Church subsidy reform signals Polish revolution

[Dale_M]

A revolution is under way in Poland as the government moves to cut large subsidies for Poland’s powerful Catholic Church and give taxpayers more choice in funding it.

The rise of a new anti-clerical party is symptomatic of growing pressure to reduce the traditionally strong ties between Church and State as more liberal influences flood in from western Europe.

According to various sources, the Catholic Church receives between 300 and 350 million euros ($398-464 million) a year in state subsidies, and the move by the centrist government of Prime Minister Donald Tusk affects less than 10 percent of this sum.

It is enough however to cause alarm and indignation in the Catholic hierarchy, which fears it is the thin end of the wedge.

news.yahoo.com/church-subsidy-reform-signals-polish-revolution-111801726.html;ylt=Ar1ZwbmBJ8duKPQQwjwxHf8ZscB;_ylu=X3oDMTQzNjNoMTJ2BG1pdANUb3BTdG9yeSBVU1NGIFJlbGlnaW9uU1NGBHBrZwMxMTcyNWE5My1mMGVmLTMzNTYtOGRjMy1hZTZjYTQ2Y2E2NTYEcG9zAzEEc2VjA3RvcF9zdG9yeQR2ZXIDMTBmNTc1ODAtN2E1Yi0xMWUxLTk4ZmUtZWM0NzBmOTAzZjI3;_ylg=X3oDMTFrM25vcXFyBGludGwDdXMEbGFuZwNlbi11cwRwc3RhaWQDBHBzdGNhdAMEcHQDc2VjdGlvbnMEdGVzdAM-;_ylv=3

 

[King_Lazy]

The whole point of the subsidy scheme was as compensation for property that was confiscated by the Polish State during Communist rule. With biased language such as “powerful Catholic Church” (what power, exactly?), and talking about how the funding is only “ostensibly” a form a compensation and quotes from a former Jesuit dissenter that is talking about how the Church is “terrified” and that it still wants people to approach it “on their knees,” it is clear where the author’s sympathies lie, and it’s not with the Church. And it is clear where the government’s sympathies lie too, so the hierarchy is right to be concerned.

Quite often, the Church prospers amid injustice and persecution, although with the militant secularism in Europe, this has not been the case, but let’s pray that in this case, things will be different.

 

[Stylteralmaldo]

The whole point of the subsidy scheme was as compensation for property that was confiscated by the Polish State during Communist rule…

At what point is the Church justly compensated for their confiscations?

Reporting biases aside, I wonder if the Church subsidies are still warranted. I don’t know about the circumstances one way or the other to have a set opinion on this.

 

[King_Lazy]

At what point is the Church justly compensated for their confiscations?

Reporting biases aside, I wonder if the Church subsidies are still warranted. I don’t know about the circumstances one way or the other to have a set opinion on this.

When what has been stolen has been returned. As far as I am aware, this has not yet happened, as it would have been too expensive for the State to return all it had confiscated immediately, but I may be wrong.

 

[manualman]

There can only be a financial subsidy from the government as long as the people will it. Try to sustain it longer than that and you only commit anti-evangelization.

So the question is, is this a leftist minority making noise, or is it a reflection of the people’s will? Poland is not the catholic mecca we’d like to think it is. Their national birthrate is just as fatally low as the rest of the Eurozone. To me, that’s an important spiritual health barometer.

 

[King_Lazy]

I agree. I think the media are universally hostile to Christianity all over Europe, so it wouldn’t be difficult for a media campaign to incline people’s will to oppose the subsidy, quite simply by using biased language as was used in the article. If I weren’t strongly Catholic or if I had not read a little from other sources, I might have been inclined to think that the withdrawal of the subsidy is the rational thing to do. I’m not entirely sure what the case is in Poland as regard to popular support for the measure, and, regardless of what public opinion may be, I don’t think the Church will resist the measure other than voice its disapproval, because active resistance would likely add further fuel to the fire and would be exploited by the enemies of the Church to further turn public opinion against it.

