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Bill_J

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Has anyone considered that all churches were brought about by man. Notice the discussions about which church is the true church will we reconcile with other churches. Has anyone considered that we are created in God’s own image that we are truly one with God that heaven is in all of us and we have no need for any churches.Has anyone considered that if we stop listening to all of the so called experts stop repeating a prayer a thousand times and listen to God who is in all of us we will learn the truth and not the truth that leaders want us to believe to maintain their power over us. My prayer is that we all come to know the true free will God has given us not the free will taught by people who only wish for power.

God bless you all.
 
Bill_J said:
Has anyone considered that all churches were brought about by man. Notice the discussions about which church is the true church will we reconcile with other churches. Has anyone considered that we are created in God’s own image that we are truly one with God that heaven is in all of us and we have no need for any churches.Has anyone considered that if we stop listening to all of the so called experts stop repeating a prayer a thousand times and listen to God who is in all of us we will learn the truth and not the truth that leaders want us to believe to maintain their power over us. My prayer is that we all come to know the true free will God has given us not the free will taught by people who only wish for power.

God bless you all.
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I see you identify yourself as Catholic but by this post it seems that you are not such.

Where do you come to this conclusion?

Is it not possible that I have found the “God within” in and that He has directed me to His Church?
 
Sounds like a combination of Deism and born-again evangelicalism. IMO, neither really has much place in this particular forum.
 
With respect, not only do I disagree, but the Church disagrees as well. I trust the Church with 2000 years of working with the Holy Spirit to lead to all truth over one fallible individual’s interpretation, no matter how ‘sincere’ it might be.
 
Sounds to me like you are wishing for the power of your own autonomy over yourself.

The Church (no matter how you define it) has ALWAYS been people. Haven’t you heard?
 
Good morning. It is nice to hear all of you are so convicted in your beliefs. I expected no less. As far as me looking for power you are correct. I want the power over my relationship with God and Jesus. I would never allow someone else to tell me about my relationship with my wife. Yes I have been a Catholic my whole life I understand you may not believe that. But I assure you it is true. I have prayed a great deal on this and my eyes have been opened. Remember Jesus was not excepted by the pharisees and saducees ( please forgive my spelling ). Before you go crazy and think I am comparing myself to Jesus I am not. I do believe we are all the same as Jesus but he understood things better than all of us and he was a great preacher. By saying God wants us to do this or not do that does that not sound more of a man then God. Hey I’m not here to change anyones mind about anything I just have a different opinion on things. I seek the truth and one finds it sometimes it goes against everything you have learned. Hmmm. I wonder how the apostles felt when Jesus told them the truth. Take a reall good look at the Vatican and how the church is run. Then take a real good look at Jesus and Peter and Mary and the rest of the apostles WOMEN included and ask yourself is this really what Jesus was all about. Castles and robes and gold. I’m sure I will get blasted over this and maybe even banned from this site. As Jesus was rejected for speaking the truth. I’m sure you will ask the same question that he was asked by what authority do you speak. Take care and peace and love to all of you.
 
Bill_J said:
Has anyone considered that all churches were brought about by man. Notice the discussions about which church is the true church will we reconcile with other churches. Has anyone considered that we are created in God’s own image that we are truly one with God that heaven is in all of us and we have no need for any churches.Has anyone considered that if we stop listening to all of the so called experts stop repeating a prayer a thousand times and listen to God who is in all of us we will learn the truth and not the truth that leaders want us to believe to maintain their power over us. My prayer is that we all come to know the true free will God has given us not the free will taught by people who only wish for power.

God bless you all.
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It sounds like a free for all type of religion. God is what we make him to be. We don’t need a church to guide us. If we think abortion is good then God must too. You have basically switched the order so that God is now made in the image of man rather than man being made in the image of God.
 
Bill_J said:
Has anyone considered that all churches were brought about by man. Notice the discussions about which church is the true church will we reconcile with other churches. Has anyone considered that we are created in God’s own image that we are truly one with God that heaven is in all of us and we have no need for any churches.Has anyone considered that if we stop listening to all of the so called experts stop repeating a prayer a thousand times and listen to God who is in all of us we will learn the truth and not the truth that leaders want us to believe to maintain their power over us. My prayer is that we all come to know the true free will God has given us not the free will taught by people who only wish for power.

God bless you all.
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Hmm…a guy in the 7th century thought something like that.
 
\I would never allow someone else to tell me about my relationship with my wife.\

**Not even your wife?

I think your wife justly has quite a bit to say about your relationship with her, and what she likes, and what she expects from you.

Otherwise, this is not a realtionship, but domination over your wife.

Well, guess what? Do you think God and Jesus require any less from you than your wife does?**
 
oh yeah, the castles and gold and robes and the “wealth” of the Vatican.

So how come Pope John Paul II didn’t have **anything to leave in his will? **

Hey, where were all those castles and gold and robes then? Could it possibly be that things like art treasures and churches which were freely given by people out of love for GOD and TO God are held in trust for **all people? **That the ‘wealth’ of the Church is not for individual priests to ‘enjoy’ for themselves or to give away but for them to be stewards for?

So, when President Obama leaves the White House I’ll bet he makes a fortune selling off all the furniture etc from the White House. What? He can’t? Even though he **uses it during his tenure as President, he doesn’t actually OWN it? Hush ma mouf.

