Church pews emptying because

  • Thread starter Thread starter alessandro
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
richardols,

And…if you would read my messages clearly (especially my the last message addressed to you), you will see that I do not accept false Protestant theology. Again, we are saved by Grace (a free gift) and our response must be faith that works. We cannot have merely faith and expect to be justified before God, nor can we merely have works and expect to be justified before God…it takes both, yet works is the natural extension of our love for God…that IS Catholic theology.

Abraham did his famous good work because he had faith.
 
richardols,

Actually, I was not using the word “liberal,” I was merely explaining that it is not used as a political word in the context of faith.
 
40.png
TPJCatholic:
it is not used as a political word in the context of faith.
Click to expand...
Orthodox and heterodox are the operative terms in the context of faith IMO. Our faith cannot be interpreted “conservatively” or “liberally.” It is there to be believed and accepted as taught by the Church as an entirety. Was Fr. Feeney a conservative Catholic because he believed in an un-nuanced “no salvation outside the Church” and was Hans Kung liberal because of his views? I’d say both were heterodox, period.
 
richardols,

Fine, use words as you will. I think “liberal Catholic” stands for a certain type of person. If you do not like that term, don’t use it. No big deal either way.
 
richrdols,

BTW, if someone asked me how I would desribe myself, I would say that I am a “faithful Catholic,” I would not use the words orthodox, or heterodox to desribe my faith. I feel the word “faithful” implies obedience, and in today’s world obedience is very much lacking.
 
fix said:
%between%Lucifer, The First Liberal
Click to expand...

Your associating those of us who hold some liberal views with Satan is wholly uncharitable and I wonder how seriously you take your Catholicism when it comes to other Catholics who do not believe the same as you.

I will no longer respond to your posts.

I would, however, for the sake of others who are not reactionaries, note that in the 19th and 20th centuries, the Catholic Church was transformed from a passive accomplice of authoritarian regimes to a powerful advocate of the principles of democratic liberalism and of human rights reform. No longer the steadfast opponent of political liberalism, the Church is a vital institutional advocate for progressive social change, promoting a broad vision of political, economic, and cultural rights. Read Leo XII, Pius XI, Pius XII, John XXII, and John Paul II.
 
ricardols,

but…the church is NOT liberal in its theology–never has been.
 
40.png
TPJCatholic:
ricardols,the church is NOT liberal in its theology–never has been.
Click to expand...
Never has been conservative either. It’s always demanded orthodoxy from the faithful. The liberal Kungites and conservative "Feeneyites are both heterodox.
 
40.png
Richardols:
Your associating those of us who hold some liberal views with Satan is wholly uncharitable and I wonder how seriously you take your Catholicism when it comes to other Catholics who do not believe the same as you.

I will no longer respond to your posts.

I would, however, for the sake of others who are not reactionaries, note that in the 19th and 20th centuries, the Catholic Church was transformed from a passive accomplice of authoritarian regimes to a powerful advocate of the principles of democratic liberalism and of human rights reform. No longer the steadfast opponent of political liberalism, the Church is a vital institutional advocate for progressive social change, promoting a broad vision of political, economic, and cultural rights. Read Leo XII, Pius XI, Pius XII, John XXII, and John Paul II.
Click to expand...
Don’t cry. I was not necessarily referring to you. You asked about heterodox, orthodox, liberal, conservative. My original point was that liberals, meaning heterodox, try to diminsh the teachings on the moral law and up play social work. You brought up the rest. I was clarifying my use of the word liberal.

BTW, use of the word reactionary is typical of communists.
 
While many understand liberalism as a freedom for certain political equality and civil rights, more fundamentally liberalism is a freedom from the moral law and the teaching authority of the Church. One cannot speak of “Catholic liberals” without contradiction, or at the very least, equivocation. Liberalism, like socialism and Communism, has been condemned by Pope after Pope in the social encyclicals. If we are tempted to minimize the evils of this error, we would do well to remind ourselves that Pope Leo XIII presents Lucifer to us as the original liberal.
Click to expand...
 
richardols,

IMO, “faithful” and “orthodox” are essentially the same thing. I agree that the Church has always expected orthodoxy (or faithfulness), yet in the United States there are many millions of Catholics who do not accept that we are called to be orthodox or faithful.
 
40.png
fix:
Don’t cry.

I was not necessarily referring to you.

use of the word reactionary is typical of communists.
Click to expand...
Just can’t keep from using insult against other Catholics, can you?
 
40.png
Richardols:
Just can’t keep from using insult against other Catholics, can you?
Click to expand...
Necessarily was used becuase I do not know if you are hetrodox or not. I used the word liberal to intend heterodox. That did not necessarily intend you, unless you are heterodox.

You used the word reactionary in a derogatory way.

Don’t cry because you said you would not reply to my posts, which is fine by me, but please expect a remark when such hastily chosen decisions are made.
 
40.png
TPJCatholic:
IMO, “faithful” and “orthodox” are essentially the same thing.
Click to expand...
I agree.
I agree that the Church has always expected orthodoxy (or faithfulness), yet in the United States there are many millions of Catholics who do not accept that we are called to be orthodox or faithful.
Click to expand...
I agree again. Look at the people who believe “seers” who have messages from the Blessed Virgin on screen doors or who think that the Novus Ordo Mass is Protestant on one hand, and those who believe that divorce is acceptable for Catholics on the other hand. “Millions of Catholics” is right.
 
40.png
TPJCatholic:
richardols,

I agree! 🙂

wow…look at us…agreeing and all…
Click to expand...
Why not? You say “tomayto,” I say “tomahto,” but we’re still both orthodox Catholics, faithful to John Paul II and the Magisterium. 🙂
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top