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AJV
Guest
Dear bones VI,
I would like to comment on your post if I may. I do believe in factthat the preacher is indeed right. For one thing the increase in Catholics in Asia and Africa is due to the high birth rate and also persecution, which has a way of strengthening ones faith. One of the things that I have noticed about fellow Catholics (at least when compared with Protestants) is the lack of missionary zeal. No, I am not categorising all Catholics but the majority of Catholics are not as enthusiastic as Protestants in evangelising and getting people to know more about our wonderful faith. Adherents in S. America and Mexico, and other Catholic areas are slowly falling away to other sects-Pentecotalism for example. And why is that-its because they have not been taught properly by some of their priests who are mostly concerned with social issues or just fulfilling a ‘quota’ of masses and parish responsibilities rather than proclaiming the fundamental truth of our faith. And what the preacher said is true- instead of trying to keep the message simple, too much is often given and the impression is of something too elaborate and unkeepable-which is why so many non-Christians are attracted to the simple Evangelical message.
R
rwoehmke
Guest
The preacher has a point. The Catholic Church does make many converts, however, not a few of them already have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ as their personal savior, whereas not a few Catholics do not. We have emphasized the communal aspects of our Faith since Vatican II and perhaps earlier. It is important to belong to the group and to know and follow the truths and the rules, but evangelicals who emphasize the personal relationship aspect win a significant number of cradle Catholics to their form of faith because people need and are hungry for that kind of connection to Our Lord. We would be much more effective at evangelizing our own people (Popes since PaulVI have called for a re-evangelization of our members.) if we could strike more of a balance between head knowledge/community and one on one personal knowledge of and relationship with Jesus our shephard.
N
Nohome
Guest
I’ve got news for you. The growth of the Church in Africa has much more to do with providing needed basic services (hospital, education, food) than winning converts. Many of these people still hold fast to their ancient religions and superstitions but say they are Catholic to obtain their basic needs.
I commend the Church for meeting the physical needs of these people, but spiritually they are not Catholic or at least nothing any of us would call Catholic. Of course, there are exceptions, but for most the Church simply fills in where their own society has failed them.
Nohome
O
oat_soda
Guest
i agree that people can use the growth of the church in third world countries to unreasonably support a growing church. i think B16 recently commented that the many vocations in these countries has more to do with people escaping poverty then a spring time of christianity. just like in the west, you will always have the wheat and the chaff.
T
TPJCatholic
Guest
The notion that a person has to have a “personal realtionship” with Christ is a false Protestant idea that is bedded in the “once saved, always saved” false mantras of modern evangelical Churches. There is nothing more “personal” then receiving the Lord’s Body, Blood, Soul and Dvinity into one’s own body. There is nothing more personal then having the Lord personally forgive our sins, etc…
S
Scott_Waddell
Guest
Right on. The theology is not Sola Scriptura as they say, but rather Sola personal conscience (whatever the Latin for that would be.) So there is a personal relationship with conscience that gets named Jesus, and Scripture is merely a collection pithy Life’s Little Instruction Book snippets from which proof-texts can be drawn to justify whatever fad or notion comes down the pipe.
Scott
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Catherine_S
Guest
This is why the Year of the Eucharist was so important! Once saved always saved makes one feel good but it is not truth and it waters down christianity! Faith is about security in unsecurity and anything less is milk and honey. It lacks repentance, picking up one’s cross to follow Christ and the narrow road that few find is never to be mentioned!Shalom,
Catherine
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Trick
Guest
I think this priest is so right, at least that is my experience in the U.S.
The Church as well as each individual Catholic could be doing a better job of living and sharing the faith with others.
For I feel if we truly did we would have to be building more churches just to accomodate all those wanting to go to Mass.
We also would need to build more seminaries to accomadate all the new seminarians.
We (me included) as Catholics are to a large extent are hiding and not sharing our love of Christ and His Church.
In general I think what I have said is true,however, I know there are many individual examples of priests and laity doing a wonderful job of evangelizing.
Trick
The Church as well as each individual Catholic could be doing a better job of living and sharing the faith with others.
For I feel if we truly did we would have to be building more churches just to accomodate all those wanting to go to Mass.