Imagine that. The concept of an office or a position in which the person who holds the office at a given time doesn’t actually ‘own’ things which are used by them but which are available for ‘all’ to see.

Just like people can take ‘tours’ of the White House and see the valuable objects which maintain the History of our nation, the Pope ‘oversees’ many things which likewise maintain the History of the CHURCH.
**
Sorry for all the bold but honestly, some people make me so tired with their carping and wailing and their rehashing of old heresies as though, my god, they had only just now realized and how STUPID were Catholics over the last 2000 years not to see their ‘shining enlightenment.’ Bah pfui.
 
\Take a reall good look at the Vatican and how the church is run. Then take a real good look at Jesus and Peter and Mary and the rest of the apostles WOMEN included and ask yourself is this really what Jesus was all about. Castles and robes and gold.\

**And do I assume you require your wife to join you in the life of a homeless, penniless wanderer?

Or are you actually living that lifestyle?

And I’m supposed to believe you have NOTHING of gold or silver yourself? Or are you saying that you deny your wife jewelry?

Vestments are basically uniforms, and uniforms are always more expensive than ordinary clothes.

I have 2 cassocks–one black, one white for Az summers–and they have lasted me over 5 years.

That was my last wardrobe purchase.

How often do YOU buy new clothes? **
 
So many getting so angry. First I would like to clarify that when I said no one will tell me about my relationship with my wife. I meant that it is between her and I as is my relationship with God. Maybe I wrote it wrong or you read it the way you wanted to. A way to find fault in what I say.

Why would people donate riches to the church? You say in honour of God or whatever. Since when did God need any of these things the only way people would do this is if they were told to do so. If the church would preach the truth about God people would know that God has no use for castles and riches but men love to live in them to show the power they hold. Yes the president does not take the furniture with him but he lives there to show the power he holds. Can he not govern from a normal house and work in a normal office? sure he can but it would not show off the power he holds. The world is full of people who believe bigger is better and the bigger house I’m in the more power I have. Do you really believe Jesus or Peter would be living in the Vatican today if so you really know nothing of his teachings. He could have demanded people pay him for his sermons and lived very comfortably. John the baptist as well. I’m sorry if I offend you or hurt your feelings toward your church. I just believe it is time for truth to be told. Do you know that priest will be taught about the Bible but it is never told to us the same way. Such as, did you ever hear that Jesus when he fed the thousands he opened their hearts so they would share the hidden food the people carried with them. It was something the people of the day did and they would kill to keep that food concealed. But that is never told to us. WHY? Please feel free to ask any priest if this is so. If he honest he will tell you. There is so much more so much. Because I am not a priest or a Bishop or a preacher of any kind there is know way God could speak to me. Unless of course the church said it was so. Again WHY? Answer me this why is a person a saint if the church says so. Why can’t my Mother be a Saint she was very holy person but the Pope never heard of her so she is not as important as someone who is in the light all the time. I say to you every person in the eyes of our creator is a saint. Looking forward to hear from you I just hope you can do it with love as I have tried to do if not I am sorry. God bless.
 
To bpbasllphx: I’m so sorry but what a ridiculous comment. I am sure you know what I meant but I made you angry so you must resort to such comments they offer nothing to the discussion. Please I’m sure you are very intelligent person please don’t get angry. Speak from your heart I know you love God as I do. I just hope people will truly experience God for all He /She is. Remember when you could curl up with Mum or Dad or like when my Grandson curls up with me. No rules no conditions on how I love him or he loves me. No conditions on how you were loved or you loved your parents. That is what God is all about. Not if you do this or don’t do that. I understand not everyone has that love from their parents but I promise you everyone has that LOVE from God.Take care.
 
Bill_J said:
Why would people donate riches to the church? You say in honour of God or whatever. Since when did God need any of these things the only way people would do this is if they were told to do so.
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Have a look in Exodus Chapter 25 and afterwards - WHO is it who told Moses to gather together huge quantities of gold, silver, precious spices and other rich materials for use in the building of the Dwelling Tent and the Ark of the Covenant - and for the rituals which were to take place there? No man told Moses to do this, but God Himself.

Take a look in Leviticus - WHO is it who decreed that the animals used in Temple sacrifice had to be the best of their kind - with no blemishes of any kind? WHO decreed likewise that no man who a deformity of his person could serve as a priest (ie that the MEN who served Him also had to be the best of their kind)? Again, no man but God.

Take a look in the New Testament - WHO rebuked Judas for complaining, as you are doing, when precious ointment was ‘wasted’ by being poured on Jesus’ feet? No mere man, but Jesus Himself - God Himself - said that the woman who poured expensive ointment on Him was doing a good thing and honouring Him.

God doesn’t just ask, but demands (as He has every right to do, being God) that we offer of our best to Him.

You’re right about one thing, He probably doesn’t need it. Neither, probably, does He need us to gather on Sundays and worship Him, after all He has angels to offer constant worship to Him. Yet He still commands us to do so.

He institutes these commands for OUR sake, because when we do these things they remind us to give Him first place in our hearts and lives. They remind us that all our gold and silver, not to mention our bodily health, our time, our life itself, all come as precious gifts from Him. It teaches us not to become too proud of our material possessions or so attached to them that we are unable to part with them.
 
May I ask you a question Bill?

When the “God within” leads two people to contradictory ideas how is that reconciled?
 
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