 

[unafraid]

I agree. I think the media are universally hostile to Christianity all over Europe, so it wouldn’t be difficult for a media campaign to incline people’s will to oppose the subsidy, quite simply by using biased language as was used in the article. If I weren’t strongly Catholic or if I had not read a little from other sources, I might have been inclined to think that the withdrawal of the subsidy is the rational thing to do. I’m not entirely sure what the case is in Poland as regard to popular support for the measure, and, regardless of what public opinion may be, I don’t think the Church will resist the measure other than voice its disapproval, because active resistance would likely add further fuel to the fire and would be exploited by the enemies of the Church to further turn public opinion against it.

You have found the black heart of these so-called secular “revolutions”, when you point to an entity that is commonly described as “media”, but which has, in actuality, morphed into a global inculcating propaganda appendage for the moral relativistic agenda (and worse); which in all instances works tirelessly to stamp out religion entirely, much in the same way that Fascist and Communist propagandists fullfilled that same function in the 20th century.

When Pope Benedict XI warns us all to be vigilant against what he defined as the new , “Dictatorship of the Media”, we should heed our prophetic pontifs words. The “Media” in the present age is a completely new organism; one which seems to act openly, and actively, against religion and God Himself. Antichrist would surely find an easily won pulpit in our modern media if he were to emerge today, as they already seem to be doing his bidding, day after day, in the twenty-four seven drone of mass communications. Frightening.

 

[King_Lazy]

You have found the black heart of these so-called secular “revolutions”, when you point to an entity that is commonly described as “media”, but which has, in actuality, morphed into a global inculcating propaganda appendage for the moral relativistic agenda (and worse); which in all instances works tirelessly to stamp out religion entirely, much in the same way that Fascist and Communist propagandists fullfilled that same function in the 20th century.

Certainly. It is even more insidious these days because the Fascist and Communist propaganda of old was quite obvious and easy to disregard by a large proportion of the population. Nowadays, the propaganda is tailored according to advances in psychology and marketing, so that the will of the people can be effectively moulded to match the will of the owners of the media outlets. And despite surface disagreements and the identification of some news outlets as being “centre-right” or “centre-left,” that will is broadly the same.

As a result of selective reporting and bias, we have seen something unprecedented - public opinion has shifted in the same direction at the same time in dozens of countries simultaneously. People are not entirely mindless, but these simultaneous shifts in public opinion are a result of the information that people have been presented. And indeed, people have the sense of making their own mind up, but they do so on the information they have been given, and necessarily, the opinions of the majority are not going to diverge far from what a reasonable response to the information presented would be.

It is an illusion to claim that we in the West live in true democracies, as the “will of the people” is constantly and consistently moulded through sociotechnical manipulation, and the information that public opinion is allowed to mull upon is presented selectively, aimed at eliciting particular responses to make predetermined decisions seem rational.

When Pope Benedict XI warns us all to be vigilant against what he defined as the new , “Dictatorship of the Media”, we should heed our prophetic pontifs words. The “Media” in the present age is a completely new organism; one which seems to act openly, and actively, against religion and God Himself. Antichrist would surely find an easily won pulpit in our modern media if he were to emerge today, as they already seem to be doing his bidding, day after day, in the twenty-four seven drone of mass communications. Frightening.

This is indeed the case. The ownership of the major media outlets is largely in the hands of multinational corporations, who all seem to espouse broadly similar ideologies. And even independent news outlets are largely run by people who have to some degree been subjected to the pervasive opinion-forming influence of the mainstream.

Once again, we see that democracy is an illusion when the will of the people is determined by CEOs of international companies and those with money. A concerted media effort by several large corporations is all that is necessary to vote an inconvenient government out and to vote a more convenient and malleable one in. The media is the mouthpiece of the rich, and though their efforts may suffer short-term defeats every now and then, they shape the long-term direction of society through the media.

They may lose an occasional battle, but the war seems already won, and most people are none the wiser, as we largely continue to believe in the myth of pluralism and objectivity in the media.