Church Teachings on Sex

[cemiller]

How can there be emotional closeness and intimacy without the physical (which is not all sex)? How can there be physical closenss and intimacy with the emotional? How can a couple grow spiritually without emotional closeness and connections?

Over time, one affects the other. When there is little to no sexual intimacy with your spouse (and I’m not just talking being horny and wanting to “do it”), separation grows; a lack of emotional closeness begins. Communication lessens and becomes the daily “how was your day?” Someone mentioned in a post in this thread (which I can’t find now) that eventually even the hand holding and snuggles become a “why bother?”

skipped to save room

Is it all just sex? No. But there has been and is now more of “why bother” in the “trying to be affectionate” department because I see no possibility of change or things getting better. So the emotional is tied to the spiritual is tied to the physical is tied to…

Line I heard one time was guys need sex for love; women need love for sex. Fits very well.

Sex is how men express their love to their wives and it makes them feel like a man. Take that option away and yes, life becomes just going thru the motions each day. Not because of a lack of sex, but because of not being able to express that physically. And when that intimacy - intercourse - is limited to maybe once a month, what do you expect to happen to a relationship? How do you get that back? And now, or worse as the case may be, we have to look at being empty-nesters. My wife sees that as exciting and more time for us. Me, I worry about it exactly because I feel no real connection with my God-given wife.

It is not lost on me that there are more issues than sex; and it is not just that sex is easier to focus on. It is more than a disagreement with, it is not believing in, what is indeed a church teaching on sex that has a negative impact on a marriage, the one, last thing that should bring me close to my wife, and it is taken away in many measures. Don’t tell me as someone did in another post that the church does not tell us when we can have sex; it does indeed because it dictates NFP and no other sexual intimacy in between, no matter what a couple feels or believes or the damage done.

Someone explain that to me, please.

I am truly sorry you are having problems in your marriage. I am a man, and sex is certainly not the only way I show love to my wife. It’s not even the main way I show my love. I would strongly suggest that you seek a good and faithful marriage counselor to work with. To stop touching or being intimate with your wife just because you can’t have sex with her as often as you like is a big problem.
Due to travel time, work hours, and kids I don’t get to have sex with my wife near as often as I like, but we still find time to watch a movie together and hold each other on the couch knowing full well that there will be no time for sex after the kids get to sleep. I will stop occasionally on the long drive home and pick wildflowers from the side of the road. I let her sleep in while I watch the kids on the weekends. Maybe you try something like “The Love Dare” where you build intimacy through other activities. You even state that when you do get to have sex with your wife then there’s no emotional connection to it or her. If NFP and lack of sex was really the problem don’t you think that you would feel a large burst of affection and satisfaction when you do get to?

 

[cemiller]

One possibility people never seem to consider is that NFP neither destroys marriages, nor builds them up by itself. But NFP DOES act like a canary in a coal mine. It’s an early warning sign that something is WRONG with your marital intimacy if your marriage can’t tolerate abstinance on a fairly regular basis. Intimacy is still entirely possible during abstinance times. If you find that it is not for you, perhaps investigate why that is rather than blaming NFP. If the canary dies, you need to immediately move to a safer place in the coal mine, not just get mad at the canary!
(Wait, did I just compare marriage to a coal mine? )

It would be the only coal mine I would be happy to be trapped in

 

[JoArtist]

I am truly sorry you are having problems in your marriage. I am a man, and sex is certainly not the only way I show love to my wife. It’s not even the main way I show my love. I would strongly suggest that you seek a good and faithful marriage counselor to work with. To stop touching or being intimate with your wife just because you can’t have sex with her as often as you like is a big problem.
Due to travel time, work hours, and kids I don’t get to have sex with my wife near as often as I like, but we still find time to watch a movie together and hold each other on the couch knowing full well that there will be no time for sex after the kids get to sleep. I will stop occasionally on the long drive home and pick wildflowers from the side of the road. I let her sleep in while I watch the kids on the weekends. Maybe you try something like “The Love Dare” where you build intimacy through other activities. You even state that when you do get to have sex with your wife then there’s no emotional connection to it or her. If NFP and lack of sex was really the problem don’t you think that you would feel a large burst of affection and satisfaction when you do get to?

Well what I do not think that some people understand is that people express love in many ways. Try reading the book, 5 Languages of Love. NFP is especially hard for those who physical touch is their primary love language. It is hard for me to show these physical signs of love during fertile times because it makes it way more difficult to abstain. So it is harder for some than others… when you aren’t being spoken to enough in your love language it is much harder to feel loved and to express love in your language when it can cause you and your spouse to stumble.

