Church of England faces exodus over women bishop reforms

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Honestly, I doubt that all that many will leave the Anglican Church over this. The same thing was said when they began to ordain women to the priesthood, but it didn’t happen. It was said here in the USA when they ordained an openly gay man bishop, but it didn’t happen. You may see dibs and drabs, but not the mass conversion so many on here long for. I predict that most Anglicans will continue going to their parish churches as before, no matter who is wearing the mitre in their cathedrals.
 
Katzzzz - why are you Catholic?

I don’t mean this to be confrontational, I’m just wondering why it is that you identify yourself as Catholic when so much of what you say here is in direct opposition to the teaching of the Church you claim as your own.

Perhaps knowing WHY you choose to say you are Catholic, yet still defy the Church, may help us to understand where you are coming from. Because for the life of me, I just don’t get why someone would want to be a part of something that is so drastically different from what they wish it to be.

:confused:

~Liza
 
I agree with anamachrist.

As for Katz, I’m sure there is still an open seat at my previous ECUSA Parish, You would probably be very happy there. 😦

God bless.
 
Katzzzz said:
***Women are just as capable as men to be priests. Enough with this patriarchal society! That they would leave their church over this issue is just ridiculous!!! ***
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As a woman trained for priesthood in the Episcopal Church (aka: Church of England in the Colonies), who is now Catholic, I find your statement to be both dated and predictable. It is typical of the shrill, purely political, canned, hysterical rhetoric that accompanied so much old-school feminism. Decent feminists haven’t bawled such shopworn diatribes for more than a decade.
 
anamchrist said:
Honestly, I doubt that all that many will leave the Anglican Church over this. The same thing was said when they began to ordain women to the priesthood, but it didn’t happen. It was said here in the USA when they ordained an openly gay man bishop, but it didn’t happen. You may see dibs and drabs, but not the mass conversion so many on here long for. I predict that most Anglicans will continue going to their parish churches as before, no matter who is wearing the mitre in their cathedrals.
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Yes it did happen. Has been happening. Is still happening. There has been a steady drain to Rome and Orthodoxy over the past 30 years.
 
anamchrist said:
Honestly, I doubt that all that many will leave the Anglican Church over this. The same thing was said when they began to ordain women to the priesthood, but it didn’t happen. It was said here in the USA when they ordained an openly gay man bishop, but it didn’t happen. You may see dibs and drabs, but not the mass conversion so many on here long for. I predict that most Anglicans will continue going to their parish churches as before, no matter who is wearing the mitre in their cathedrals.
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Yes it did happen. Has been happening. Is still happening. There has been a steady drain to Rome and Orthodoxy over the past 30 years. Nearly 500 Anglican Priests have come into the Roman fold.
 
Katzzzz said:
Being open-minded is the ability to look at different ways a job can be accomplished and not stuck in the same spot.
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:dts: That is being judicious and wise; and “open-minded” might apply to the first part of that sentence; but nothing gets accomplished with an open mind, that is why you make a choice so that you can move forward.
Being open-minded is being able to accept that “gee maybe things aren’t carved in stone” - with respect to women priests, if they existed and you didn’t like it, don’t go to one but let those who would embrace and accept them do so without being call heretical! :rolleyes:
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🤷 I don’t know how this has anything to do with “open-minded” positions, other than you are basically saying:

“If you don’t agree with me, then you are a 'closed-minded, bottom feeding cave people”

That is how it is reading. 😦

What is your theological/philosophical argument for women priests? Besides “equality” which is nothing more than a catch-all phrase that is too vague.

Nor do I understand why in your post you argue that “don’t go to one if you don’t like it”- when did the Catholic Church decentralize to a point where it would be acceptable for some to have it or none. One key point of the Catholic faith is (at least theoretically) uniformity. A former Pope (John Paul II) has stated that there is nothing anyone can do on the issue. It literally is set in stone, and an essentially infallible part of the faith- so why is the term heresy not applicable to this position?
 
If the Roman Church is going to continue to deny equality to women (which Jesus himself set in stone, that men and women are made equal through His Death and Resurrection), the I suggest they do the following:
  1. Institute different sets of Sacraments for men and women, especially Baptismal practices. Cut the propaganda rubbish about men and women being equal, because your Church creates different class systems (something anathema to Jesus the Lord).
 
Roamin_Xian said:
If the Roman Church is going to continue to deny equality to women (which Jesus himself set in stone, that men and women are made equal through His Death and Resurrection), the I suggest they do the following:
  1. Institute different sets of Sacraments for men and women, especially Baptismal practices. Cut the propaganda rubbish about men and women being equal, because your Church creates different class systems (something anathema to Jesus the Lord).
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Perhaps you might refer your directives to the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments in the Vatican. I am sure they would be most interested in your views.
 
