Church says legislators who voted decriminalization are excommunicated

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Elizium23

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Church says legislators who voted decriminalization are excommunicated

[News story from Uruguay is in Spanish. Machine translation follows.]
The Bishop Heriberto Bodeant, secretary of the Bishops’ Conference, told The Observer that the legislators who voted on Wednesday for the decriminalization of abortion deviate from the beliefs of the Catholic Church, so they are excommunicated. "automatic excommunication for anyone who is collaborates in performing an abortion directly, and direct is that this act specifically do. (…) If a Catholic vote (a law) with a clear intention that you think that the church is wrong with that , separates himself from the communion of the church, "said Bodeant.
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Inego_de_Loyola said:
Was this atrocity passed?
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Yes.
The bill effectively legalizes abortion in the first trimester, permits abortion through 14 weeks of pregnancy in cases of rape and allows later-term abortions when a woman’s health is at risk.
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The legislation requires a woman to explain her desire to have an abortion to a panel of at least three people, including a gynecologist, social worker and mental health professional, who must discuss abortion-related health risks and alternatives including adoption. After meeting with the panel, a woman must then reflect for five days before finally opting to have an abortion.
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nytimes.com/2012/10/18/world/americas/uruguay-senate-approves-first-trimester-abortions.html

The bill passed the House last month, and the president has announced that he supports it. Without his veto, it is expected to become law in November. If he signs it, then it will become law even quicker.
 
It’s too bad we don’t have a Cardinal brave enough to do something like this in North America.
😦
 
october_baby said:
It’s too bad we don’t have a Cardinal brave enough to do something like this in North America.
😦
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At least he is standing up. The Counter-Cultural-Revolution begins here. Though the real litmus test is if the legislators are denied communion. 🤷

And what about the voters who elected them?:confused:
Elizium23 said:
Church says legislators who voted decriminalization are excommunicated

[News story from Uruguay is in Spanish. Machine translation follows.]
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mab23 said:
abortion falls under Murder so yes Murder is a criminal act
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From the OP’s article:

***The Bishop Heriberto Bodeant, secretary of the Bishops’ Conference, told The Observer that the legislators who voted on Wednesday for the decriminalization of abortion deviate from the beliefs of the Catholic Church, so they are excommunicated. * ** "automatic excommunication for anyone who is collaborates in performing an abortion directly, and direct is that this act specifically do. (…) If a Catholic vote (a law) with a clear intention that you think that the church is wrong with that , separates himself from the communion of the church, "said Bodeant. *

Please reference an RCC teaching that holds that abortion must be treated the same as the criminal act of murder. IIRC, very, very few pro-life supporters go so far as to say that women who have abortions should be charged with murder.
  • Emphasis always mine unless otherwise indicated.
 
kimmielittle said:
EVANGELIUM VITAE
  1. Abortion and euthanasia are thus crimes which no human law can claim to legitimize.
vatican.va/holy_father/jo…-vitae_en.html
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There are many acts that the RCC would also regard as moral “crimes”, but for which they would never attempt to prohibit through legal sanctions. Is it the RCC’s position that abortion not only be not legally available, but that it also be a judicially sanctioned criminal act? If it is, what criminal act should women be charged with for having an abortion?
 
cornbread_r2 said:
There are many acts that the RCC would also regard as moral “crimes”, but for which they would never attempt to prohibit through legal sanctions. Is it the RCC’s position that abortion not only be not legally available, but that it also be a judicially sanctioned criminal act? If it is, what criminal act should women be charged with for having an abortion?
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murder
 
This sends the message that has to be sent. The legislators who voted for legalisation have voted for barbarism
 
kimmielittle said:
EVANGELIUM VITAE
  1. Abortion and euthanasia are thus crimes which no human law can claim to legitimize.
vatican.va/holy_father/jo…-vitae_en.html
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True - but decriminalization is NOT the same thing as legitimation. Decriminalization can simply be the choice not to make something subject to criminal penalties. A technical distinction, but a real one. Thus one may say no law can make a wrong right…but, that does not mean one must impose criminal penalties on every wrong. Even in the USA Bishop Tobin of Providence (who is no abortion shrinking violet), a while back, when asked what penalties should be imposed for abortion begged off on that issue.

