"Church" of Sweden "queers" Jesus

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Since I’m not fluent in Swedish I can’t be certain but what it looks like is a brochure geared to an LGBTQ audience. It’s not indoctrination. I get that a lot of people want LGBTQ people to be quiet and go away but their visibility and representation important.

And as an example of Lifesite’s lack of credibility, this thread:
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Report: Fitness Center Bans Woman For Refusing To Share Locker Room With Transgender Man Moral Theology
https://www.dailywire.com/news/33174/planet-fitness-bans-woman-refusing-share-locker-paul-bois “The woman had her membership terminated after expressing her desire not to get naked in the locker room alongside a man presenting himself as a woman.” A letter sent by a lawyer to the company’s CEO says that “the woman ‘iis the survivor of an attempted rape,’ which makes her ‘sensitive to men in places where they do not have a legitimate purpose.’ When she voiced her concern to staff at the Leesbur…
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was about a story I still can’t find on any unbiased newsite, not local news even. The original article was from Lifesite News and the only sites who picked up were fringe, far right.

Years ago they published an article criticizing Harry Potter and the author interviewed admitted he’d only read parts of a couple of the books, watched one of the movies and they thought he was a credible source. Oh, please. If I went looking I’d find more but these were linked to on CAF.

Seriously, you can find better sources, ones that aren’t quite so white nationalist friendly. Someone linked Lifenews upthread. Give that a try.
 
Salibi said:
So in the Church of Denmark there is an all-male scaramental priest faction and another one that supports female ordination?
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In principle yes, because the regulations of the Danish church are so free to individual interpretation, however it’s a fraction of the clergy that is so small that I’d be hard pressed to call it a faction. I think about 2/3 of Danish priests are women in the first place.
 
Of course there would also be room for a faction believing in the sacramental priesthood AND female ordinations. Technically.
 
prayerrider said:
But why bring this up?
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Because it is not just the Church of Sweden that claims this about Jesus. Holy Cross College, Worcester, MA is recognized by the local bishop as a Roman Catholic college. And Roman Catholic Fr. Philip Boroughs, SJ, president of the College, is a Roman Catholic priest in good and excellent standing in the Roman Catholic Church.
 
LifeSite’s primary mission is opposing abortion. Is it this that makes them “white nationalist,” or is it their opposition to advancement of the homosexual agenda within the Catholic Church that makes them “white nationalist?”
 
prayerrider said:
An openly lesbian presiding “bishop” speaks pretty well to how far they’ve gone, yes?
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They’re hardly the only denomination that has gay or lesbian bishops. Karen Oliveto was the first openly lesbian person to be elected a bishop in the United Methodist Church in 2016 when she was elected bishop of the Western Jurisdictional Conference. Mary Glasspool was elected a suffragan bishop in the Episcopal Diocese of Los Angeles in 2010 and 2016 and is now an assistant bishop in the Episcopal Diocese of New York. She is the first open lesbian to be consecrated a bishop in the Anglican Communion. And the Rev. R. Guy Irwin is the first openly gay man to be elected a bishop in the Evangelical Lutheran Church in American (ELCA) in 2013 and is still currently the bishop of the Southwest California Synod of the ELCA.
 
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Please elaborate, without melodramatic innuendo, on precisely how the eleven year old writings of a professor at Holy Cross College (writings condemned by the Bishop of Worcester) relate to the present situation of the church of Sweden?
 
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No one said they were the first, or only. Does the fact that other churches have gone down the same path excuse the church of Sweden? If a number of people jump off a cliff, does that mean others should, too?
 
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Not questioning this nor judging the Danish Church but I find this strange😂.

How can these two concepts of priesthood coexist? Wouldnt the Danish Church be better off as two Churches?
 
I said and meant white nationalist “friendly.” When the Daily Stormer is running the same headline it’s concerning, especially since a lot of white nationalists are coming out the Catholic woodwork. There are/were a few here on CAF and on other Catholic forums it seems to be an expectated ideology. It’s c o n c e r n i n g. I don’t want that having any connection to the prolife movement.
 
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So LifeSite News is now downgraded from “white nationalist” to “white nationalist friendly?” Could it be that they have nothing to do with “white nationalist” at all, other than in vague, unfounded and speculative accusation?
 
