Church of Christ

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Lisa4Catholics,

I am sorry that your family is so narrow minded and you must remember that not all religous groups fit into the same neat peg. I grew up Church of Christ and I have never heard Catholics called witches are evil, etc. I do know that there are strains of restorationists that are anti-catholic but there are others that know their history that understand that we have a lot in common. Once a person thinks from a restorationist frame of thinking they have three choices and they are the following: become a member of the church of Christ, become Catholic, or become Eastern Orthodox. The reason I say that is if one wants to be a member of the Church that Christ established they cannot go the traditional Protestant route because the accept that they are protesting the original Catholic church. The difference comes in the realization that one can either exept sacred tradition and scripture or just scripture alone. If a restorationist realizes that sacred tradition and scripture go side-by-side then the jump to Catholicism is not so hard. The hardest part is getting by ‘scripture only’.
 
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coachcj:
They believe in apostolic authority (which leads them to a Bible only pattern)
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I don’t understand this statement. The Apostolic Authority brought us Sacred Tradition, which is a fallacy to most Bible only faiths.
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coachcj:
If a restorationist realizes that sacred tradition and scripture go side-by-side then the jump to Catholicism is not so hard. The hardest part is getting by ‘scripture only’.
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Exactly! That’s why you must first cover Sola Scriptura in any discussion that leads to you explaining the Catholic Faith. If you don’t, any argument you use will have to be from the bible, eliminating all the Early Church Fathers writings and the Sacred Tradition which help to make our Faith such a beautiful institution!

John
 
Many of you said that the church of christ does not have musical instuments, the thing is there is a piano next to the alter at my local Church of Christ (I only go to church of christ because of youth group, I havn’t actually been to one of their masses)

I like to play Evanescence music on the piano! 😃

Your all getting me confused! :confused:

Can someone in dot points tell me the difference between catholic and church of christ.

Evanescence
 
Sure! That’s easy! We’re all going to Heaven and they’re all going to… No wait, my friend told me that they’re all going to Heaven and we’re all going to…

Seriously, is this what you’re looking for?

Catholic… CofC
1970+ years old …100 years old
Euch. Real Presence …No Real Pres.
Papal Authority …Local Author
Confession …No Confession
Infant Baptism …age of reason
Purgatory …???
Magesterium …Bible Only

Salvation? I’m not sure of their exact beliefs on this, but they are not Sola Fide (Faith Only) and they are not OSAS.
I know I could go on, but suffice it to say, they are not the Catholic Church!

This might have been mentioned earlier in the thread, but they believe the are the early Christians. They’ve just been in hiding since the Catholic Church “hi-jacked” the early Christian Church. This is what they call the Great Apostasy. I think this culminated with the CC converting Rome (Emperor Constantine) and bringing in idolatry and other pagan traditions as tools to convert Rome.

NotWorthy
 
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Evanescence:
Many of you said that the church of christ does not have musical instuments, the thing is there is a piano next to the alter at my local Church of Christ (I only go to church of christ because of youth group, I havn’t actually been to one of their masses)

I like to play Evanescence music on the piano! 😃

Evanescence
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Ultimately, you may have to ask them why. I’m only assuming (and you know what that means…), but evidently someone in a local CofC felt that piano’s in church was OK. Others in the church agreed, while still others disagreed. There became a large fight. Half the church split off and the other half stayed. I know this is a LARGE assumption, but I’ve heard numerous stories similar to this.

I’d love to
A) hear you playing Evanescence on their piano, and
B) know what’s going through some of the local congregation’s minds while they listen to you play Evanescence on their piano!!!

Thanks for the mental picture!

NotWorthy
 
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NotWorthy:
Ultimately, you may have to ask them why. I’m only assuming (and you know what that means…), but evidently someone in a local CofC felt that piano’s in church was OK. Others in the church agreed, while still others disagreed. There became a large fight. Half the church split off and the other half stayed. I know this is a LARGE assumption, but I’ve heard numerous stories similar to this.

I’d love to
A) hear you playing Evanescence on their piano, and
B) know what’s going through some of the local congregation’s minds while they listen to you play Evanescence on their piano!!!

Thanks for the mental picture!