 

[cemiller]

Well what I do not think that some people understand is that people express love in many ways. Try reading the book, 5 Languages of Love. NFP is especially hard for those who physical touch is their primary love language. It is hard for me to show these physical signs of love during fertile times because it makes it way more difficult to abstain. So it is harder for some than others… when you aren’t being spoken to enough in your love language it is much harder to feel loved and to express love in your language when it can cause you and your spouse to stumble.

I never said that it’s not hard. All marital problems are… I’ve never heard of that book, but I would disagree with any statement that physical intimacy (sex in particular) would be the only way that some people express love. I’m not hear to attack or judge people for having problems, I just want to point out that it would seem that the poster’s problems go beyond just not being able to have sex all that often. NFP doesn’t seem to be the problem here. I am not a marriage counselor, so you can’t take my statement or leave it, but I would be willing to bet that most counselor’s would agree…

 

[searching04]

I am a female, but before we started NFP we had no major problems… we love each other very much, but now it seems like we are both always depressed and starved for affection. It is hard for us to have any physical touch in fertile stages, due to our sex drives. Sex has lost all spontaneity… and romance. It is something that we squeeze in as many times as we can in the very limited days available.

Exactly.

Plus not everyone can do anything to improve fertility health. (like me… and yes this is backed up by doctors… I have issues that are passed down through genetics and cannot be treated) To pretend that NFP has no negative effects ever on a marriage is frankly naive.

 

[searching04]

I’m going to repeat something a very wise friend told me…NFP isn’t supposed to be easy. It’s a form of fasting. Fasting is never easy, because we are denying ourselves what we want. It’s how we approach that fasting that matters. Are we bitter and resentful that the Church ‘makes’ us fast or are we joyful that we have a way to honor God and offer our suffering for a greater good. I don’t discount couples struggle with NFP, because it can be hard, and it’s hard work. But it’s not like the Church came up with these ‘rules’ because they aren’t rules in a hard and fast sense. The Church sees sex as something so special an holy that is must be protected from improper use.

The last sentence is exactly the problem. The church has pre-emptively assumed that all couples will abuse the gift of sex. Why? Not all couples would or do so. The church has decided for couples what is in their hearts. And they are hard and fast rules or else the church would say “you should try not to do these things xyz so the sacredness of sex is preserved and the gift not abused.”

Just as the Eucharist must be protected. We can’t use the consecrated host as a frisbee or chug down the consecrated wine nor would we use holy water for drinking or washing. We honor and protect holy things. Sex is sacramental (ie not a sacrament, but a sign of the sacrament) and it is more than just a physical release. It is part of the renewal of the sacrament of marriage.

Couples struggling with NFP must find ways to be intimate without sex. It can be a challenge, but it’s not impossible. Maybe the couple needs some help in kindling that level of intimacy without sex–through counseling and increased communication and treating the time they must abstain as courtship rather than a burden. Marriage is constant work, to just give up on each other is a shame. You have to work through the difficulties. Communicate and open up to each other. Pray together. Invite God in.

 

[JoArtist]

I never said that it’s not hard. All marital problems are… I’ve never heard of that book, but I would disagree with any statement that physical intimacy (sex in particular) would be the only way that some people express love. I’m not hear to attack or judge people for having problems, I just want to point out that it would seem that the poster’s problems go beyond just not being able to have sex all that often. NFP doesn’t seem to be the problem here. I am not a marriage counselor, so you can’t take my statement or leave it, but I would be willing to bet that most counselor’s would agree…

I never said it was. The book is written by a marriage counselor who has been counseling for over 40 years. Physical touch, more than just sex… is one of 5 main love languages. My family is very physically affectionate and that is the main way I show affection. When people are unable to receive love in the love language they understand best (for me it is physical touch and it is hard to do other forms of this due to a greater temptation to have sex in fertile times) it is much harder to feel loved. There are 4 other love languages: gift giving (whether it be wild flowers, notes, ect) ( this is the lowest on my love language totem pole), words of affirmation, quality time, and acts of service. Although those other things make me feel loved, none of them have the same affect as physical touch. Everyone is different on these. Honestly, I feel drained… I can only receive small doses of the way I feel most loved.

I feel like you misunderstood what I said.

