Church Teachings on Sex

[Nate13]

absolutely, i understand. it’s just the frequency, the inevitablity of the dog dying in your lifetime. i am still grieving over the loss of my dog, that was almost a year ago. before her, getting a new dog would help me get over the one who had just died, but even though my new dog is pretty similar, that last one was so special, she really was just like a child to me. i would probably not love a human child as much as i loved that dog. she was like my soulmate in canine form.

you have to understand this is going to strike some people the wrong way Some might mistake you to mean that if you had to choose between saving a babies life and your dog’s life you would choose the dog.

 

[happymommy]

absolutely, i understand. it’s just the frequency, the inevitablity of the dog dying in your lifetime. i am still grieving over the loss of my dog, that was almost a year ago. before her, getting a new dog would help me get over the one who had just died, but even though my new dog is pretty similar, that last one was so special, she really was just like a child to me. i would probably not love a human child as much as i loved that dog. she was like my soulmate in canine form.

We had our dog for 14 years! Had her before we had kids. I still grieve the loss of our child that I never got to meet, far more than the dog that just died this spring! She was a dog, I could go out today and replace her! You can’t replace a person.
If you are loving an animal more than you would love a person, then that is wrong! They are not meant to take the place of people in our lives!

 

[happymommy]

you have to understand this is going to strike some people the wrong way Some might mistake you to mean that if you had to choose between saving a babies life and your dog’s life you would choose the dog.

I think some people would save the dog over the child! It’s a messed up world we live in

 

[EternalJade]

You cannot compare the death of an animal to that of a person. No how, no way.

It is sad that pets don’t live as long as people but it only further underlines God’s design; that pets were not meant to be lifelong companions or family members.

Pets do not teach selflessness or patience and cannot enrich our lives the way that children do. I suppose you can’t miss what you don’t have but I must admit that I feel sorry for people, especially older people, who don’t have kids by choice. I simply cannot imagine my life without family. For example my grandmother has passed away and my grandfather is alive and is surrounded by all of us. I can’t imagine what he would be doing with himself now if he had chosen not to have kids.

 

[samiam1611]

you have to understand this is going to strike some people the wrong way Some might mistake you to mean that if you had to choose between saving a babies life and your dog’s life you would choose the dog.

oh whoops no i did not mean it that way. i just meant i loved my dog so much, it is hard for me to imagine loving someone any more than that. i don’t literally value my dog’s life over a human’s though.

 

[samiam1611]

actually i did kind of mean it that way…i wouldnt let someone else’s living child die to save my dog…i just meant that i loved my dog so much, it is hard for me to imagine loving anything more than that. there was just something about her I guess. I don’t literally value a dog’s life over a human’s.

 

[Nate13]

oh whoops no i did not mean it that way. i just meant i loved my dog so much, it is hard for me to imagine loving someone any more than that. i don’t literally value my dog’s life over a human’s though.

Thank you for clarifying

 

[onmyknees]

You haven;t seen enough cats then! No I didn;t have a Catholic wedding though I was married in a church. I could be misremembering them but I donlt think our vows including anything about being open to children.

The scripture verse from God in Genesis clearly tells the married to be fruitful and multipy.

Before I had kids I never was fond of other peoples children. I started babysitting at 12 yrs.old. I didn’t like having to deal with their snotty noses, whining, and some were just bratty kids.

However, I cannot tell you enough how different it is when you have your own kids.

You know how before you fall in love you don’t know what it would feel like to really be in love with someone, well having a child is like falling in love except for this love is even greater. You will not experience this kind of love if you never have them. Such a huge loss of one the greatest gift God has given to us, here on earth.

When I was in high school, my religion teacher was a priest and he told us that the greatest love a human being can have is for God and then the love for your child. I was so in love with my boyfriend at this time and I thought no way! I could never love anyone more than I love my boyfriend. We were promised to each other at time. We did marry( and still are) and when we had our first born I knew that this priest was so right.

Our beloved Welsh Corgi died last fall and we loved her so much, but it would not even come close to the love for our children. It was a great loss for our family but I cannot imagine the suffering of loosing a child. I think of Mary at the foot of the cross watching her son die.

 

[onmyknees]

You cannot compare the death of an animal to that of a person. No how, no way.

It is sad that pets don’t live as long as people but it only further underlines God’s design; that pets were not meant to be lifelong companions or family members.