NotWorthy
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The issue of instrumental accompaniment to congregational singing goes back to the earliest days of Church of Christ history, as I noted in an earliest post. It became a divisive issue only after the American Civil War, and some of the causes may have been due to regional antagonisms–most of the Churches of Christ were in the deep South and practiced Jim Crow, separate-but-equal, customs. The Christian Churches and the Disciples of Christ were generally located in more ‘Yankee’ areas of the country, had been more Abolitionist prior to the Civil War, and were at least less explicit about any vestigial racism. Making instrumental accompaniment an issue worthy of division may have been simply a contrivance which helped to justify the split.

In any case, the issue of instruments in congregational singing may not seem like such a huge issue any longer. Some congregations may have members willing to ‘stand-down’ from making this such a huge affair. Bear in mind also that the fact that one congregation prefers the name ‘Disciples of Christ’, another favors ‘Church of Christ’, a third calls itself ‘Christian Church of Bald Hollow’ or whatever does NOT absolutely identify which one of the three denominations the congregation identifies with. For historical reasons, one congregation, having existed since the early 1800’s, might call itself “First Christian Church of Bald Hollow”, and have identified itself NOT with the *Independent Christian Churches and Churches of Christ *but with the Churches of Christ or the Disciples of Christ. Best way to figure these things out is to look for the ‘small print’ which often follows the name of the congregation. The “Green Acres Church of Christ” whose sign specifies in smaller print that it is “Disciples of Christ” is obviously part of the *Disciples *denomination. A Disciples of Christ of Antioch Hills which specifies in it’s phone book listing that it is ‘non-instrumental/closed communion’ is likely to be part of the Churches of Christ movement. This is not a 100% guarantee, but it is helpful with this and most other Protestant Churches.

A final note on this issue. In the 1970’s and 1980’s a youth movement of the Churches of Christ, called originally the Boston Movement and later calling itself the International Churches of Christ or some such name, sprang up. Whle they are non-instrumental, they favor the use of ‘seeker-sensitive’ tactics, ‘shepherding’ of members, contemporary Christian music (WITHOUT instruments, I stress) and so forth. The ICC itself is extremely militant and has essentially schismed-off from the mainstream Churches of Christ, who have denonunced it. Some schisms from the ICC have not been so divisive, but membes of the ICC can tend to believe they are the only Christians around, with the only true Church in town (they only have ONE church or congregation per geographical area). They can use very high-pressure tactics to try to proselytise. They have been known to leaflet cars in the parking lots of both Protestant and Catholic churches. Please bear in mind that this group is NOT typical of the Churches of Christ generally. ICC has suffered some scandals and a leadership crises in recent years, and is less prominent than it was even ten years ago, but some of the truly negative experiences that people have had with the Churches of Christ have actually occurred within the ICC and not the older Churches of Christ denomination.

Hope this was informative.
 
Evanescense (sorry if I mispelt that) the so-called “churches of Christ” can be difficult to both understand and identify. Going by what you said about a piano next to the altar it seems like you are speaking of the Christian Churches and churches of Christ instead of the “church of Christ”.

I have been talking about what is called the Mainstream churches of Christ, while a very few of them might have pianos, guitars and drums (they never have pipe organs), none of them have altars they have “Lord’s Supper tables” instead.

Every one of the churches of Christ is completely independent pf all the others, they have no dioceses, presbyteries, synods or associations and the teaching although simular can be different from congregation to congregation in minor emphasis.

There are three major denominations in the Campbellite/Restoration tradition. First the Disciples of Christ which ranges from moderate to liberal, then the Independent Christian churches/churches of Christ which ranges from conservative to fundamentalist, and then the churches of Christ which are uiniformly fundamentalist. The names they use tend to be interchangable which is confusing.
 
To further confuse things their are seven different denominations all calling themselves the “church of Christ”. They all use the same name but have different teachings and practices.
  1. The “grace centered” csofC which occasionally allows instrumental music in their churches, and are relatively “liberal” as csofC go.
  2. The Boston or International csofC which are a full fledged controling cult.
  3. The mainstream cofC which bans instrumental music, and has sunday school classes.
  4. The “anti” csofC, which bans sunday school classes finding them “unscriptural”.
  5. The “anti” csofC which bans church funding for “institutions” like church schools and universities, retirement centers, and orphanages homes for unmarried mothers, again finding them “unscriptural”.
  6. The “anti” csofC which uses a single glass for the grape juice in their “Lord’s Supper”, finding the use of individual shot glasses “unscriptural”.
  7. The “anti” csofC who consider parish halls and kitchens dining rooms of church property to be “unscriptural”.
All of these seperate denominations use the same (church of Christ) name, yet they have different beleifs and deny “fellowship” and even the name “Christian” to each other.