We also would need to build more seminaries to accomadate all the new seminarians.
We (me included) as Catholics are to a large extent are hiding and not sharing our love of Christ and His Church.
In general I think what I have said is true,however, I know there are many individual examples of priests and laity doing a wonderful job of evangelizing.
Trick
M
m134e5
Guest
It is not a false idea- the saints had personal relationships with Christ. “Personal relationship” means you don’t do things “because the Church says so”- you do them because you love God and want to grow in love for Him.
That’s great- if you know it- some people don’t know it, and need something else to help them get to where they do know it. The Holy Spirit touches people and gives them a zeal for their faith- but they have to be open to that. It’s hard to be open to that when you go to Mass “because you have to”.
C
Catholic29
Guest
I for one have to agree with this preacher. It is well documented that Catholics in western countries have by and large lost their missionary zeal and even a rudementary understanding of their faith. Albeit misconceptions about Catholicsm abound anywhere in the world you go.
The decades following Vatican II in particular have showed much confusion in the Church about what she teaches, and how she is to practice her faith.
Catholic29
The decades following Vatican II in particular have showed much confusion in the Church about what she teaches, and how she is to practice her faith.
Catholic29
S
st.jerome
Guest
I agree with the priest. One cannot base one’s faith on doctrine but on the Good News. As important as doctrine is–just as law is important in society–it is the fundamental freedom in Christ that must be transmitted. Redemption and Sanctification must be a liveable reality.
C
CatQuilt
Guest
Fishers of Men - the video:
grassrootsfilms.com/clip/trailer_fishersofmen_medium.html
This is a film created to encourage vocations. It was made at the request of the USCCB (who’d thunk?!) by an organization called Grassroots Films. They are in Brooklyn, NY and have done work for Fr. Groeschel.
You need Quicktime to view it but it is fabulous. This is just the trailer but the story involves a priest stuck in a traffic jam because of a car accident. He gets involved to give Last Rites.
grassrootsfilms.com/clip/trailer_fishersofmen_medium.html
This is a film created to encourage vocations. It was made at the request of the USCCB (who’d thunk?!) by an organization called Grassroots Films. They are in Brooklyn, NY and have done work for Fr. Groeschel.
You need Quicktime to view it but it is fabulous. This is just the trailer but the story involves a priest stuck in a traffic jam because of a car accident. He gets involved to give Last Rites.
T
TPJCatholic
Guest
m134e5,
Yes, I agree that we are to “personally” accept, love and seek our Lord…no doubt at all. Yet, the false Protestant theology leads one to think that all they have to do is “accept Jesus as their personal savior” and they will be saved…that is pure nonsense and it goes against 2,000 years of Christian faith. Example: many modern Protestant Churches teach people that going to Church is “nice,” that being baptized is “nice,” that doing good works is “nice,” but that all of those things (and many more) are not at all required to be saved…that is just flat false and Catholics need to start adhering to what is true, not what is “nice.”
Since the beginning of the Church there has been failures on both sides, the clergy and the laity. Yet one of the major problems today is a lack of holy Priests and that very often lies in the hands of the parents who do not encourage vocations. The harvest is plentiful, yet the laborers are few…we need more laborers. Yet, to say that the Church is not effective fishers of men is false. There are awful lot of non-Catholics that are being very seriously lead astray.
Yes, I agree that we are to “personally” accept, love and seek our Lord…no doubt at all. Yet, the false Protestant theology leads one to think that all they have to do is “accept Jesus as their personal savior” and they will be saved…that is pure nonsense and it goes against 2,000 years of Christian faith. Example: many modern Protestant Churches teach people that going to Church is “nice,” that being baptized is “nice,” that doing good works is “nice,” but that all of those things (and many more) are not at all required to be saved…that is just flat false and Catholics need to start adhering to what is true, not what is “nice.”
Since the beginning of the Church there has been failures on both sides, the clergy and the laity. Yet one of the major problems today is a lack of holy Priests and that very often lies in the hands of the parents who do not encourage vocations. The harvest is plentiful, yet the laborers are few…we need more laborers. Yet, to say that the Church is not effective fishers of men is false. There are awful lot of non-Catholics that are being very seriously lead astray.
