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emmar
Guest
Jo, I agree. When we did NFP we only had 2-4 days per month. NFP is a harmful thing for our marriage. Not everyone has such an easy time with it. I think it’s great if you are able to have more that 7 days per month…
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happymommy
Guest
Well said!
I try to think of couples, that due to health or injury are unable to be with their spouse at all! I wouldn’t love my husband any less if I could never have sex with him again and our sex life is not what makes our marriage work! It’s a beautiful part of it and a gift, but we would make it without it!
If not being able to have sex every day is ruining your marriage, then I think you have much deeper issues then just NFP.
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searching04
Guest
Another poster with an assumption, hence the poll. It is not a matter of sex every day; it is not just NFP. It is a matter of extremely limited sexual intimacy due to *church teachings and *NFP. And yes, it can indeed ruin marriages and relationships. Not because of a lack of sex, but because overall intimacy - emotional, spiritual, physical - is affected. Glad for you if it’s not the case, I really am, but that is quite obviously not the case for everyone.
Thinking of couples who cannot have sex because of inury or health is fine. It is not the same as couples who are fully capable of doing so, but are not allowed.
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JoArtist
Guest
I think it is hard for some to realize that NFP can have negative effects on marriage, but it is a reality. I am not trying to keep anyone from practicing it, I just think that some people disregard troubles it can cause.
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Em_in_FL
Guest
I really don’t understand… can you elaborate how abstinence (as in, using NFP and avoiding sexual intimacy during the fertile phases) and other “church teachings” on sexuality affects “overall intimacy - emotional, spiritual, physical”???
Specifically - what are the “issues” that you are referring to in the poll… please be specific.
I’m not asking a general question… but pertaining to your own marriage.
(anyone - not just searching04 - feel free to answer with your own specific details)
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Phemie
Guest
Yes, and yes, issues. In fact, no sex at all.
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_Jenn
Guest
In terms of your specific (i.e., where the man climaxes) question, then yes. We follow it, and have no issues.
However - we don’t use NFP, we don’t use anything at all. We also don’t follow it because the church says so - we do it because it’s what we prefer. So I’m not sure how that really impacts what you are looking for in your poll.
However - we don’t use NFP, we don’t use anything at all. We also don’t follow it because the church says so - we do it because it’s what we prefer. So I’m not sure how that really impacts what you are looking for in your poll.
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SusanneT
Guest
We have always followed the Church’s teaching on this and it didn’t really cause us much problem until we started to practise NFP a couple of years ago.
Since then things have become increasingly difficult due in large part (I’m convinced) to the fact that we cannot be sexualy intimate except on our few ‘safe’ days every cycle which has a major physical impact only husband and is emotionally very difficult for me.
We don’t dispute what the Church teaches and my husband obeys it completely but it is a real struggle and is having a serious impact on our marriage. in many ways I think this is a much bigger issue than birth control.
Since then things have become increasingly difficult due in large part (I’m convinced) to the fact that we cannot be sexualy intimate except on our few ‘safe’ days every cycle which has a major physical impact only husband and is emotionally very difficult for me.
We don’t dispute what the Church teaches and my husband obeys it completely but it is a real struggle and is having a serious impact on our marriage. in many ways I think this is a much bigger issue than birth control.
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happymommy
Guest
I don’t understand that either and would like to have them explain more.
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happymommy
Guest
The church didn’t tell you that you weren’t allowed to have sex. That is up to you to decide. Can’t blame the church for that.
Due to many reasons there was a time that it would not be wise for us to have another child. Due to nursing, I wasn’t able to read my signs well at all. We had sex 2 times over the course of a year! Didn’t ruin anything, did not affect intimacy on any level. We are that close, that in-tune with each other that we were able to do it. Did we miss each other, yes, but it didn’t drive us apart. If anything it brought us closer together because we filled that time other ways.
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searching04
Guest
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Em_in_FL
Guest
Technically the church says to “be fruitful and multiply” and to “openly and lovingly accept children within marriage.”
If YOU decide, by your own free will, because you have prudent/just/serious reasons to avoid conception… then YOU can decide to avoid sex.
But sex is a Sacramental gift… it can’t be morally altered.
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happymommy
Guest
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searching04
Guest
How can there be emotional closeness and intimacy without the physical (which is not all sex)? How can there be physical closenss and intimacy with the emotional? How can a couple grow spiritually without emotional closeness and connections?
Over time, one affects the other. When there is little to no sexual intimacy with your spouse (and I’m not just talking being horny and wanting to “do it”), separation grows; a lack of emotional closeness begins. Communication lessens and becomes the daily “how was your day?” Someone mentioned in a post in this thread (which I can’t find now) that eventually even the hand holding and snuggles become a “why bother?”