I think that you probably have a different main love language… Maybe gift giving. That may be why you think that the level of hardship is due to other factors. Just because it doesn’t affect you as much, DOES NOT mean it doesn’t affect others to a greater extent, or that they have other marital problems.

 

[searching04]

I hate polls, because they are always written in a way that pushes.

I strictly follow Church, teaching, but I have plenty of issues. None of my issues, however, are CAUSED by church teachings! There is no choice that fits me correctly, so I chose the first.

But I find it manipulative of you to require me to claim “no issues”. It insinuates pride and arrogance, and I assure you I have not all the much to be proud of.

Hey, there were only so many buttons to use!

Humans are sinful, inclined to sin. This means we ARE going to have issues. I have problems at times resisting telling little lies of convenience too, but you don’t see me railing against the church for making me waste time with pointlessly long winded explanations all the time. But for some reason, sex is different. People think their sex life should pose no issues for them and if the DO have problems, they must be somebody else’s fault. How about we own ALL of our own sinfulness, confess and offer it up?

One possibility people never seem to consider is that NFP neither destroys marriages, nor builds them up by itself. But NFP DOES act like a canary in a coal mine. It’s an early warning sign that something is WRONG with your marital intimacy if your marriage can’t tolerate abstinance on a fairly regular basis. Intimacy is still entirely possible during abstinance times. If you find that it is not for you, perhaps investigate why that is rather than blaming NFP. If the canary dies, you need to immediately move to a safer place in the coal mine, not just get mad at the canary!
(Wait, did I just compare marriage to a coal mine? )

Again, it is the combination of church teachings and NFP, not the latter alone.

 

[searching04]

I am truly sorry you are having problems in your marriage. I am a man, and sex is certainly not the only way I show love to my wife. It’s not even the main way I show my love. I would strongly suggest that you seek a good and faithful marriage counselor to work with. To stop touching or being intimate with your wife just because you can’t have sex with her as often as you like is a big problem.

This is why these forums are only so-so. Never said that the issue, which I explained as best I could are all intricately intertwined, is only a lack of sex. Said very specifically it is not “sex”, it is that the lack of sexual intimacy has indeed contributed to and I believe is a main culprit in the lack of overall intimacy, which resulted over time. One leads to the other; a lack of one leads to the lack of another. It obviously is not the case for everyone, but it does not in any way lesson the facts or reality for those of us dealing with it in this way.,

 Due to travel time, work hours, and kids I don't get to have sex with my wife near as often as I like, but we still find time to watch a movie together and hold each other on the couch knowing full well that there will be no time for sex after the kids get to sleep. I will stop occasionally on the long drive home and pick wildflowers from the side of the road. I let her sleep in while I watch the kids on the weekends. Maybe you try something like "The Love Dare" where you build intimacy through other activities. You even state that when you do get to have sex with your wife then there's no emotional connection to it or her. If NFP and lack of sex was really the problem don't you think that you would feel a large burst of affection and satisfaction when you do get to?

I do the kitchen, clean the house, wash the clothes, do everything I can and then some because I should help my wife and it is just as much my responsibility as a husband. Besides, she works as well and often is taking care of her mom. Not doing all of that to get sex.

 

[SusanneT]

Well what I do not think that some people understand is that people express love in many ways. Try reading the book, 5 Languages of Love. NFP is especially hard for those who physical touch is their primary love language. It is hard for me to show these physical signs of love during fertile times because it makes it way more difficult to abstain. So it is harder for some than others… when you aren’t being spoken to enough in your love language it is much harder to feel loved and to express love in your language when it can cause you and your spouse to stumble.

Can I say if a couple have agreed to abstain from intercourse for NFP or other reasons, then it seems to me the real problem is that they can often then find themselves having to avoid physical intimacy in general. Even that which is not overtly sexual or intended to be sexually stimulating, because they are afraid that if the husband becomes sexually aroused he will either find it difficult to abstain from further sexual activity (which he cannot complete in intercourse) or even that he might involuntarily ejaculate as a consequence of that intimacy.

As a result the range of physical contact and general intimacy between spouses is gradually reduced, with a real risk of damage to their wider relationship.

