Church of England faces exodus over women bishop reforms

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lavalamp said:
Peace, please!

It is impossible to have a constructive dialog when you venting sarcasm.

Certainly, it is not sinful for women to work or men to care for children, who told you that?

And, while some priests may forget the example of poverty Christ set for them (I’m trying to be charitable), many do, in fact, suffer and sacrifice much for the good of the Church.

I encourage you to look deeply into why the Church teaches that it is impossible for it to ordain women.

And consider this: if you believe that God could have let the Church be in error for 2000 years on this subject (and maybe others you find objectionable), can you really believe that the Church is, in fact the Body of Christ, which the gates of hell will not prevail against? Maybe you should consider Anglicanism.
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I endorse 99% of this post as a response. Scriptures differentiate between home life, church life, and public/secular life. There are plenty of things holding women back in secular life to get angry about, but there’s no “glass ceiling” in the church. Freedom in Christ comes from submission, and that’s something both men and women need to do. Freedom in the public sphere is different, and scriptures differentiate in many ways between a) what happens in the home between husband and wife alone, b) what happens in the Church, and c) what happens outside the home and outside the Church. I think there is some confusion about those three categories of behavior, because they aren’t necessarily the same.

And one can perform their God-given roles very well with the woman working and the man taking care of the kids. Much of it is attitude. In a perfect household, submitting would be easy and so would leading, and neither party would see it as being slighted in any way, but we are imperfect beings and must do the best we can as God has commanded. I reiterate that many men who are abusive or condescending or unhelpful to their wives will have to answer for it before God. They must give all that they are to their wives, because she is to be treated as a part of his body and a co-equal spiritual heir to the Kingdom of God. In some things, the man has authority in the same manner as Christ has authority over the Church- a better example would be the Pope- as a careful, loving steward and representative of the family. Again, those domineering men who misuse their position and treat their wives poorly sin before God.

I have been told Catholics believe the Bible is the inerrant Word of God. Certainly it is not wrong?
 
Katzzzz said:
***Yes, it is very sinful for women to work outside the home instead of working in the home. Actually it’s a sin to some men because then women aren’t under the man’s thumb, don’t have to ask the man for money or take abuse and not have the money to go anywhere. Tough luck! By the way, what’s wrong with men staying home and raising children? Oh yeah, I forgot - they have the be the authority figures right? Or at least that’s what your “crowd” thinks. :rolleyes: ***
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Why are you so angry?

May the peace of Christ be with you.
 
Sacred Holy Orders has NOTHING to do with equality at all. Just because a woman is able to raise a chalice and recite prayers doesn’t mean it is correct. If the Holy Spirit wanted female priests, it would have been done already. :eek:
 
jay29 said:
Sacred Holy Orders has NOTHING to do with equality at all. Just because a woman is able to raise a chalice and recite prayers doesn’t mean it is correct. If the Holy Spirit wanted female priests, it would have been done already. :eek:
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It has been done already, just not in your church. Don’t be sexist here and even moreso, don’t be a biggot. It’s very unchristianlike.
 
SIA said:
It has been done already, just not in your church. Don’t be sexist here and even moreso, don’t be a biggot. It’s very unchristianlike.
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A minor correction. Just not in THE Church.Never has, never will. Unless of course one believes Jesus is a bigot…
 
SIA said:
I don’t believe your church to be THE church. That’s the whole difference…
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Your loss. I am sure you have created a god in your own image and likeness who approves of your every though and action.
 
SIA said:
It has been done already, just not in your church. Don’t be sexist here and even moreso, don’t be a biggot. It’s very unchristianlike.
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Not in the Orthodox Church, not in the Catholic Church, not in the Oriental Orthodox Church. Female priests are not in any of those Churches, all of whom have valid Apostolic Succession. The Anglican communion wants to be reunited with the Catholic Church, and is in talks with the Orthodox Church as well. I doubt any of those talks would go far if it is adamant in validating females as priests and bishops.
 
Milliardo said:
Not in the Orthodox Church, not in the Catholic Church, not in the Oriental Orthodox Church. Female priests are not in any of those Churches, all of whom have valid Apostolic Succession. The Anglican communion wants to be reunited with the Catholic Church, and is in talks with the Orthodox Church as well. I doubt any of those talks would go far if it is adamant in validating females as priests and bishops.
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I haven’t heard anything about Anglicans wanting to be in communion with Rome or the Orthodox. I think that if it were happening even on a medium scale, I would have heard about it.
 
SIA said:
I haven’t heard anything about Anglicans wanting to be in communion with Rome or the Orthodox. I think that if it were happening even on a medium scale, I would have heard about it.
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You must have missed out a lot since the Anglican communion has long been in talks with the Catholic Church, going back to the time when Pope John Paul II was alive. In fact, the archbishop of Canterbury at that time expressed his sadness for the talks stalling because one of the Catholic Church’s stipulation for reconciliation is to revoke the ordination of women into the priesthood–something the Anglican communion by then couldn’t do as it has already gone ahead with it. And it will never have any chance of reconciling with either the Orthodox or Catholic Church for as long as it holds on to this position.
 