There have always been other issues which affected our realtionship, especially dealing with a troubled teenager in the past, jobs, money, etc. We had always gotten thru everything with lots of communication, and praying. Life for me became/has become giving up what I wanted to do in a career to keep the family in one place, and taking jobs which mean nothing, but have a paycheck; we disagreed on raising teenagers which created vast disagreements for us for the first time in our marriage, and I eventually just learned to keep my mouth shut as much as possible because I always seemed to be the only one standing ground; my wife does not like dealing with confrontation. Over time, I have felt I do not matter, with little to no self-esteem and self-worth. Things in that area are a bit better - I’ve simply accepted it and roll with the flow each day. Try to find things that I like doing to add a sense of accomplishment to the day. But I feel no real connection to my wife, my family, nothing. I’m not depressed; not happy, no unhappy. I just exist each day. I’ve tried prayer, tried hormones, nothing and no answers.
Where does sex and the church fit into this? Even with all that went on, I could at least turn to my wife for comfort (not just physical release). We had each other to hold, and support each other emotionally. We have been using NFP for most our 27 years of marraige. However, in between phases we were there for each other if we needed or wanted - yes, sex to climax without intercourse. We did not know about church teachings, never, ever thought we were wrong or using each other, or disordered and all that the church drops on us. A friend told us she had learned about CCC (they were doing the same as us obviously), and that was it - cold turkey. So the one person I was able to turn to for comfort was no longer available. Snuggling and all that went by the wayside because it eventually became too much, because there were more times than not that I could not physically be with my wife sexually. Closeness fades, communication fades, prayer life fades, overall intimacy fades. There is hardly ever any urge or desire, though my mind tells me there should be; I get mad at that and it hurts. Even when we can be intimate, there is little emotional connection. So the one person I should be able to turn to, I was not able to; over time, that takes its toll on everything.
My wife kind of knows why we are where we are, mostly not. There is no use talking about it because there is nothing to be done. The church dictates what it dictates. I know it hurts her I am not as affectionate as we used to be, and you could hardly ever separate us before. It is terribly hard to pretend to be close when I feel no true connection.
Is it all just sex? No. But there has been and is now more of “why bother” in the “trying to be affectionate” department because I see no possibility of change or things getting better. So the emotional is tied to the spiritual is tied to the physical is tied to…
Line I heard one time was guys need sex for love; women need love for sex. Fits very well.
Sex is how men express their love to their wives and it makes them feel like a man. Take that option away and yes, life becomes just going thru the motions each day. Not because of a lack of sex, but because of not being able to express that physically. And when that intimacy - intercourse - is limited to maybe once a month, what do you expect to happen to a relationship? How do you get that back? And now, or worse as the case may be, we have to look at being empty-nesters. My wife sees that as exciting and more time for us. Me, I worry about it exactly because I feel no real connection with my God-given wife.
It is not lost on me that there are more issues than sex; and it is not just that sex is easier to focus on. It is more than a disagreement with, it is not believing in, what is indeed a church teaching on sex that has a negative impact on a marriage, the one, last thing that should bring me close to my wife, and it is taken away in many measures. Don’t tell me as someone did in another post that the church does not tell us when we can have sex; it does indeed because it dictates NFP and no other sexual intimacy in between, no matter what a couple feels or believes or the damage done.
Someone explain that to me, please.
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searching04
Guest
No one who is struggling or disagrees or does not believe with all of their hearts that the church teachings are wrong or do not fit reality, is saying that sex is not sacrimental.
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Em_in_FL
Guest
From my perspective… your marital issues -* outside of sex* - are FAR greater than the issue of sex alone.
You’re right… this line REALLY sums things up…
The fundamental LOVE isn’t there. Period.
For NFP to work… that LOVE has to be there… that’s the fundamental foundation.
I work hard at NFP (study like crazy, improve my fertility health, etc) in order to OPEN OUR OPPORTUNITIES to be together* as often as possible*. I do this because I love and adore my husband and I desire to be with him because that fundamental foundation of LOVE is already there.
If my marriage were constantly in tension - and the fundamental foundation of LOVE wasn’t there… my motivation to work hard at NFP would be nonexistant… which is probably exactly where your wife is. She feels *used *by the sex because that foundation of love isn’t there first. Why work hard at NFP to be together if it isn’t doing me any good??
Yeah - so there’s your female perspective…
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JoArtist
Guest
I am a female, but before we started NFP we had no major problems… we love each other very much, but now it seems like we are both always depressed and starved for affection. It is hard for us to have any physical touch in fertile stages, due to our sex drives. Sex has lost all spontaneity… and romance. It is something that we squeeze in as many times as we can in the very limited days available.From my perspective… your marital issues -* outside of sex* - are FAR greater than the issue of sex alone.
You’re right… this line REALLY sums things up…
The fundamental LOVE isn’t there. Period.
For NFP to work… that LOVE has to be there… that’s the fundamental foundation.
I work hard at NFP (study like crazy, improve my fertility health, etc) in order to OPEN OUR OPPORTUNITIES to be together* as often as possible*. I do this because I love and adore my husband and I desire to be with him because that fundamental foundation of LOVE is already there.