T
TPJCatholic
Guest
m134e5,
BTW, I am confused. What is wrong with knowing there are things we have to do? I must eat or I will die. I must breathe or I will die. I must follow the commandments, or else I am commiting mortal sin. I must love God and follow Him or else I have no hope of Heaven. And yes, I MUST go to Mass on Sundays and Holy Days because God has told us we must do this, first to the Jews on the Sabbath, and now to Christians through His Church.
Many people think that they are supposed to somehow be entertained when they go to Mass, yet the truth is God gives us 168 hours every week and all He takes is one hour (on average), not a heavy burden to carry. Sometimes Mass will contain a boring Homily, other times we might feel greatly moved by the Holy Spirit…yet being there, taking the effort to go to Mass, is still showing a commited respect for God, and that wise respect can grow into a genuine love overtime. I do not recall the Bible containing anything about being required to be jumping with joy each time we go to Mass…it simply says we must obey.
Americans want to be entertained all the time. Sometimes we need to just do what we are called to do without whining about being entertained. This exact topic is why megachurches are expanding…those places have Broadway-like appointments and huge tv screens and great sound systems, etc…yet they do have one speck of the divine or of the holy. The people leave those places feeling good because nothing is expected of them. There is no cross, no personal sacrifice, no following Jesus in the way that He walked, empty theology that leads millions astray every weekend.
BTW, I am confused. What is wrong with knowing there are things we have to do? I must eat or I will die. I must breathe or I will die. I must follow the commandments, or else I am commiting mortal sin. I must love God and follow Him or else I have no hope of Heaven. And yes, I MUST go to Mass on Sundays and Holy Days because God has told us we must do this, first to the Jews on the Sabbath, and now to Christians through His Church.
Many people think that they are supposed to somehow be entertained when they go to Mass, yet the truth is God gives us 168 hours every week and all He takes is one hour (on average), not a heavy burden to carry. Sometimes Mass will contain a boring Homily, other times we might feel greatly moved by the Holy Spirit…yet being there, taking the effort to go to Mass, is still showing a commited respect for God, and that wise respect can grow into a genuine love overtime. I do not recall the Bible containing anything about being required to be jumping with joy each time we go to Mass…it simply says we must obey.
Americans want to be entertained all the time. Sometimes we need to just do what we are called to do without whining about being entertained. This exact topic is why megachurches are expanding…those places have Broadway-like appointments and huge tv screens and great sound systems, etc…yet they do have one speck of the divine or of the holy. The people leave those places feeling good because nothing is expected of them. There is no cross, no personal sacrifice, no following Jesus in the way that He walked, empty theology that leads millions astray every weekend.
C
CatQuilt
Guest
and the mega-churches are going to be closed on Christmas Day…
T
TPJCatholic
Guest
CatQuilt,
Yes it is very sad. Catholic Churches will have Masses and most of them have a midnight Mass, which is always a moving Mass. I truly feel for those pople in the megaChurches…prayer is needed.
Yes it is very sad. Catholic Churches will have Masses and most of them have a midnight Mass, which is always a moving Mass. I truly feel for those pople in the megaChurches…prayer is needed.
N
Nohome
Guest
and it can only get worse. As the number of priests declines and Parishes close, Churches will get larger and less personal. For many priests it takes all their effort to just say the Mass and distribute the eucharist. There will continue to be fewer resources to build the flock when every bit of energy goes into merely sustaining it.
Nohome
P
Petergee
Guest
I’m sorry but this post disgusts me. I dare you to say that to an African Catholic! They are on average much more zealous in their faith than the average American. And I dare you to to tell any Church worker providing basic needs to poor Africans that you think they provide these basic needs only to people who “say that they are Catholic”. What bigoted and racist nonsense.
M
m134e5
Guest
Nothing is wrong with obedience, but it isn’t good enough to go to Mass “because the Church says so”- we should go to Mass out of love for God, and in appreciation for the gifts He has given us. We will all go through times of spiritual dryness, but that doesn’t mean we just go to Mass during that time because we are obligated to. When you truly love someone, you love them all the time and do things out of selfless love for them- even when you don’t feel “in love” with them.
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