Confusing isn’t it?
 
piano next to the altar it seems like you are speaking of the Christian Churches and churches of Christ instead of the “church of Christ”.
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It says on a big sign at the front of the church in bold writing “Church of Christ” 🙂

I’ll just ask them next time I go to Youth group “I’ve heard that Church of christ doesn’t allow music is that true?” :confused:

Evanescence
 
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Evanescence:
It says on a big sign at the front of the church in bold writing “Church of Christ” 🙂

I’ll just ask them next time I go to Youth group “I’ve heard that Church of christ doesn’t allow music is that true?” :confused:

Evanescence
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Yet as we have seen the name “church of Christ” does not mean that much with eight differently teaching and practicing denominations all using that same name.

Might I suggest that you ask them if they are members of the “Independent Christian Churches and Churches of Christ”, or a different church of christ?

Your location can be an important clue as well. If this congregation is located in the North, or Midwest it most likely is Independent and Churches of Christ.

If it is located in the Deep South, Southwest, or California it is probably the usually accapella fundamentalist “churches of Christ”.
 
Its located in Victoria Australia

Gosh thiese church of christ business is really getting me confused! :confused:

Evanescence
 
The Churches of Christ that I am a familiar with are very non-doctrinal, non-liturgical, believe in Sola Scriptura, and though they may have Communion every week (only one I know does this), they believe the bread and grape juice are merely symbolic.

Churches of Chirst believe they are a “New Testament Church”. That is, they have restored the church to its original model. They have no central authority…Thus each church (though loosely associated with other C OF C’S , is autonomous. The church I am most familiar with is very careful to have lots of checks and balances, but…

I have already mentioned the biggest difference…Their insistance that the bread and grape juice are mere “elements”…,but do not believe in transubstantiation, as we do. They do, however, believe that Jesus is present within these elements in a spritiual way.

Hope this helps a little.
 
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Evanescence:
Its located in Victoria Australia

Gosh thiese church of christ business is really getting me confused! :confused:

Evanescence
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Yep! That’s about as Deep South as you can get!

Oi!

NotWorthy
 
I got my 1901 American Standard Version from Star Bible, a Church of Christ book publisher in Texas!
 
I asked and they looked at me and said “Yeah of cause we allow music! we have heaps of music! who told you we didn’t allow music?”

So oviously they do allow music! thanks for the humiliation! :bigyikes:

Evanescence
 
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Evanescence:
I asked and they looked at me and said “Yeah of cause we allow music! we have heaps of music! who told you we didn’t allow music?”

So oviously they do allow music! thanks for the humiliation! :bigyikes:

Evanescence
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**Not in my neck of the woods they don’t;) **
 
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Evanescence:
I asked and they looked at me and said “Yeah of cause we allow music! we have heaps of music! who told you we didn’t allow music?”

So oviously they do allow music! thanks for the humiliation! :bigyikes:

Evanescence
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I don’t think you are reading this thread. Many of the C of Cs do not use musical INSTRUMENTS.

Dan L
 
I did ask also about the instruments, they allow that too I was just playing on the piano there just a while ago! 😃 the usual evanescence and my own made up stuff

Evanescence
 
I’ve seen some Church of Christ signs out in front of their building that say “Non-Instrumental”. Also, I’ve seen entries for Churches of Christ in the Yellow Pages that say “Non-Instrumental”.

Which makes me think that there must be some called “Church of Christ” who are “Instrumental”, or why would they bother to make the distinction?

I’ve got a cousin who is in a “Church of Christ”, and they use instruments.

That Star Bible publisher in Texas, that publishes a 1901 ASV, is Non-instrumental I think.

I used to work for a man who was in the Church of Christ. His children were active in “sings”; where young people would form small acapella groups and meet, from different individual churches. One of the nicest and most decent people I’ve ever met.

I used to work for another man, Church of Christ, who drove many miles to attend a “Non-instrumental” church. Again, a very nice man.
 
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