A
- Status
C
cjforJesus
Guest
I believe the sex abuse scandal had more to do with homosexual pederasty and
the Kinsey report which sexualized children.It has nothing to do with celibacy.
S
SAVINGRACE
Guest
"Ms Arndt’s comments were prompted by the release of a report from the Catholic Church’s Truth, Justice and Healing Council which has been coordinating its response to the royal commission into child sexual abuse.
The report breaks new ground for the church with its finding that the vow of celibacy may have contributed to acts of sex abuse carried out by its clergymen.
“It’s obviously a very frustrating situation for many people and it’s caused a lot of problems within the Catholic Church,” Ms Arndt said.
"I think there are many, many Catholic priests who deal with this problem extremely well and they anticipate this is going to be the situation they’re in and they cope with that very well and that’s the vast majority.
“We’re only talking a minority, a minority who really struggle with this.”
Ongoing training recommended for priests
It is believed the report is the first official acknowledgement of a link between celibacy and sexual abuse by the church anywhere in the world.
However it stops well short of recommending the church scrap the vow of celibacy expected of its priests, with the chief executive of the Truth, Justice and Healing Council, Francis Sullivan, wary of anything that would “turn the church on its head”.
Instead the report recommended “ongoing training and development, including psycho-sexual development” for priests and other religious figures.
There was no detail in the report about what that should constitute."
abc.net.au/news/2014-12-12/sex-therapist-doubts-churchs-training-for-celibate-priests/5964034
The report breaks new ground for the church with its finding that the vow of celibacy may have contributed to acts of sex abuse carried out by its clergymen.
“It’s obviously a very frustrating situation for many people and it’s caused a lot of problems within the Catholic Church,” Ms Arndt said.
"I think there are many, many Catholic priests who deal with this problem extremely well and they anticipate this is going to be the situation they’re in and they cope with that very well and that’s the vast majority.
“We’re only talking a minority, a minority who really struggle with this.”
Ongoing training recommended for priests
It is believed the report is the first official acknowledgement of a link between celibacy and sexual abuse by the church anywhere in the world.
However it stops well short of recommending the church scrap the vow of celibacy expected of its priests, with the chief executive of the Truth, Justice and Healing Council, Francis Sullivan, wary of anything that would “turn the church on its head”.
Instead the report recommended “ongoing training and development, including psycho-sexual development” for priests and other religious figures.
There was no detail in the report about what that should constitute."
abc.net.au/news/2014-12-12/sex-therapist-doubts-churchs-training-for-celibate-priests/5964034
T
Tomdstone
Guest
But would a homosexual male want to marry a woman? Perhaps he might, but it seems less likely than for a heterosexual male.
C
cjforJesus
Guest
Perhaps you misunderstood.The question seemed to be linking the sex abuse scandal to celibacy when there is no connection. The majority of cases were young pubescent boys which makes it more likely related to homosexual pederasty.
L
Lion_IRC
Guest
I heard a (live) interview with Francis Sullivan - church spokesperson on matters relating to this issue - and the whole tenor of the interview was that…the Church is finally realizing priestly vows of celibacy somehow cause pedophilia
And I’m afraid Mr Sullivan didn’t exactly ‘smackdown’ the interviewer’s snide and condescending generalizations against the Catholic Church.
I’m getting sick of Francis Sullivan’s ongoing mea culpa presented as if ordinary parishioners are the ones who owe an apology to victims, the parents of victims, the relatives of victims, the police, the courts, the secular mass media, the government, Wall Street…
No Mr Francis!!! I am NOT ashamed of my church!
No Mr Francis!!! I am NOT ashamed of my clergy.
No Mr Francis!!! I am NOT begging forgiveness for someone ELSE’S putrid godlessness.
And no Mr Francis, you cannot be a child rapist and a catholic priest at the same time!
…but you could perhaps be a closet atheist LIAR abusing the trust of honest and naive people.
And I’m afraid Mr Sullivan didn’t exactly ‘smackdown’ the interviewer’s snide and condescending generalizations against the Catholic Church.
I’m getting sick of Francis Sullivan’s ongoing mea culpa presented as if ordinary parishioners are the ones who owe an apology to victims, the parents of victims, the relatives of victims, the police, the courts, the secular mass media, the government, Wall Street…
No Mr Francis!!! I am NOT ashamed of my church!
No Mr Francis!!! I am NOT ashamed of my clergy.
No Mr Francis!!! I am NOT begging forgiveness for someone ELSE’S putrid godlessness.
And no Mr Francis, you cannot be a child rapist and a catholic priest at the same time!
