church pastor says I can't kneel

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There is nothing wrong with making time to talk to your pastor about your concerns. And there is nothing wrong with giving up on your aspirations to be a lector in order to remain as you were previous to this dilemma.
There is also nothing wrong with attending a different parish as we must be guardians of our own faith and try (reasonably) within our means to place ourselves in an authentic Catholic environment that is (most) conducive to our growth in faith and virtue. Even aside from the clergy, part of (perhaps often but not always) the reason leaders persist in their actions whether right or wrong is because people allow them to and they see that people are accepting of their mandate, directive, discipline, practice etc.
If you do choose to confront him, be charitable, direct and stand your ground, but do remember charity. It is always best to thank people for the good that they do and offer, even when you must confront them with a problem. After all, he is a priest and ordained so proper respect must be given. I don’t know for sure, but I would say that it is possible the reason so many bishops and priest are disobedient to tradition is because they have all the support of the dissenters, and little, if any support of the good orthodox Catholics. Leaders need good and faithful followers who charitably and justifiably correct them when wrong and stand behind them when they are right. I understand that there are extreme circumstances or situations/problems, but this is just a generalization.
Using the GIRM would be difficult for anyone to challenge him or anyone else with. From what I have read of the GIRM posted here so far by previous forum users the language of the GIRM is not very directive although it is claimed that the GIRM is a directive itself. In other words, the GIRM doesn’t seem to use language that is fit for use in a directive.
Phrases like:
“But they should kneel at the consecration…”
You can take that to your priest and tell him that the GIRM instructs the faithful to kneel.
However, he can direct you toward that exact same line and tell you that the word should implies that he or a bishop has the liscence to carry out that part of the liturgy as he sees fit.
While this wording was most likely used to account for the faithful who are not physically able to kneel (due to age or handicap), and expresses a norm for the faithful to follow, it is still weak wording.
To be a directive it would be less problematic to read:
“The faithful must kneel at the consencration…”*
*except in cases of age, handicap, etc…
That is much (not all) of the problem with much of the post concicular documents in that they contain weak wording that leaves them too open for interpretation.

Pray for him (your priest) and it wouldn’t hurt to let him know you do such a holy spiritual work for his beloved soul.
 
Br.Rich_SFO said:
Show Him the GIRM and tell him he is wrong to request that people stand.
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From what the OP has written, I doubt he would get anywhere with this priest. The priest had issue with his kneeling and he did so in an uncharitable and demeaning way, IMO.

What I think is at part of the issue is the OP choice to kneel instead of stand and thus not worship in uniformity with the rest of the congregation. The concluding paragraph of article 43 says the following:
With a view to a uniformity in gestures and postures during one and the same celebration, the faithful should follow the directions which the deacon, lay minister, or priest gives according to whatever is indicated in the Missal.
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Uniformity is important, and thus the OP should follow the priest’s instructions and stand. What I indicated in bold is what I think the OP should do *in the interim. *However, the priest needs to follow what I underlined. Not being unique in posture is the OP’s responsibility. Making sure the GIRM is followed to the letter is the priest’s responsibility.

What I would do is to write to your bishop of the situation and inform him of the practice. Indicate that you have read the GIRM and are aware that there are provisions in which one may stand if there is another “good reason”. I would ask your bishop what “some other good reason” may be and whether your parish has a “good reason” for standing.

At my Latin Rite Parish we stand and my pastor told me it was because standing has been a practice at our parish for years. I don’t know if that really is a good reason, but it’s my hope that with clustering becoming a reality, they will see the value in doing things like the rest of the Latin Rite Catholic churches in the area do.
 
pprimeau1976 said:
At my Latin Rite Parish we stand and my pastor told me it was because standing has been a practice at our parish for years. I don’t know if that really is a good reason, but it’s my hope that with clustering becoming a reality, they will see the value in doing things like the rest of the Latin Rite Catholic churches in the area do.
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Some would argue that standing is legitimzed by longstanding practice as a “local custom”.
 
chicago said:
Some would argue that standing is legitimzed by longstanding practice as a “local custom”.
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It was a “local custom” because the religious order that ran the parish took extreme liberties with the mass. Our current pastor has changed some things, i.e., we say the creed now, but the kneeling hasn’t changed.
 
kage_ar said:
The GIRM does add “except when prevented on occasion by reasons of health, lack of space, the large number of people present, or some other good reason.”

Maybe, just maybe, the Priest in question has some other good reason? .
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The Priest isn’t supposed to be kneeling at all at that point, so if he has a good reason or not is irrelevant.

The decision on if one is prevented by ill health, space or other good reason resides at the individual.

For example, a priest cannot order someone to kneel because the priest believes that the person is not ill enough, or that the person has enough space. The person themselves decides.

Likewise, the priest cannot, by order, instruct someone to stand when they themselves do not discern ill health, lack of space or other good reason.
 
VociMike said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicago
Some would argue that standing is legitimzed by longstanding practice as a “local custom”.

Which according to Canon Law would take a period of 30 years.
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Would this be valid for an imposed posture. It seems this has not developed naturally—but people have been manipulated thru various methods to abandon our traditional postures.
 
Walking_Home said:
Would this be valid for an imposed posture. It seems this has not developed naturally—but people have been manipulated thru various methods to abandon our traditional postures.
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You’re right - nothing organic about the current standing mania.
 
What’s the deal with kneeling anyway. Why have so many people picked this battle? What are their reasons?

Kendy
 
I can understand why you are upset, but you must be realistic and investigate your options.

I doubt anything anyone could say would convince this pastor that the congregation must kneel. You could ask his reason—it may help you to understand his instruction, or maybe not.

You could write or phone the diocese, but that would probably label you as a disobedient troublemaker, even in another parish where they do kneel.