So, simply removing criminal penalties- or deleting a prior law that made something criminal - in and of itself, is not legitimation…i.e., making it proper, right or good. It is simply not making a bad act a matter for the criminal justice system. That is, it is possibly only a civil decision as to what is not appropriate within the criminal justice system. That may be a wrong decision, but it is not necessarily legitimation. Too often in this day people seem to think criminalization is the answer to every wrong - and that is usually the wrong answer IMHO.

Frankly, I believe the prior criminalization of abortion is what led directly to it being declared a right - legitimation in this society. The prior criminalization did little to stop abortion and had the unintended consequence of leading the Supreme Court and a large number of people to believing it is proper and right - and part of the constitution which it now is. We’d do better to emphasize the horror of it and persuade society to NOT approve it on a societal level - and get out of the criminal justice system solves it all mentality. That is, get buy-in that it’s wrong, but not criminalize it as that generates a reaction that is counterproductive - as we have seen.

All that being said, I’m not sure exactly what took place beyond decriminalization in this instance.
 
johnnykins said:
and that is why criminalization simply is the wrong answer - it won’t work and is counter-productive. It’s why abortion is now a right.
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It’s why abortion is now a right to murder.finish the sentence.
 
cornbread_r2 said:
Please reference an RCC teaching that holds that abortion must be treated the same as the criminal act of murder.
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It doesn’t exist…at least in the form that anything says the criminal penalties imposed for abortion must be the same as the criminal penalties imposed for murder of a child or adult. The Catechism is also suitably vague on what exactly must be done within the criminal justice system…if anything.
 
april32010 said:
It’s why abortion is now a right to murder.finish the sentence.
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exactly - the criminalization of abortion has led to it being declared a right. That doesn’t make it right…but it is now legitimate in the USA. So it is both legal and declared a right - the law of unintended consequences is never fun.

How much better if it were simply not a criminal act but it were socially unacceptable? Then maybe we could start to get our arms around the problem - and get people to think and stop before they do it - and not spout off platitudes that accomplish little beyond generating push-back.
 
cornbread_r2 said:
There are many acts that the RCC would also regard as moral “crimes”, but for which they would never attempt to prohibit through legal sanctions.
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Nice try! 🙂

Abortion is not a “moral crime” - It is an “intrinsic evil”.
Is it the RCC’s position that abortion not only be not legally available,
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Did you bother to read what I posted? I think it is pretty plain.
EVANGELIUM VITAE
  1. Abortion and euthanasia are thus crimes which **no human law **can claim to legitimize.
    vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/encyclicals/documents/hf_jp-ii_enc_25031995_evangelium-vitae_en.html
🤷🤷
but that it also be a judicially sanctioned criminal act?
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Nice try! But I don’t believe your logic or ability to reason, is that flawed. Catholic Teaching says abortion is an intrinsic evil - that mans law can not legitimize. What law of the land ] would the purposeful taking of innocent life - then fall under?

Questions: Do you think it’s an admiral stance to purposefully use flawed logic, in an attempt to justify the killing - of the most innocent - of lives? And to do that killing as a “social convenience”? Do you believe that a person can aid and abet, another, in a commission of an Intrinsic evil? Do you believe knowingly making excuses defending ] another, aids and abets , to help propagate a crime?

To you, Is purposefully targeting an innocent and then killing them - an intrinsic evil?
THAT is the question - that no matter how much flawed logic one uses…it comes down to. AND there is no escaping it!
 
Contrary to popular myth at this Forum - the Supreme Court has declared that there is a right to an abortion under the US Constitution. People may think they made a mistake, but until changed it is a right under the US Constitution.

I also do not believe the prior criminalization of abortion did much of anything to stop abortion…the personal views of the great majority of people and societal disapprobation did much to prevent abortion. The criminal justice aspects were simply unavailing or counterproductive in that they led to people seeking butchers - which is exactly what led to the Supreme Court. Society changed and it’s now a right. The criminal justice system was simply a bad way to deal with the issue as we now know. Sort of like prohibition to deal with alcohol use and abuse - it doesn’t work and in fact has pernicious results and effects.
 
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