Pets do not teach selflessness or patience and cannot enrich our lives the way that children do. I suppose you can’t miss what you don’t have but I must admit that I feel sorry for people, especially older people, who don’t have kids by choice. I simply cannot imagine my life without family. For example my grandmother has passed away and my grandfather is alive and is surrounded by all of us. I can’t imagine what he would be doing with himself now if he had chosen not to have kids.

 

[Nate13]

Originally Posted by EternalJade View Post
You cannot compare the death of an animal to that of a person. No how, no way.

It is sad that pets don’t live as long as people but it only further underlines God’s design; that pets were not meant to be lifelong companions or family members.

Pets do not teach selflessness or patience and cannot enrich our lives the way that children do. I suppose you can’t miss what you don’t have but I must admit that I feel sorry for people, especially older people, who don’t have kids by choice. I simply cannot imagine my life without family. For example my grandmother has passed away and my grandfather is alive and is surrounded by all of us. I can’t imagine what he would be doing with himself now if he had chosen not to have kids.

Here is my positive post for the day I agree with this statement of Eternal Jade’s completely Don’t expect any more of them though

 

[MarkInOregon]

.

Sex is how men express their love to their wives and it makes them feel like a man. Take that option away and yes, life becomes just going thru the motions each day. Not because of a lack of sex, but because of not being able to express that physically. And when that intimacy - intercourse - is limited to maybe once a month, what do you expect to happen to a relationship? How do you get that back? And now, or worse as the case may be, we have to look at being empty-nesters. My wife sees that as exciting and more time for us. Me, I worry about it exactly because I feel no real connection with my God-given wife.

Someone explain that to me, please.

I am sorry but I cannot explain it to you, nor lessen the pain you obviously feel. But I don’t think the problem is with Church teaching. Sure it would be nice if they had a different teaching but I say that for selfish reasons–for what I desire (not talking about anyone else just me).

When you say “sex is how men express their love to their wives and it makes them feel like a man” I am not sure I agree. I think this attitude is what we have been conditioned to by the society we live in and it is portrayed on television and in advertising and I think it sets up a false expectation and belief and causes great pain in our society.

Sex is not how I express my love for my wife or feel like a man. I express my love for her by trying to make her life easier. By doing laundry, by cooking, by doing dishes, by making her a mocha in the morning, by trying to keep the house clean, etc. This I think expresses my love for her. I am not sure “sex” does. I remember when we were much younger–my wife liked to just cuddle–but as a guy well I’d prefer it lead to more than cuddling–now if it did was I expressing my love for my wife? Or was I expressing my love for my wife by just cuddling with her? She’d like to sit up late and talk about the future our plans our hopes our fears–that’s where intimacy is developed.

The distinction I would make is that I need sex not to show my love for my wife but to feel loved by my wife–even though I know that’s crazy. I know she loves me by the things she will do for me. I guess feel you can be intimate and physically close without it having to necessarily end in intercourse or climax–though it takes work and retraining–as the images and messages society bombards us with daily work against what true intimacy is. Intimacy is not intercouse. Intercourse may be the ultimate expression of intimacy but it is not intimacy itself and there are many other expressions of intimacy.

I think you get it back by thinking about whats best for your wife and doing things for her–maybe things you’ve never done before–just because you love her. Love is not a feeling. Is intercourse the only way you can express your love physically? Can you not kiss and cuddle without it leading to intercourse? Believe me I know it’s difficult but it can be done. I wish I had a magic bullet to offer you, some great words of wisdom to take away your pain and sorrow but I don’t. I urge you to pray even if it seems like you are just going through the motions. Pray for that connection and do little things for your wife to express your love for her and maybe over time these will help you feel that connection. We must all pray for each other.

Prayers,
Mark

 

[MarkInOregon]

Well to be fair I guess maybe I am not 100% certain however I am mostly sure. But I guess when I think about having kids I just shudder the idea is like the absolute worst possible nightmare for me. I can;t think of one single small positive thing that would come from me having kids. As for my husband he is older then me in his 40’;s and I just donlt see him as having the energy and patience to deal with a bunch of kids running around. Not to mention that would put even more stress on him to provide which would not be fair to him I donlt think.

To be honest I can;t figure out what I would be missing out with kids that I couldn;t get from an animal. Really I am thinking about it really hard right now and canlt think of a single thing. So for myself personally I donlt think I am missing out on anything.