 

[searching04]

I never said that it’s not hard. All marital problems are… I’ve never heard of that book, but I would disagree with any statement that physical intimacy (sex in particular) would be the only way that some people express love. I’m not hear to attack or judge people for having problems, I just want to point out that it would seem that the poster’s problems go beyond just not being able to have sex all that often. NFP doesn’t seem to be the problem here. I am not a marriage counselor, so you can’t take my statement or leave it, but I would be willing to bet that most counselor’s would agree…

I think I was pretty open about all of the things that had gone on and contributed to the “environment” in our marriage. Specifically said I know they contributed. The drastic change in the one last connection I had with my wife - sexual intimacy - in the midst of all else that was happening, pretty much ended. That set the rest in motion. Same as JoArtist, I believe, has mentioned - couldn’t/can’t touch or snuggle or be affectionate too much because it becomes to much when you cannot proceed to what you not only want, but desperately need, emotionally. So you do it less and less until it it becomes common not to, intentionally or not; it becomes a defense mechanism. And so overall intimacy suffers. And it is terribly difficult to reverse and reconnect.

NFP is only a piece of the puzzle.

 

[JoArtist]

Can I say if a couple have agreed to abstain from intercourse for NFP or other reasons, then it seems to me the real problem is that they can often then find themselves having to avoid physical intimacy in general. Even that which is not overtly sexual or intended to be sexually stimulating, because they are afraid that if the husband becomes sexually aroused he will either find it difficult to abstain from further sexual activity (which he cannot complete in intercourse) or even that he might involuntarily ejaculate as a consequence of that intimacy.

As a result the range of physical contact and general intimacy between spouses is gradually reduced, with a real risk of damage to their wider relationship.

It is very true. During fertile times it is hard to even hug, cuddle, kiss, ect. The problem is I miss physical intimacy in all levels and when I get a taste I want more. If I am to abstain, I must abstain from almost all physical contact to prevent falling. It is very difficult and I am tired of people saying that I have a troubled marriage due to some other reason when they know diddly squat about my marriage.

 

[maryjk]

It is very true. During fertile times it is hard to even hug, cuddle, kiss, ect. The problem is I miss physical intimacy in all levels and when I get a taste I want more. If I am to abstain, I must abstain from almost all physical contact to prevent falling. It is very difficult and I am tired of people saying that I have a troubled marriage due to some other reason when they know diddly squat about my marriage.

I don’t understand this. My husband and I are very physically affectionate. We hug, kiss, hold hands and cuddle on the couch. Last night, I fell asleep on his shoulder and woke up holding his hand. Today at lunch, we held hands and then kissed good bye when he left for work. The night before last, he was watching TV with his head in my lap.

Oh, and we are currently abstaining. Right now I am fertile and for medical reasons we need to not get pregnant.

I don’t know if this is a problem with your marriage or a problem somewhere else. But yes, it is difficult to understand why someone can’t kiss their spouse unless they can also have sex. And then blame it on Church teaching.

 

[EternalJade]

My family is most likely converting to catholicism. We totally agree with most of the church’s views, most are logical and scripturally sound. However the teaching that NFP is different than a barrier method is ridiculous, in our opinion. I definitely dont want to debate things but to our way of thinking it comes down to the same, and that separating unity and procreation happens either way, and God gave us the intelligence to separate the 2, unlike animals. I’m not looking for a rebuttal please, I’m only offering an insight behind my vote. So, I voted “most of the time” and we have no issues, unless you want to count not believing the teaching as an issue…We use the fertility awareness method of NFP, so we don’t always abstain during the fertile time but you would be surprised how often we do. You would probably be surprised at how often people abstain in general even if they always contracept.

 

[EternalJade]

Ok, it won’t let me vote in the poll but that would be my vote if I could.

 

[JoArtist]

I don’t understand this. My husband and I are very physically affectionate. We hug, kiss, hold hands and cuddle on the couch. Last night, I fell asleep on his shoulder and woke up holding his hand. Today at lunch, we held hands and then kissed good bye when he left for work. The night before last, he was watching TV with his head in my lap.

Oh, and we are currently abstaining. Right now I am fertile and for medical reasons we need to not get pregnant.

I don’t know if this is a problem with your marriage or a problem somewhere else. But yes, it is difficult to understand why someone can’t kiss their spouse unless they can also have sex. And then blame it on Church teaching.

I never said I can’t hug or kiss unless I can have sex. The issue here is being “starved” of sex for long periods of time so it makes it harder for us to show these affections because, well the longer we don’t have sex, the more easily we are aroused. I never blamed it on Church teaching either… I am saying that negative things can arise in a marriage due to the practice of NFP. We can only have sex 2-5 days a month due to my husbands work schedule. Sometimes he will be gone for over a month, then come home and we can’t have sex… It is hard for us especially for people with high sex drives like my husband and I. Just because it is not as hard for you DOES NOT mean there are greater troubles in our marriage. Everyone’s situation is different.