…but you could perhaps be a closet atheist LIAR abusing the trust of honest and naive people.
S
SAVINGRACE
Guest
FORGOT THE REST OF THE ARTICLE. 
"Ms Arndt is also concerned that the focus on sexual abuse is causing other forms of abuse to be overlooked.
“I just think as a society we are obsessed by sexual abuse. If you look at some of the reports that have been coming through on abuse in institutions, [there is] horrendous physical abuse of children, horrendous emotional abuse and that doesn’t seem to matter,” she said.
“The only thing that matters [to people] is if a child gets touched in a sexual way, and I don’t get that. I don’t get why we’re so distorting what are the real risks to children and it’s something to do with our inability as a society to deal with matters sexual.”
But Ms Arndt said she was not denying there was a problem.
“I’m not saying there isn’t a problem and there are real issues of concern with regard to abuse within the Catholic Church. I’m not denying that for one minute.”
“I think it’s really important we look carefully at that, but we are actually totally distorting the real risk to children in terms of sexual abuse because most abuse takes place in the family, not in institutions.”
“Children are far more at risk form family situations and particularly from the growing risk of strangers being involved in the families where children are being raised.”
“Mum’s boyfriend, partners of single mums - that is the new and ever-growing risk for children that is never discussed.”
"Ms Arndt is also concerned that the focus on sexual abuse is causing other forms of abuse to be overlooked.
“I just think as a society we are obsessed by sexual abuse. If you look at some of the reports that have been coming through on abuse in institutions, [there is] horrendous physical abuse of children, horrendous emotional abuse and that doesn’t seem to matter,” she said.
“The only thing that matters [to people] is if a child gets touched in a sexual way, and I don’t get that. I don’t get why we’re so distorting what are the real risks to children and it’s something to do with our inability as a society to deal with matters sexual.”
But Ms Arndt said she was not denying there was a problem.
“I’m not saying there isn’t a problem and there are real issues of concern with regard to abuse within the Catholic Church. I’m not denying that for one minute.”
“I think it’s really important we look carefully at that, but we are actually totally distorting the real risk to children in terms of sexual abuse because most abuse takes place in the family, not in institutions.”
“Children are far more at risk form family situations and particularly from the growing risk of strangers being involved in the families where children are being raised.”
“Mum’s boyfriend, partners of single mums - that is the new and ever-growing risk for children that is never discussed.”
A
_Abyssinia
Guest
Here is a link to the report:
tjhcouncil.org.au/media/89932/TJHC-Activity-Statement_FINAL-02-web-Medium.pdf
tjhcouncil.org.au/media/89932/TJHC-Activity-Statement_FINAL-02-web-Medium.pdf
D
dmar198
Guest
I think these two sentences are problematic: The report also proposes reform to the way complaints are handled. [snip]] “The starting position should be to believe the survivor and work to assist in establishing the allegation rather than trying to defeat it,” it said. I think we should presume that all parties are innocent until proven guilty. For the person alleging that he or she was abused, I think that means presuming that they believe what they are saying unless it is proven that they are lying. For the priest, I think that means presuming that the priest didn’t abuse unless it is proven that he did. I don’t think we should just presume that everything someone says is automatically true, especially when it damages the name and credibility of someone else.
F
FollowChrist34
Guest
I don’t know what the Kinsey report had to do with it, but, yes, celibacy is not the problem here. I do believe this is another one of those verboten subjects in the Church…dares not to speak its name.
L
Lion_IRC
Guest
If celibacy was part of the problem, we would expect there to be a greater statistical incidence of pedophiles (hiding) in the celibate priesthood relative to other non-celibate vocations or the clergy of other denominations who take no such vows. The stats show that this is NOT the case.
Last time I checked, Boy Scout leaders don’t take vows of celibacy.
Last time I checked, Boy Scout leaders don’t take vows of celibacy.
A
_Abyssinia
Guest
I haven’t read the report so I am not sure what evidence they think there is that celibacy was at least part of the problem in some cases. The report in the case is from the Australian Church, but in the case of the Catholic Church in America, check this out:
jknirp.com/jenkins2.htm
newsweek.com/priests-commit-no-more-abuse-other-males-70625
If celibacy large scale among the Catholic Priesthood contributed to pedophilia or ebophelia then there would be a higher rate of abuse among Catholic Priests than other clergy who are not celibate, or Catholic clergy compared to the non clergy population, but where is that evidence? I am not trying to downplay or disregard the Australian report, it is possible perhaps that celibacy was an issue in some cases.