If my marriage were constantly in tension - and the fundamental foundation of LOVE wasn’t there… my motivation to work hard at NFP would be nonexistant… which is probably exactly where your wife is. She feels *used *by the sex because that foundation of love isn’t there first. Why work hard at NFP to be together if it isn’t doing me any good??
Yeah - so there’s your female perspective…
Plus not everyone can do anything to improve fertility health. (like me… and yes this is backed up by doctors… I have issues that are passed down through genetics and cannot be treated) To pretend that NFP has no negative effects ever on a marriage is frankly naive.
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Em_in_FL
Guest
The problem is still not NFP… the problem is that you have just/serious/prudent reasons to avoid conception. Those reasons are hard to deal with. Sometimes they never go away. Those problems can, indeed, have negative effects on a marriage. I am not naive - I’ve experienced how these issues can weigh on a marriage.
NFP is a way of carrying the heavy cross of those issues, and *praying *through them… while still respecting the Sacramental nature of sex within marriage.
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Jennifer_J
Guest
I’m going to repeat something a very wise friend told me…NFP isn’t supposed to be easy. It’s a form of fasting. Fasting is never easy, because we are denying ourselves what we want. It’s how we approach that fasting that matters. Are we bitter and resentful that the Church ‘makes’ us fast or are we joyful that we have a way to honor God and offer our suffering for a greater good. I don’t discount couples struggle with NFP, because it can be hard, and it’s hard work. But it’s not like the Church came up with these ‘rules’ because they aren’t rules in a hard and fast sense. The Church sees sex as something so special an holy that is must be protected from improper use. Just as the Eucharist must be protected. We can’t use the consecrated host as a frisbee or chug down the consecrated wine nor would we use holy water for drinking or washing. We honor and protect holy things. Sex is sacramental (ie not a sacrament, but a sign of the sacrament) and it is more than just a physical release. It is part of the renewal of the sacrament of marriage.
Couples struggling with NFP must find ways to be intimate without sex. It can be a challenge, but it’s not impossible. Maybe the couple needs some help in kindling that level of intimacy without sex–through counseling and increased communication and treating the time they must abstain as courtship rather than a burden. Marriage is constant work, to just give up on each other is a shame. You have to work through the difficulties. Communicate and open up to each other. Pray together. Invite God in.
Couples struggling with NFP must find ways to be intimate without sex. It can be a challenge, but it’s not impossible. Maybe the couple needs some help in kindling that level of intimacy without sex–through counseling and increased communication and treating the time they must abstain as courtship rather than a burden. Marriage is constant work, to just give up on each other is a shame. You have to work through the difficulties. Communicate and open up to each other. Pray together. Invite God in.
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manualman
Guest
I hate polls, because they are always written in a way that pushes.
I strictly follow Church, teaching, but I have plenty of issues. None of my issues, however, are CAUSED by church teachings! There is no choice that fits me correctly, so I chose the first.
But I find it manipulative of you to require me to claim “no issues”. It insinuates pride and arrogance, and I assure you I have not all the much to be proud of.
Humans are sinful, inclined to sin. This means we ARE going to have issues. I have problems at times resisting telling little lies of convenience too, but you don’t see me railing against the church for making me waste time with pointlessly long winded explanations all the time. But for some reason, sex is different. People think their sex life should pose no issues for them and if the DO have problems, they must be somebody else’s fault. How about we own ALL of our own sinfulness, confess and offer it up?
One possibility people never seem to consider is that NFP neither destroys marriages, nor builds them up by itself. But NFP DOES act like a canary in a coal mine. It’s an early warning sign that something is WRONG with your marital intimacy if your marriage can’t tolerate abstinance on a fairly regular basis. Intimacy is still entirely possible during abstinance times. If you find that it is not for you, perhaps investigate why that is rather than blaming NFP. If the canary dies, you need to immediately move to a safer place in the coal mine, not just get mad at the canary!
(Wait, did I just compare marriage to a coal mine?
)
I strictly follow Church, teaching, but I have plenty of issues. None of my issues, however, are CAUSED by church teachings! There is no choice that fits me correctly, so I chose the first.
But I find it manipulative of you to require me to claim “no issues”. It insinuates pride and arrogance, and I assure you I have not all the much to be proud of.
Humans are sinful, inclined to sin. This means we ARE going to have issues. I have problems at times resisting telling little lies of convenience too, but you don’t see me railing against the church for making me waste time with pointlessly long winded explanations all the time. But for some reason, sex is different. People think their sex life should pose no issues for them and if the DO have problems, they must be somebody else’s fault. How about we own ALL of our own sinfulness, confess and offer it up?
One possibility people never seem to consider is that NFP neither destroys marriages, nor builds them up by itself. But NFP DOES act like a canary in a coal mine. It’s an early warning sign that something is WRONG with your marital intimacy if your marriage can’t tolerate abstinance on a fairly regular basis. Intimacy is still entirely possible during abstinance times. If you find that it is not for you, perhaps investigate why that is rather than blaming NFP. If the canary dies, you need to immediately move to a safer place in the coal mine, not just get mad at the canary!
(Wait, did I just compare marriage to a coal mine?
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