Someone to visit you and take care of you when you are old and your husband is no longer living–for one. Your animal can’t do that.

 

[Calliso]

The scripture verse from God in Genesis clearly tells the married to be fruitful and multipy.

Before I had kids I never was fond of other peoples children. I started babysitting at 12 yrs.old. I didn’t like having to deal with their snotty noses, whining, and some were just bratty kids.

However, I cannot tell you enough how different it is when you have your own kids.

You know how before you fall in love you don’t know what it would feel like to really be in love with someone, well having a child is like falling in love except for this love is even greater. You will not experience this kind of love if you never have them. Such a huge loss of one the greatest gift God has given to us, here on earth.

When I was in high school, my religion teacher was a priest and he told us that the greatest love a human being can have is for God and then the love for your child. I was so in love with my boyfriend at this time and I thought no way! I could never love anyone more than I love my boyfriend. We were promised to each other at time. We did marry( and still are) and when we had our first born I knew that this priest was so right.

Our beloved Welsh Corgi died last fall and we loved her so much, but it would not even come close to the love for our children. It was a great loss for our family but I cannot imagine the suffering of loosing a child. I think of Mary at the foot of the cross watching her son die.

I admit I have always have been taught that that verse was more a blessing then an actual command. I have heard it is different when you have your own kids. But that is the problem you have to have your own kids to find out if this is the case or not. And unfortunately some people do find that they just donlt enjoy kids their own or not! I do think though losing a child would be far far worse then losing a pet. But hey thats another reason for me not to have kid!

 

[Calliso]

Someone to visit you and take care of you when you are old and your husband is no longer living–for one. Your animal can’t do that.

And what happens if/when the kid/kids never visit never call? There are plenty of people in nursing homes with kids who haven;t spoken with them or seen them in monthes or even years. Me having kids would not guarentee that those kids would want anything to do with me or that they would actually take care of me in my old age.

 

[onmyknees]

I am sorry but I cannot explain it to you, nor lessen the pain you obviously feel. But I don’t think the problem is with Church teaching. Sure it would be nice if they had a different teaching but I say that for selfish reasons–for what I desire (not talking about anyone else just me).

When you say “sex is how men express their love to their wives and it makes them feel like a man” I am not sure I agree. I think this attitude is what we have been conditioned to by the society we live in and it is portrayed on television and in advertising and I think it sets up a false expectation and belief and causes great pain in our society.

Sex is not how I express my love for my wife or feel like a man. I express my love for her by trying to make her life easier. By doing laundry, by cooking, by doing dishes, by making her a mocha in the morning, by trying to keep the house clean, etc. This I think expresses my love for her. I am not sure “sex” does. I remember when we were much younger–my wife liked to just cuddle–but as a guy well I’d prefer it lead to more than cuddling–now if it did was I expressing my love for my wife? Or was I expressing my love for my wife by just cuddling with her? She’d like to sit up late and talk about the future our plans our hopes our fears–that’s where intimacy is developed.

The distinction I would make is that I need sex not to show my love for my wife but to feel loved by my wife–even though I know that’s crazy. I know she loves me by the things she will do for me. I guess feel you can be intimate and physically close without it having to necessarily end in intercourse or climax–though it takes work and retraining–as the images and messages society bombards us with daily work against what true intimacy is. Intimacy is not intercouse. Intercourse may be the ultimate expression of intimacy but it is not intimacy itself and there are many other expressions of intimacy.

I think you get it back by thinking about whats best for your wife and doing things for her–maybe things you’ve never done before–just because you love her. Love is not a feeling. Is intercourse the only way you can express your love physically? Can you not kiss and cuddle without it leading to intercourse? Believe me I know it’s difficult but it can be done. I wish I had a magic bullet to offer you, some great words of wisdom to take away your pain and sorrow but I don’t. I urge you to pray even if it seems like you are just going through the motions. Pray for that connection and do little things for your wife to express your love for her and maybe over time these will help you feel that connection. We must all pray for each other.

Prayers,
Mark

Yes, I think your got it right, Mark.

A wife expresses her love for her husband by having intimate sexual relations with him. A husband can express his love for his wife by all the things you mentioned above. IMHO most wives would want their husband to express his love for her by having the intimate conversations that will bring about a connection between them. They want to really know their husbands more intimately. Like best friends. It is difficult for some men to do this and it can be just as difficult for some women to want to have sexual relations without having the intimate conversations.