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I never said it was white nationalist. I noted that the same fringe, right wing sites, including the Daily Stormer were the only ones freaking out about the brochure. I think I said those particular sites were strange bedfellows.
 
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prayerrider said:
The Swedish Church is distributing an LGBTQ guide it designed for “Christian queer kids” that identifies Jesus as “queer” and describes the Old Testament’s Joseph as a transvestite.
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Satanic perversion.
 
So let me tell you one thing: this is not an easy subject or issue!
The Catholic Church and the Church of Sweden have a dialog. Why even discuss something like this unless you actually have any dialog with the Church of Sweden. Dont you have Lutherans in your own countries!?
Why are you so interested in the Swedish Lutherans? I find this topic interesting as I am Swedish myself and meet people from the Church of Sweden.
The booklet was published by Västerås stift and the Lutherans here in Sweden dont ussualy agree on everything. Some even argue against women priests. The Catholics Church at least have the magisterium but the modern Church of Sweden only have opinions and conscience as a guide but with no magisterium as a help. But Catholics have.

Also making it difficult is when, for example, Antje Jackelen, the archbishop of the Swedish Lutheran church, thinks the Virgin Birth is a mythological term and supports same-sex “marriage” in church. This is very difficult, isn’t it, for providing a common witness?

It’s true — there are questions that are very tricky, and we cannot hide that. That’s our daily problem, but we need to say there are some old divisions not solved, and we have these new divisions because within the Lutheran Church there are also many who do not accept same-sex “marriage.”

Some 800 pastors have said they’re not willing to do these “marriages.” So I’d say within the Lutheran Church there are different points of view.

 
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I grew up Lutheran and the Holy Communion service was basically the same as the Ordinary Form of Roman Mass, but with doctrinally problematic changes (for example, the Lutheran confiteor expresses the total depravity of the sinner). A Lutheran rite is like “Roman Lite” and there really is no need to preserve anything by keeping them in a separate ordinariate. We also should not forget that Martin Luther was a heretic and the schism was due to doctrinal dissent, rather than jurisdictional. The High Anglo-Catholics could claim, theoretically, that they kept the faith intact and became “autocephalous” albeit illegitimately. Lutheranism rejected a lot of doctrine (5 of 7 sacraments) and did not add anything that is not heterodox. They did make some nice hymns, though.
 
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Neithan said:
I grew up Lutheran and the Holy Communion service was basically the same as the Ordinary Form of Roman Mass, but with doctrinally problematic changes (for example, the Lutheran confiteor expresses the total depravity of the sinner).
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I was actually thinking about this myself.
The OF looks more like a Luther mass than the EF. How is this?
 
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I think one of Pope St. Paul VI’s aims with the new missal and liturgical reform was ecumenism. I don’t know if it accomplished what he hoped for. I will say, though, that the similarity made me feel at home when I first went to an actual Catholic Mass back in December of 2004 (right around the time I joined these forums, actually). So it has born some fruit. 🙂 But that’s another reason there really is no need for a separate ordinariate. The Church has already taken extraordinary measures to welcome Lutherans, much to the chagrin of traditionalist Catholics (and I sympathize, but I still prefer the OF).
 
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And you felt home singing the same hymns you sang at the Lutheran mass?
To me it does give a bit if a protestant feeling singing entrance hymns. Last Sunday the entrance hymn was a hymn sung by the Protestants. The reason for choosing an entrance hymn rather than the Gregorian introitus seem to be that people think some of the elements of the Protestant mass should be present at the Catholic Mass.
I mean, it feels a bit protestant singing an entrance hymn. I do like hymns with organ accompaniment but I dont like taking away the Gregorian introitus.
How do you think about it?
I sing/practice hymns with my vocal teacher who has worked as a singer in the Church of Sweden.
I would think that converts would experience an Introitus as more Catholoc than an entrance hymn (even if they never been an active Protestant).
 
I’ve had the good fortune of belonging to parishes where the OF is really well celebrated. The ordinary and propers of the mass with Gregorian chant is best, and the entrance hymn, if there is one, can be sung before the Introit; it doesn’t have to be either/or. The OF is versatile, but that’s one of the problems because it can be “over produced” and manipulated into something very different from Catholic tradition.
 
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AFAIK, the Roman Catholic theologian has not withdrawn his statements on this and he is said to be a man of deep faith.
 
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