Katzzzz said:
***Women are just as capable as men to be priests. Enough with this patriarchal society! That they would leave their church over this issue is just ridiculous!!! ***
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I’m sorry that you are so proud of this heretical thinking. There is no such thing as a conservative or a liberal Catholic. Either you’re Catholic or not. This line of thinking ties my stomach up in knots and is one of the reasons I abandoned the Catholic faith many years ago and came back recently screaming and kicking like a child that doesn’t want to do something. I tried. I tried like H.E. double toothpicks to get my wife to go to the Eastern Orthodox Church where this would never happen.
 
vocatio said:
I’m sorry that you are so proud of this heretical thinking. There is no such thing as a conservative or a liberal Catholic. Either you’re Catholic or not. This line of thinking ties my stomach up in knots and is one of the reasons I abandoned the Catholic faith many years ago and came back recently screaming and kicking like a child that doesn’t want to do something. I tried. I tried like H.E. double toothpicks to get my wife to go to the Eastern Orthodox Church where this would never happen.
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Yeah, heresy is always a good one to throw at someone who has an open mind when it comes to the Church. Isn’t that what happened to Martin Luther? Keep treating people that way and the Church will be very, very small indeed!
 
Katzzzz said:
Yeah, heresy is always a good one to throw at someone who has an open mind when it comes to the Church. Isn’t that what happened to Martin Luther? Keep treating people that way and the Church will be very, very small indeed!
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Well, better that the Church be small and faithful then large and leading people away from the faith. In this case, quality is better than quantity.
 
Katzzzz said:
Yeah, heresy is always a good one to throw at someone who has an open mind when it comes to the Church. Isn’t that what happened to Martin Luther? Keep treating people that way and the Church will be very, very small indeed!
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:confused: What does an “open mind” entail exactly? You have made a decision to support a certain viewpoint, correct? How does that leave your mind “open?” You’re mind is just as closed as the next persons’ mind. The only difference is that you are using open minded as if it is a state of mind that is superior to other states of mind. As if its opposite is a pejorative.

If you are willing to hear different points of view, that is being judicious, wise, and sensible. That is not being “open minded.”

So please tell me what you mean by open minded.
 
Some things just need to be repeated and emphasized:
GladCatholic said:
No, it won’t happen. usccb.org/comm/archives/1998/98-210a.shtml

"# What is the Catholic Church’s teaching on priestly ordination concerning women?

In the apostolic letter, Ordinatio Sacerdotalis, Pope John Paul II reaffirmed that the Catholic Church has no authority to confer priestly ordination on women. This teaching is to be held definitively by all the faithful as belonging to the deposit of faith. The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith clarified the authority of this teaching by stating that it is founded on the written Word of God, has been constantly preserved and applied in the Tradition of the Church, and has been set forth infallibly by the universal ordinary magisterium." (emphasis mine).
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Katzzzz said:
Yeah, heresy is always a good one to throw at someone who has an open mind when it comes to the Church. Isn’t that what happened to Martin Luther? Keep treating people that way and the Church will be very, very small indeed!
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It would be helpful if we knew what your perspective on the Church.

For insatnce you told me emphatically that my Church is not your Church. What does that mean? And what exactly does the label “liberal Catholic” mean?
 
ALotLessThumb said:
:confused: What does an “open mind” entail exactly? You have made a decision to support a certain viewpoint, correct? How does that leave your mind “open?” You’re mind is just as closed as the next persons’ mind. The only difference is that you are using open minded as if it is a state of mind that is superior to other states of mind. As if its opposite is a pejorative.

If you are willing to hear different points of view, that is being judicious, wise, and sensible. That is not being “open minded.”

So please tell me what you mean by open minded.
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***Being open-minded is the ability to look at different ways a job can be accomplished and not stuck in the same spot. Being open-minded is being able to accept that “gee maybe things aren’t carved in stone” - with respect to women priests, if they existed and you didn’t like it, don’t go to one but let those who would embrace and accept them do so without being call heretical! :rolleyes: ***
 
Katzzzz said:
***Being open-minded is the ability to look at different ways a job can be accomplished and not stuck in the same spot. Being open-minded is being able to accept that “gee maybe things aren’t carved in stone” - with respect to women priests, if they existed and you didn’t like it, don’t go to one but let those who would embrace and accept them do so without being call heretical! :rolleyes: ***
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The Pope says he does not have the authority to allow women priests. That is about as carved in stone as it can get.
 
Katzzzz said:
***Women are just as capable as men to be priests. Enough with this patriarchal society! That they would leave their church over this issue is just ridiculous!!! ***
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You refer to capability, as though THAT is the crux of the argument against women Priests. Never does capability come up.

It is the fact that the Holy Spirit has disalllowed this from ever happening. IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN. No matter how much we whine, it will never happen. Why continue to complain and whine then?

Instead, God rewarded you with Mary, and still, that isn’t enough.

It must sadden the Lord that the only corporeal, non-deity being ever chosen to remain sinless on earth was a woman, not a man, and yet, you whine to Him that this isn’t enough.
 
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