 

[Dan_Daly]

I follow the church teaching… we practice NFP, but it has caused numerous problems in our marriage. Due to my husbands job schedule in combination with NFP we can only have sex 2-5 times a month. Considering the fact both my husband and I have strong sex drives (If we had it our way we would have sex a couple times a day every day), it has caused enormous sexual frustration and general unsatisfaction. Not to mention that my cycle/hormones are not normal (doctors say that they can find no reason for it and it is probably genetic because most women in my family have the same issues.) Also I have always had depression issues, it has significantly increased the number of depression episodes that I have.

Please don’t condemn me for saying these things, I still follow church teachings, there are just numerous negative effects in my life. I just think people glorify NFP so much and act like it cannot cause relationship issues.

I just think people glorify NFP so much and act like it cannot cause relationship issues.

I agree wholeheartedly with that. NFP is very often pushed basically as Catholic Contraception. At pre-Cana classes lots of time is spent telling you:
A) How great it is and B) How to do it.

But very little time is spent on C) SHOULD YOU BE USING NFP?

NFP should only be used to avoid pregnancy for sufficiently grave reasons. Charting IS a pain, for lots of people. So what am I saying?

Certainly NOT to use contraception. It’s evil.

What I am saying is that unless there are sufficiently GRAVE reasons to try and avoid pregnancy, don’t worry about charting, don’t worry about temperature and mucus. Don’t worry about NFP one bit. Simply love your spouse and be open to life.

Pax.

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

There really should be two more poll options:
unmarried
celibate

Being gay I fall into the latter (and of course am chaste).

 

[searching04]

I am sorry but I cannot explain it to you, nor lessen the pain you obviously feel. But I don’t think the problem is with Church teaching. Sure it would be nice if they had a different teaching but I say that for selfish reasons–for what I desire (not talking about anyone else just me).

When you say “sex is how men express their love to their wives and it makes them feel like a man” I am not sure I agree. I think this attitude is what we have been conditioned to by the society we live in and it is portrayed on television and in advertising and I think it sets up a false expectation and belief and causes great pain in our society.

It is surely not the only way, but is it an important one. Maybe more for some than others, but it cannot be excluded. And it isn’t all TV and society.

Sex is not how I express my love for my wife or feel like a man. I express my love for her by trying to make her life easier. By doing laundry, by cooking, by doing dishes, by making her a mocha in the morning, by trying to keep the house clean, etc. This I think expresses my love for her. I am not sure “sex” does. I remember when we were much younger–my wife liked to just cuddle–but as a guy well I’d prefer it lead to more than cuddling–now if it did was I expressing my love for my wife? Or was I expressing my love for my wife by just cuddling with her? She’d like to sit up late and talk about the future our plans our hopes our fears–that’s where intimacy is developed.

I do those things all the time, always have. I like to. However, they do not replace the intimacy of sex with my wife.

The distinction I would make is that I need sex not to show my love for my wife but to feel loved by my wife–even though I know that’s crazy.

Not crazy at all. I need that to, and it hardly exists. That’s part of the problem. Intentionally or not, no matter what the church says or others say (even my wife), not being able to be intimate when we need to or even when the NFP phases is right, but time and kids don’t allow, simply makes me feel rejected, I guess. Over years of this going on, it has placed a huge strain and had a negative impact on our lives.

I know she loves me by the things she will do for me. I guess feel you can be intimate and physically close without it having to necessarily end in intercourse or climax–though it takes work and retraining–as the images and messages society bombards us with daily work against what true intimacy is.

It would be nice to snuggle and stuff. That is rare as well, mostly because is has become hard to do so; emotionally for me, I guess. It is something that has just happened over time. And she can’t take being snuggled in bed and falling asleep like that; most of the time she falls asleep on the sofa because she is more comfortable. I think again, over time (and someone else expressed this as well) that when there is little to no chance or opportunity that snuggling or cuddling or kissing will lead to anything, then over time it simply fades away. It becomes “why bother” as bad as that might sound. It is a defense mechanism. It is not because of the expectation of sex every time; it is because when there is really no possibility sex can happen at all because of NFP and church teachings, especially if we are in the mood, then snuggling and cuddling is too much. So you just don’t. My wife struggles because she wants more intimacy and snugggles and kisses; I struggle because the connection just isn’t there. None of which is helped by the fact we disagree on church teachings.