F
FollowChrist34
Guest
Yes, I think it is more that sex offenders use the celibate male-only priesthood as a cover, base of operations if you will.
S
Seraphim73
Guest
Are there any statistics that show a higher incidence of abuse among Catholic clergy compared to non-Catholic? If so maybe there is something to this. If not then I would think not.
L
Lion_IRC
Guest
S
SAVINGRACE
Guest
One line in the 40-page document read: “Obligatory celibacy may also have contributed to abuse in some circumstances”.
Mr Sullivan said the fact that such screening and education was needed did not mean that celibacy was, of itself, a problem.
“Many people in the world, either by choice or by circumstance, will have celibate lives - that’s just how life is,” he said.
The extraordinary mention of celibacy in relation to child abuse runs against the position taken by the Catholic church previously.
While former Sydney Archbishop George Pell told a parliamentary inquiry in 2013 that celibacy “might be a factor is come cases” of abuse by priests, the Archbishop of Melbourne Denis Hart has defended the vow, telling the royal commission this year that celibacy was “very worthwhile” and “a very high ideal”.
Queensland University of Technology researcher Jodi Death, who has carried out extensive investigations into child sexual abuse in Christian churches, said celibacy is often raised as an issue that needs to be addressed in the Catholic church.
And, Dr Death (yes that is her official title) said, evidence shows a higher incidence of abuse in the Catholic Church compared to other denominations where clergy are allowed to marry.
However, Dr Death said it was not clear why that discrepancy existed, and factors such as a higher reporting rate among Catholic victims and the greater role the Catholic church has played in supporting needy children could not be discounted.
Dr Death said celibacy was just a part of a bigger problem with the clerical power structure of the church.
“The problem of celibacy in the Catholic church is it puts priests in an elite category,” she said.
“They are set apart because of the celibacy that’s required of them and this gives them the authority to exercise power.”
It would be more useful to give more power to the congregations of churches and external investigators, Dr Death said.
“No major organisation can be trusted to deal with its own corruption,” she said.
Mr Sullivan said the fact that such screening and education was needed did not mean that celibacy was, of itself, a problem.
“Many people in the world, either by choice or by circumstance, will have celibate lives - that’s just how life is,” he said.
The extraordinary mention of celibacy in relation to child abuse runs against the position taken by the Catholic church previously.
While former Sydney Archbishop George Pell told a parliamentary inquiry in 2013 that celibacy “might be a factor is come cases” of abuse by priests, the Archbishop of Melbourne Denis Hart has defended the vow, telling the royal commission this year that celibacy was “very worthwhile” and “a very high ideal”.
Queensland University of Technology researcher Jodi Death, who has carried out extensive investigations into child sexual abuse in Christian churches, said celibacy is often raised as an issue that needs to be addressed in the Catholic church.
And, Dr Death (yes that is her official title) said, evidence shows a higher incidence of abuse in the Catholic Church compared to other denominations where clergy are allowed to marry.
However, Dr Death said it was not clear why that discrepancy existed, and factors such as a higher reporting rate among Catholic victims and the greater role the Catholic church has played in supporting needy children could not be discounted.
Dr Death said celibacy was just a part of a bigger problem with the clerical power structure of the church.
“The problem of celibacy in the Catholic church is it puts priests in an elite category,” she said.
“They are set apart because of the celibacy that’s required of them and this gives them the authority to exercise power.”
It would be more useful to give more power to the congregations of churches and external investigators, Dr Death said.
“No major organisation can be trusted to deal with its own corruption,” she said.
T
Tomdstone
Guest
Eastern Orthodox priests can be married before ordination, and it seems to work OK for them.
F
FollowChrist34
Guest
I don’t have specific statistics, but as I recall, the rate of abuse for Catholic clergy is actually lower than in other religious or secular organizations. Unfortunately I don’t have the data at hand. Maybe someone can find it. But I do think it’s undeniable that abuse has occurred in the Church, including pedophile rings. And I also believe in the larger so called gay lobby, which I suspect played a role in protecting the abusers. I think it is somewhat naïve to look the other way on all that. Again, I DON’T see any evidence that celibacy is the issue here at all. It is common knowledge that married and sexually active people commit as many transgressions along these lines as those who are celibate.
S
Seraphim73
Guest
Yeah the report just says that “obligatory celibacy may also have contributed to abuse in some circumstances”, but then doesn’t explain how or why they came to that conclusion. They just simply make an assertion. It’s always been my impression that the incidence of abuse is no higher among Catholic clergy but that the practice in some cases of attempting transfer or otherwise cover for the perpetrators was the biggest issue.
- Status