I would suggest you speak to your pastor, but if you cannot follow his instruction it might be better to change to a Parish where you are more comfortable. If this is not possible either kneel quietly in the back or stand with the rest of the congregation. Remember he is in charge, and does feel that he is right and the bishop will probably support him and his reason for the standing instruction.

Lux
 
Kendy said:
I go to mass every morning where everyone stands during the consecration. I always kneel. recently, I asked if I could be a lector one day a week. At first, the pastor said yes, but a week later, he said, if I wanted to read, I would have to set a good example by standing like everyone else. When I said, I would rather not read. I was accused of wanting to be holier than the parish.

I am very sad. 😦
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I can’t remember when it is appropriate to kneel according to the missal, but if it turns out the priest is in error, I would email the Bishop and ask him for clarification.
 
SuscipeMeDomine said:
Something my pastor mentioned one day at Mass is that the Mass is the community at prayer, and part of that is that our postures should be as a community. If one person does things “their way” while the rest of the congregation does something else, they are setting themselves apart and disrupting the sense of community. And he mentioned that it takes humility to go along with the rest of the church rather than having the Mass be done your way.

I sympathize with those who want to kneel when everyone else stands. If it’s honestly done out of piety, then perhaps it’s best to continue. But I think it’s necessary to question whether it’s done out of pride. Is there a feeling that there’s something wrong with everyone else and you’ll show them how it ought to be done? Have you honestly considered humbling yourself to go along with everyone else rather than making yourself an example? Do you, perhaps, feel a little more holy than those other people who don’t kneel with you?
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The keyword is “community of prayer.” Throughout the entire world the Catholic community corresponds to the set format for Mass. To stand during Consecration is a deviation from that "
community."

Sounds like he is running a kind of serfdom. He goes against the standards of the Mass.
 
Joan_M said:
If this is a Catholic Church of the Latin Rite, where we are required to kneel (in the United States and in a number of other countries) from after the Sanctus until after the Great Amen, and the priest wants everyone to stand instead, then he is being disobedient to the Church.

I would have responded to the priest that standing when the Church requires kneeling is not being a good example and I would rather obey the Church than a disobedient priest.
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Amen!! In my less charitable moments I might say to the pastor, "Oh, I’m sorry! I thought this was a Roman Catholic parish, one that is obedient to the Pope!
 
Lux_et_Tenebrae said:
I can understand why you are upset, but you must be realistic and investigate your options.

I doubt anything anyone could say would convince this pastor that the congregation must kneel. You could ask his reason—it may help you to understand his instruction, or maybe not.

You could write or phone the diocese, but that would probably label you as a disobedient troublemaker, even in another parish where they do kneel.

I would suggest you speak to your pastor, but if you cannot follow his instruction it might be better to change to a Parish where you are more comfortable. If this is not possible either kneel quietly in the back or stand with the rest of the congregation. Remember he is in charge, and does feel that he is right and the bishop will probably support him and his reason for the standing instruction.

Lux
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Well —you know what happens to a lemming who follows a “community” of lemmings whose leader has taken a wrong turn–

They end up falling off the edge of the cliff.
 
Kendy said:
I go to mass every morning where everyone stands during the consecration. I always kneel. recently, I asked if I could be a lector one day a week. At first, the pastor said yes, but a week later, he said, if I wanted to read, I would have to set a good example by standing like everyone else. When I said, I would rather not read. I was accused of wanting to be holier than the parish.

I am very sad. 😦
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So… why can’t you just stand? You’d get to read and there is nothing wrong with standing with the rest of the community
 
Podo2005 said:
So… why can’t you just stand? You’d get to read and there is nothing wrong with standing with the rest of the community
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For starters—neither the priest and/or “community” get to dictate posture.
 
Kendy,

I’m dealing with a kneeling issue myself. Have you seen my thread, “The Kneeling Saga Continues”?

I kneel while the rest of the congregation stands. We have no kneelers, even though the parish is over 100 years old. The kneelers were removed about 10 years ago, well before I joined the parish.

My pastor - our only priest - has not said a word to me about it. In fact, he’s permitted me to be an usher and I’m a member of the parish council, newly elected. So he either doesn’t care about “kneeling vs. standing”, or he’s happy that I’m kneeling and is hoping it will catch on. Of course, if that were the case, he should just instruct the congregation to kneel, although the lack of kneelers may be stopping him.

Persevere. Kneeling is the right posture; authorities higher than your priest have determined so.

I bet we’d all be kneeling if Jesus were really present there in the church…OH WAIT, HE IS!:crossrc:
 
Kendy, are you just speaking od daily Mass? Not sure based upon the OP.

Is this prohibition on kneeling only during the daily masses or does this lack of kneeling occur during the Sunday Masses as well?

I ask this because daily masses may have a slightly different make up with unique conditions. Several years ago, while I was in a Masters in Pastoral Ministry Program, I was instructed to stand and not to kneel during our Mass.

This was our Sunday Mass [Saturday Vigil] as we were in class from Friday afternoon through Sunday afternoon. Saturday afternoon between acedemic casses we had our Formation componant and Mass. Being a small community gathered to celebrate the Eucharist, the formation director [priest] spoke wit me about my kneeling…not that it was not the norm, both of us knew that. But we had a couple of members who were unable to kneel dou to health/mobility reasons. The common and unifying nature was more important than the “letter of the law”. We were a community united in prayer and being one in posture and practice. Needless to say I conformed myself and was obedient to his instruction. I was in the program for three years.

It could be that at the daily mass, there are enough elderly/disabled parishioners [as a percentage of those present]that the priest feels that common posture is the pastoral stand that unifies those in attedace. This may be true if ‘standing’ had been a common practice before the reforms of fthe last GIRM.

Just a thought
 
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