Add on top of all that that there is no real anticipation, there is no spontaneity; because of NFP and church teachings, sex is “well, the signs say it is time, and we better do it now or we miss out for the next month or so” and it becomes more of doing it to do it than any true intimacy.

I can hear the screams already that the church doesn’t tell us when we can have sex. Yes, it does, when you are restricted to NFP and church teachings.

Intimacy is not intercouse. Intercourse may be the ultimate expression of intimacy but it is not intimacy itself and there are many other expressions of intimacy.

You’re right; it may well be the ultimate expression. And when that ultimate expression is restricted severely, it has a severely negative impact. On some more than others, but just because the church and others here say it shouldn’t happen, or doesn’t happen to them, does not mean that it is not very, very real.

I think you get it back by thinking about whats best for your wife and doing things for her–maybe things you’ve never done before–just because you love her. Love is not a feeling. Is intercourse the only way you can express your love physically? Can you not kiss and cuddle without it leading to intercourse? Believe me I know it’s difficult but it can be done. I wish I had a magic bullet to offer you, some great words of wisdom to take away your pain and sorrow but I don’t. I urge you to pray even if it seems like you are just going through the motions. Pray for that connection and do little things for your wife to express your love for her and maybe over time these will help you feel that connection. We must all pray for each other.

Prayers,
Mark

 

[searching04]

Yes, I think your got it right, Mark.

A wife expresses her love for her husband by having intimate sexual relations with him. A husband can express his love for his wife by all the things you mentioned above. IMHO most wives would want their husband to express his love for her by having the intimate conversations that will bring about a connection between them. They want to really know their husbands more intimately. Like best friends. It is difficult for some men to do this and it can be just as difficult for some women to want to have sexual relations without having the intimate conversations.

Men need sex for love; woman need love for sex.

 

[Em_in_FL]

It is surely not the only way, but is it an important one. Maybe more for some than others, but it cannot be excluded. And it isn’t all TV and society.

…

I do those things all the time, always have. I like to. However, they do not replace the intimacy of sex with my wife.

…

Not crazy at all. I need that to, and it hardly exists. That’s part of the problem. Intentionally or not, no matter what the church says or others say (even my wife), not being able to be intimate when we need to or even when the NFP phases is right, but time and kids don’t allow, simply makes me feel rejected, I guess. Over years of this going on, it has placed a huge strain and had a negative impact on our lives.

…

It would be nice to snuggle and stuff. That is rare as well, mostly because is has become hard to do so; emotionally for me, I guess. It is something that has just happened over time. And she can’t take being snuggled in bed and falling asleep like that; most of the time she falls asleep on the sofa because she is more comfortable. I think again, over time (and someone else expressed this as well) that when there is little to no chance or opportunity that snuggling or cuddling or kissing will lead to anything, then over time it simply fades away. It becomes “why bother” as bad as that might sound. It is a defense mechanism. It is not because of the expectation of sex every time; it is because when there is really no possibility sex can happen at all because of NFP and church teachings, especially if we are in the mood, then snuggling and cuddling is too much. So you just don’t. My wife struggles because she wants more intimacy and snugggles and kisses; I struggle because the connection just isn’t there. None of which is helped by the fact we disagree on church teachings.

**Add on top of all that that there is no real anticipation, there is no spontaneity; because of NFP and church teachings, sex is “well, the signs say it is time, and we better do it now or we miss out for the next month or so” and it becomes more of doing it to do it than any true intimacy.
**
I can hear the screams already that the church doesn’t tell us when we can have sex. Yes, it does, when you are restricted to NFP and church teachings.

…

You’re right; it may well be the ultimate expression. And when that ultimate expression is restricted severely, it has a severely negative impact. On some more than others, but just because the church and others here say it shouldn’t happen, or doesn’t happen to them, does not mean that it is not very, very real.

Not to harp on you in the least - but your post SCREAMS of marital issues OUTSIDE of NFP.
Yes, NFP requires some abstinence.
No, NFP does NOT mean you can’t flirt and hug and snuggle and get excited about each other. No matter what time of month it is (“safe” or “unsafe”) we’re ALWAYS flirting - slapping butts, making dirty jokes, teasing, etc… NON-STOP! Having to abstain is NOT an excuse to not do those things. You’re *MAKING *it an excuse. That’s your choice - the church isn’t stopping you.

Men need sex for love; woman need love for sex.

Give… and you shall receive.