Church of England lifts ban on gay bishops

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guanophore said:
It is strictly against the Teachings of Jesus to deride anyone, including someone living in sin.

It is a big deal for Catholics because we are observing the gradual skid of Protestants into doctrinal compromise. This is the sad consequence of rending the seamless garment of the One Faith.
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You are so right. When one of us is weaken in God by the action of leaders, we all are weakened, even if we are of another faith. We are all children of Gods, we all answer to him.
 
GKC said:
pablope;10233026:
GKC;10232929:
I’m mostly scripture, Tradition and reason, myself. But I don’t exclude Rome. That’s the Patriarch of the West, there.

GKC
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Thanks…if you do not mind extending the questioning further…you said…“scripture, Tradition and reason, myself”…so you are saying, you are the authority youself as the final arbiter?

What do you mean you don’t exclude Rome?
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pablope said:
GKC;10233315:
pablope;10233026:
Thanks…if you do not mind extending the questioning further…you said…“scripture, Tradition and reason, myself”…so you are saying, you are the authority youself as the final arbiter?

What do you mean you don’t exclude Rome?
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I mean Rome is part of Tradition. It has apostolic succession, and back when my late rector was alive, each Mass he would mention the Holy Father by name, as well as the current Greek Orthodox Patriarch, in the prayers for all faithful bishops.

No, the myself meant that I was one of the sort of Anglicans who found authority in scripture, Tradition and logic.

GKC
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God’s son; knowing there would be division among the twelve; appointed one person in which his spirit will protect from every error; so that when division arises each apostle knows where to turn to keep the body of Christ united.
 
JaKael02 said:
God’s son; knowing there would be division among the twelve; appointed one person in which his spirit will protect from every error; so that when division arises each apostle knows where to turn to keep the body of Christ united.
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This is confirmed in the Scripture when Jesus tells all the Apostles that Satan has desired to sift them, but Jesus prays (only) for Peter, that his faith fail not, then instructs Peter, when he has recovered, to strengthen his brethren.
 
This is an old thread but I wanted to find a previous discussion on gay bishops. I read on the ELCA website that the first Lutheran gay bishop in America was consecrated/ installed in Los Angeles.

Bishop Erwin of the Southwest California Synod
 
Could somebody explain something for me? How is it possible to simultaneously be in a civil partnership and be celibate? Aren’t the two mutually exclusive? A vow of celibacy is a vow to not marry, is it not?
 
Brandon_Cal said:
Could somebody explain something for me? How is it possible to simultaneously be in a civil partnership and be celibate? Aren’t the two mutually exclusive? A vow of celibacy is a vow to not marry, is it not?
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Do Anglican clergy even take a vow of celibacy? I think this is pretty much a Catholic thing.
 
GKC said:
Considering that Anglicanism permits married clergy …

GKC
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Exactly. A vow of celibacy is not at issue. Openly practicing what is considered by most Christians to be sinful, deviant sexual behavior is the issue. This crosses the line between personal sin and scandal as well when it involves clergy, especially bishops.
 
does not celibacy = do not engage in sexual relations
  • plenty of married people in the above situation
    :cool:
 
SteveVH said:
Exactly. A vow of celibacy is not at issue. Openly practicing what is considered by most Christians to be sinful, deviant sexual behavior is the issue. This crosses the line between personal sin and scandal as well when it involves clergy, especially bishops.
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Yep.

GKC
 
cmodrmac said:
does not celibacy = do not engage in sexual relations
  • plenty of married people in the above situation
    :cool:
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Celibacy simply has nothing to do with the issue at hand because Anglican bishops do not take a vow of celibacy. The issue is the homosexual act which is inherently different than a bishop who may wish to marry someday.
 
SteveVH said:
Exactly. A vow of celibacy is not at issue. Openly practicing what is considered by most Christians to be sinful, deviant sexual behavior is the issue. This crosses the line between personal sin and scandal as well when it involves clergy, especially bishops.
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Broaden this, Steve. ANY sexual activity outside the bounds of marriage is sin. The irony of the ELCA position is that heterosexual pastors who have a partner must be married, while homosexual pastors may be in a dedicated relationship.

Now, I don’t know if Bishop Erwin is in an intimate relationship or not, but if he is, it is a sad, sad statement on the direction of the ELCA.

Jon
 
Brandon_Cal said:
Could somebody explain something for me? How is it possible to simultaneously be in a civil partnership and be celibate? Aren’t the two mutually exclusive? A vow of celibacy is a vow to not marry, is it not?
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Not being married is a discipline while celibacy is a vow. I believe you can be married and live as brother/sister if the celibacy vow is taken.

There are Catholic Priests that are married. I don’t know of any Bishops that are?

**1 Timothy 3:**1 The saying is sure: If any one aspires to the office of bishop, he desires a noble task. 2 Now a bishop must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, sensible, dignified, hospitable, an apt teacher,

It doesn’t say the husband of one husband…
 
EvangelCatholic said:
Unrelated to gay bishops but a sign of the times is that the Church of Ireland elected first female bishop recently:
episcopaldigitalnetwork.com/ens/2013/09/23/church-of-ireland-elects-first-female-bishop-pat-storey/
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  1. Although the teaching that priestly ordination is to be reserved to men alone has been preserved by the constant and universal Tradition of the Church and firmly taught by the Magisterium in its more recent documents, at the present time in some places it is nonetheless considered still open to debate, or the Church’s judgment that women are not to be admitted to ordination is considered to have a merely disciplinary force.
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Wherefore, in order that all doubt may be removed regarding a matter of great importance, a matter which pertains to the Church’s divine constitution itself, in virtue of my ministry of confirming the brethren (cf. Lk 22:32) I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church’s faithful.
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Invoking an abundance of divine assistance upon you, venerable brothers, and upon all the faithful, I impart my apostolic blessing.
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From the Vatican, on May 22, the Solemnity of Pentecost, in the year 1994, the sixteenth of my Pontificate.
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