Roamin_Xian said:
If the Roman Church is going to continue to deny equality to women (which Jesus himself set in stone, that men and women are made equal through His Death and Resurrection), the I suggest they do the following:
  1. Institute different sets of Sacraments for men and women, especially Baptismal practices. Cut the propaganda rubbish about men and women being equal, because your Church creates different class systems (something anathema to Jesus the Lord).
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What is equality? Is there no difference between men and women- and it’s all social?
  • and for the record, I am currently not Catholic, but when I was, I wasn’t necessarily opposed to female deacons; but I have yet to see a real theological opening for the priesthood beside vague modern terminologies that have more to do with the whim of sociology and less to do with theological pursuits.*
 
Roamin_Xian said:
If the Roman Church is going to continue to deny equality to women (which Jesus himself set in stone, that men and women are made equal through His Death and Resurrection), the I suggest they do the following:
  1. Institute different sets of Sacraments for men and women, especially Baptismal practices. Cut the propaganda rubbish about men and women being equal, because your Church creates different class systems (something anathema to Jesus the Lord).
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Given you left the Church to join a denomination that allows just about anyhting our culture approves why do you care? or is just a parting shot?
 
Roamin_Xian said:
If the Roman Church is going to continue to deny equality to women (which Jesus himself set in stone, that men and women are made equal through His Death and Resurrection), the I suggest they do the following:
  1. Institute different sets of Sacraments for men and women, especially Baptismal practices. Cut the propaganda rubbish about men and women being equal, because your Church creates different class systems (something anathema to Jesus the Lord).
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While women could pray and prophesy in church (1 Cor. 11:1-16), they could not teach or have authority over a man (1 Tim. 2:11-14), these being two essential functions of the clergy, nor could women publicly question or challenge the teaching of the clergy (1 Cor. 14:34-38).

Hippolytus

“When a widow is to be appointed, she is not to be ordained, but is designated by being named [a widow]. . . . A widow is appointed by words alone, and is then associated with the other widows. Hands are not imposed on her, because she does not offer the oblation and she does not conduct the liturgy. Ordination is for the clergy because of the liturgy; but a widow is appointed for prayer, and prayer is the duty of all” (Apostolic Tradition 11 [A.D. 215]).

So by what decree and authority do you declare you have the ability to change, interpet, and omit what the bible and early Church fathers have taught?
 
Roamin_Xian said:
If the Roman Church is going to continue to deny equality to women (which Jesus himself set in stone, that men and women are made equal through His Death and Resurrection), the I suggest they do the following:
  1. Institute different sets of Sacraments for men and women, especially Baptismal practices. Cut the propaganda rubbish about men and women being equal, because your Church creates different class systems (something anathema to Jesus the Lord).
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Thanks for helping clear up what other scholars couldn’t nail in the last 2000 years. I email the Pope and let him know.
 
Roamin_Xian said:
If the Roman Church is going to continue to deny equality to women (which Jesus himself set in stone, that men and women are made equal through His Death and Resurrection)
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Oh wow you’re right! We are equal in EVERY respect. As a man I am going to go see if I can get pregnant. I’ll update you on the progress.

Equal does not mean identical.
 
anamchrist said:
Honestly, I doubt that all that many will leave the Anglican Church over this. The same thing was said when they began to ordain women to the priesthood, but it didn’t happen. It was said here in the USA when they ordained an openly gay man bishop, but it didn’t happen. You may see dibs and drabs, but not the mass conversion so many on here long for. I predict that most Anglicans will continue going to their parish churches as before, no matter who is wearing the mitre in their cathedrals.
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I would agree. No mass conversion in England after the ordination of women. 400 or so priests but relatively less even among laity.

The Anglican Use provision in the US has seen disappointing results according to the April Catholic World Report. After years there like 6 or so Anglican Use parishes in the US.

I fully expect the large majority of Anglicans will muddle on whether they like it or not. TRhere is less here in this news item than some would want to make it to be. JMO.
 
BTW, what dos the acronym TAC stand for? I forget. Can’t find them on the web. Interesting to see their reaction to this.

In England anyway it does not seem the castholic church was anxious to accomodate after women were ordained ministers. That is just my impression. Has Joanna Bogle written anything on this?
 
rien said:
I would agree. No mass conversion in England after the ordination of women. 400 or so priests but relatively less even among laity.

The Anglican Use provision in the US has seen disappointing results according to the April Catholic World Report. After years there like 6 or so Anglican Use parishes in the US.

I fully expect the large majority of Anglicans will muddle on whether they like it or not. TRhere is less here in this news item than some would want to make it to be. JMO.
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The Anglican Use, which only is found in the US, is a transitional situation, and is not intended to be permanent. I estimate that there have been something like 20+ such parishes since they were authorized, but, except for the trophy parishes in Texas, they mostly will convert to NO, usually at the death of the orginal Anglican priest. AU is a Use, not a Rite, and has no provision for being continued.

There was an Anglican Use parish in my hometown, formed by some of the Episcopalians who left TEC at the same time those who formed my traditional Anglican parish left. We were sort of sister parishes. That Anglican Use parish became NO, and now is the local parish for the TLM.

GKC
 
rien said:
BTW, what dos the acronym TAC stand for? I forget. Can’t find them on the web. Interesting to see their reaction to this.

In England anyway it does not seem the castholic church was anxious to accomodate after women were ordained ministers. That is just my impression. Has Joanna Bogle written anything on this?
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Possibly you are looking for the Traditional Anglican Communion, a group of so-called Continuing Anglican jurisdictions.

GKC
 
Katzzzz said:
***Yeah, heresy is always a good one to throw at someone who has an open mind when it comes to the Church. ***
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I always liked this quote:

“Be careful not to be so open-minded that your brains fall out.”

~GK Chesterton
 
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