 

[searching04]

I never said I can’t hug or kiss unless I can have sex. The issue here is being “starved” of sex for long periods of time so it makes it harder for us to show these affections because, well the longer we don’t have sex, the more easily we are aroused. I never blamed it on Church teaching either… I am saying that negative things can arise in a marriage due to the practice of NFP. We can only have sex 2-5 days a month due to my husbands work schedule. Sometimes he will be gone for over a month, then come home and we can’t have sex… It is hard for us especially for people with high sex drives like my husband and I. Just because it is not as hard for you DOES NOT mean there are greater troubles in our marriage. Everyone’s situation is different.

Well said, very well said.

 

[maryjk]

I am a female, but before we started NFP we had no major problems…. we love each other very much, but now it seems like we are both always depressed and starved for affection. It is hard for us to have any physical touch in fertile stages, due to our sex drives. Sex has lost all spontaneity… and romance. It is something that we squeeze in as many times as we can in the very limited days available.

It is very true. During fertile times it is hard to even hug, cuddle, kiss, ect. The problem is I miss physical intimacy in all levels and when I get a taste I want more. ** If I am to abstain, I must abstain from almost all physical contact to prevent falling**. It is very difficult and I am tired of people saying that I have a troubled marriage due to some other reason when they know diddly squat about my marriage.

I never said I can’t hug or kiss unless I can have sex. The issue here is being “starved” of sex for long periods of time so it makes it harder for us to show these affections because, well the longer we don’t have sex, the more easily we are aroused. I never blamed it on Church teaching either… I am saying that negative things can arise in a marriage due to the practice of NFP. We can only have sex 2-5 days a month due to my husbands work schedule. Sometimes he will be gone for over a month, then come home and we can’t have sex… It is hard for us especially for people with high sex drives like my husband and I. Just because it is not as hard for you DOES NOT mean there are greater troubles in our marriage. Everyone’s situation is different.

Maybe its me, but when you said you didn’t have any major problems until you started using NFP, that made me think you are blaming NFP for your “major problems.” If not, what did you mean?

Same with “I am to abstain, I must abstain from almost all physical contact,” would mean to me that you can’t hug and kiss unless you can also have sex. If not, what did you mean?

 

[JoArtist]

Maybe its me, but when you said you didn’t have any major problems until you started using NFP, that made me think you are blaming NFP for your “major problems.” If not, what did you mean?

Same with “I am to abstain, I must abstain from almost all physical contact,” would mean to me that you can’t hug and kiss unless you can also have sex. If not, what did you mean?

For the first point, I am saying NFP has major consequences for my marriage, but I am not blaming the church because my situations in life such as my husbands job contribute to the issue as well. NFP is much harder to practice for those who aren’t in ideal or close to ideal situations where they get to see their spouse on a regular basis, and have no health problems leading to fewer days they are able to have sex.

I meant that it isn’t just that we can’t have sex that day that we can’t, it is the fact we can’t have sex for long periods of time other than the 2-5 days a month. When sex is that limited added to very strong sex drives, you are turned on way easier. So yes kisses and hugs can get me aroused when it has been a while… Henceforth lack of physical contact.

 

[manualman]

Well what I do not think that some people understand is that people express love in many ways. Try reading the book, 5 Languages of Love. NFP is especially hard for those who physical touch is their primary love language.

This is a great book by the way. It’s crucial to understand that the “golden rule” isn’t all you need in marriage. Sometimes doing for the other what you’d want done for you doesn’t translate at all. My wife purrs like a kitten when she gets little presents and tokens of affection. She’s hurt and bewildered when I tell her to stop buying all that junk that ends up in a pile on my dresser! Similarly, she doesn’t receive it as love at ALL when I sweat my heinie off vacuuming our her minivan, windexing all its windows and giving it a nice wax job! Hardly notices.

You do have to make sure you are expressing love to your beloved in a way that she can receive it. And that requires knowing her.

But don’t use your primary love language (physical touch) as an excuse for failing to develop virtue. Yes, she needs to adapt and use the times and opportunities you have to make you feel loved. But YOU need to make the effort to recognize the ways SHE expresses love for you and appreciate it. It’s a two way street. We got the book in our marriage prep class and really appreciate it. My own primary is touch as well (comes with the Y chromosome, I think) and my wife’s is not. It can be managed, but it’s work. Most of what is good in life is, right?