

Perhaps somewhat like the military archdiocese in the USA or Opus Dei, handful of “regional archbishops” could be created. Maybe a total of 5 – one for every ten states.

Laypeople would petition for their parish (for which they would be responsible for creating) to be “adopted” by the regional archbishops, and they would have to go out and recruit priests – perhaps even at the expense in some cases of existing dioceses.

In time, a seminary could even be created to support this effort.

It’s possible that this could possibly make things worse, but it certainly has the potential of making things substantailly better.
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That is pure anarchy!!! Unprecedented in Church History!!
 
Competition? How about granting more 1962 Indults? Then give each diocese a normative bishop and a traditional bishop and two battle it out WWE style in a steel cage match at a local arena for the undisputed title of bishop of the diocese? The diocese could make a lot of $$$ on ticket sales and perhaps pay per view somewhere down the line?

Ok, ok. The first option is more realistic. I was kidding about the second part. Or am I? Ok, I am. 😃
 
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EddieArent:
Competition? How about granting more 1962 Indults? Then give each diocese a normative bishop and a traditional bishop and two battle it out WWE style in a steel cage match at a local arena for the undisputed title of bishop of the diocese? The diocese could make a lot of $$$ on ticket sales and perhaps pay per view somewhere down the line?

Ok, ok. The first option is more realistic. I was kidding about the second part. Or am I? Ok, I am. 😃
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You outline the seperatist, bunker-mentality feelings of many “traditonalists” and it’s sad to see.

In any event the region covered by the “traditional bishop” would have to be huge, or they would have to cut costs by meeting in Greyhound Bus terminals, etc.
 
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EddieArent:
Competition? How about granting more 1962 Indults? Then give each diocese a normative bishop and a traditional bishop and two battle it out WWE style in a steel cage match at a local arena for the undisputed title of bishop of the diocese? The diocese could make a lot of $$$ on ticket sales and perhaps pay per view somewhere down the line?

Ok, ok. The first option is more realistic. I was kidding about the second part. Or am I? Ok, I am. 😃
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You outline the seperatist, bunker-mentality feelings of many “traditonalists” and it’s sad to see.

In any event the region covered by the “traditional bishop” would have to be huge, or they would have to cut costs by meeting in Greyhound Bus terminals, etc.

It would be interesting to see if a “Tridentine Catholic Church” could actually sustain itself if Rome gave the approval. My guess is that it couldn’t, except on a tiny scale…
 
The night before He died, Christ prayed for the unity of His Church, not adversarial competition. In 1 Corinithians, Paul admonsihed the people for the divisions in the Church.

The human aspects of our Church may be flawed, but I believe Christ’s promise that the gates of hell will not prevail against her.
 
Franciscum, instead of belittling everyone you disagree with and copying over nearly the same message from topic to topic, why don’t you step back and see a joke when something is overexagerated like in my first post? The notion of Rome appointing two bishops to a diocese and them battling it out is called a “joke.”

In all seriousnes, if the poster wants “competition” then the best bet is to have a diverse liturgy in the diocese be it from the Eastern Catholic Liturgies to the Traditional and Normative Latin Liturgy.
 
Elizabeth B.:
The night before He died, Christ prayed for the unity of His Church, not adversarial competition. In 1 Corinithians, Paul admonsihed the people for the divisions in the Church.

The human aspects of our Church may be flawed, but I believe Christ’s promise that the gates of hell will not prevail against her.
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Indeed. However, he never guaranteed that the Church would exist in say the USA for instance…
 
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EddieArent:
Franciscum, instead of belittling everyone you disagree with and copying over nearly the same message from topic to topic, why don’t you step back and see a joke when something is overexagerated like in my first post? The notion of Rome appointing two bishops to a diocese and them battling it out is called a “joke.”

In all seriousnes, if the poster wants “competition” then the best bet is to have a diverse liturgy in the diocese be it from the Eastern Catholic Liturgies to the Traditional and Normative Latin Liturgy.
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You’re showing confusion.

Latin and Eastern Catholic bishops do coexist within the same geography. In some cases, they most certainly do compete (at least to some degree) for parishioners. For some disgruntled Latin Rite Catholics, attending an Eastern Catholic church is a viable option.

Because “traditionalism” is not a seperate rite or church (it falls under the Latin Rite), this is not possible – except under extraordinary situations like the military where a seperate bishop has responsibility for the Church on military installations, situated within an (arch)dioces under the control of another bishop.
 
There was no competition in the early church so I don’t think there should be any now.
 
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jimmy:
There was no competition in the early church so I don’t think there should be any now.
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Nor were they any indults for Masses in Latin, nor were their formal dioceses, etc.

There was however a great deal of competition from secular and heretical forces… Much like today.
 
Do most here feel that this is enough interest in the TLM to have it bursting at the seams in every parish? Our TLM has been in existence for over 10 years and it’s still not bursting at the seams. Not only that, many attendees drive in from other diocese to go to it. If attendence were limited to the locals, I think the amount would drop by at least half. While I think it should be allowed to parishes that show an interest, I don’t think it should be forced on parishes where there is no interest. Do others really think it should? Just curious…
 
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Franciscum:
Indeed. However, he never guaranteed that the Church would exist in say the USA for instance…
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I see your point, but I don’t think that I would say that the Church in the USA is not part of the church. Just because they have some bad aples, I would not say they are not true. There are many good bishops and priests in the US also.
 
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EddieArent:
Franciscum, instead of belittling everyone you disagree with and copying over nearly the same message from topic to topic, why don’t you step back and see a joke when something is overexagerated like in my first post? The notion of Rome appointing two bishops to a diocese and them battling it out is called a “joke.”

In all seriousnes, if the poster wants “competition” then the best bet is to have a diverse liturgy in the diocese be it from the Eastern Catholic Liturgies to the Traditional and Normative Latin Liturgy.
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Only you are suggesting this.
 
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Franciscum:
Nor were they any indults for Masses in Latin, nor were their formal dioceses, etc.

There was however a great deal of competition from secular and heretical forces… Much like today.
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True, but I don’t think there should be competition within Christianity. I think that Christianity should be working as one body and working together.
 
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katolik:
That is pure anarchy!!! Unprecedented in Church History!!
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I don’t really know how it would be anarchy and I actually don’t think it is unprecedented although I don’t know if it’s been done quite in the way Franciscum has suggested. About 5 or 6 years ago an orthodox priest friend of ours suggested we petition for a new diocese to be set up - not that he thought it would get approved but he was telling us about precedence for this.
 
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