Church

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Bill,

Why do you assume anyone here is angry with you? Most of us feel bad for you. Personally, I wish you nothing but the best… I see that you want to pick a fight with us to make yourself feel better… unfortunately we all see that the god that you think exists only exists in your mind, just like you assume incorrectly that any of us are angry with you, you assume god is whatever you think god is.

If you have real question about why we believe the things we do in the way we do, go ahead and feel free to ask, otherwise do something else you find fun…

Peace.
 
I assume people are angry with me because I disagree with them.
Why do you feel bad for me is it because I do not agree with what you have been taught to believe.

If we all believe in God is it not healthy to have a discussion or is it healthy to only have one point of view.

You assume I come on here to make fun of you ar to pick a fight. ( Go some where else to have my fun ) You say you wish nothing but the best for me yet you feel bad for me and want me to go away. I find that very interesting. If you were to read any of my post and read them with an open mind you would see I say nothing without love in my heart for all of you. I will say this my friend I am so glad that it is against the law to crucify someone today or I’m sure you would be hunting me down. I’m sorry if I sound angry or upset in anyway but to be brushed aside like I mean nothing and my thoughts are worthless to you is hurtful. But I forgive and move on! Thanks for at least talking for a little bit anyway.
 
And this thread is continuing in the EC forum because?🤷
Oh well
🍿

Seriously though, I pray the Holy Spirit will all to the fullness of Truth.
 
Bill_J said:
I assume people are angry with me because I disagree with them.
Why do you feel bad for me is it because I do not agree with what you have been taught to believe.
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So in your mind people can not disagree with out getting angry? Sad.

We feel bad for you because you have deluded yourself to believe that you are the authority in what God is.

I also feel bad for you as you seem to think what you believe is compatible with the Catholic Faith as you continue to list your religion as Catholic even though you do not hold any Catholic beliefs.

I also feel bad for you as you have yet to answer any questions that we have asked you. You have yet to give a satisfactory answer to the question of what the Truth is when two people come to different conclusions as lead by the “god within”. For example, one person is lead by the “god within” to see that sexual intercourse is good any time he feels like it while another is lead by the “god within” to see that sexual intercourse is only good inside the bounds of a marriage. Which is the Truth? Both can not be. There are many, many examples of this and you seem to blow this off as not being important which tells me that ultimate Truth does not matter to you or your “god within”.

I also feel bad for you as you seem to think that we believe “as we are taught to believe” is a bad thing. You seem to think that becuase of this we can not believe what is True.

So using your logic, you were taught to believe that 2+2=4 so since you were taught this it must not be true as you are only believing what you were taught.
If we all believe in God is it not healthy to have a discussion or is it healthy to only have one point of view.
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It is helathy to ahve a discussion but a discussion is a two way street that both sides must participate in, you seem to not want to participate by saying we only believe what we believe because we were taught it. You try to dismiss us with a wave of your hand and assume that your way is superior.
You assume I come on here to make fun of you ar to pick a fight. ( Go some where else to have my fun ) You say you wish nothing but the best for me yet you feel bad for me and want me to go away. I find that very interesting. If you were to read any of my post and read them with an open mind you would see I say nothing without love in my heart for all of you. I will say this my friend I am so glad that it is against the law to crucify someone today or I’m sure you would be hunting me down. I’m sorry if I sound angry or upset in anyway but to be brushed aside like I mean nothing and my thoughts are worthless to you is hurtful. But I forgive and move on! Thanks for at least talking for a little bit anyway.
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Accusing us of believing what we believe only because we were taught to believe it is not “loving” in any way, it is dismissisve of us and our beliefs. Also assusming that we can not disagree with you without anger is just plain childish.
Pakesh said:
And this thread is continuing in the EC forum because?🤷
Oh well
🍿

Seriously though, I pray the Holy Spirit will all to the fullness of Truth.
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With out reporting the thread using the report feature or emailing a moderator how are they to know to move the thread?
 
ByzCath said:
With out reporting the thread using the report feature or emailing a moderator how are they to know to move the thread?
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Since I’m fairly new, I wasn’t that familiar with the “policy.” But now, I gladly will!!
 
Wow!! You say your not angry. Then i must say you have no idea what anger is. You sound like you hate me.

I have answered every question you asked. You now call me childish so now you insult me. I’m afaraid I have you many questions and have made many staements that you have not considered. As I said before i will not argue and will not resort to name calling as you have,. " childish" If you so wish to say I am not catholic then so be it. You once said or someone did how dare I compare myself with Jesus. i guess this proves I am no where near Jesus for how he preached to the people of his day with the High Priest challenging him as you challenge me and did not get frustrated. I am human for I am frustrated at the insults you throw at me. But I guess as the High Priest of Jesus’s day feared losing any power to this prophet you fear losing your power if more people see the light and know they can have a relationship with God without the church. Before you get all upset NO I am not a prophet. I am a man who seeks the truth and wishes to get to know the one who created me a whole lot better. To feel is unconditional love. One day maybe you will see that making love is better than making war. Than you will have the answer to your question.

The answer to your question is simple stop seeing one as bad and the other as good. If man thinks sex outside of marriage is bad than they also assume God must think the same thing. So they write it down and everyone is taught to believe that is so. God does not sit on his throne with a sword dipped in blood waiting to cut us off if we mess up.

Do you honestly think I just shoot my mouth off and I don’t pray or talk to God in anyway.
If I have said anything a long the lines of you being childish or any other insult I apologize from the bottom of my heart.

I’ve asked questions such as why is a Priest taught one thing in the seminary and yet will not teach us the same. Go back and read my post you will find it. Also why does the Church think someone like my son who is gay is an abomination. That is what it says in the Bible. But yet me a simple man can love my son so much that I would die for his right to be who he is and who God created. Am I better than God? Or is the part of me that God created in his own image coming to the surface? So please answer my question of why the church will not let my son participate in anything because of who he is a loving caring more christian man than so many I know? So please do not feel bad for me because I try to live my life with love and no judgement of others. Yes that’s right I do not judge you I only pray that you understand that without fear or guilt the church can not exist. Forgive my spelling and grammar…

Peace.
 
I have to say… This is mightily entertaining to read, but so sad at the same time.

Bill – The Church does not hate your son. I have a friend that is gay and Catholic. He lives a celibate life just as the Church teaches and he is very happy.

What is not ok is the heretical statements that you have made throughout this thread. No, our God is not someone we can make up in our mind. Yes, YOU ARE WRONG. Sorry, I had to say it. I have a question… If you so strongly believe this, why are you listing it on a forum? If you are the next Jesus go out and tell people in person! & stop saying everyone is hating on you and we are angry. You cannot read words on the internet and fit them to someone’s emotional state the time they expressed the words.

I pray the Holy Spirit will guide you in your endeavors and you will come to see God’s bride: His Church!

God bless.
 
Bill_J said:
Wow!! You say your not angry. Then i must say you have no idea what anger is. You sound like you hate me.
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Persecution complex?

I have not said anything that shows any anger or hatred.

Just because people disagree with you does not mean they are angry or hate you. I can not understand where this belief would come from other than you are projecting unto us.

If I keep asking the same questions over and over it is because you have failed to answer them in any coherent manner that is an actual answer to the question asked.

You have yet to provide any answer to the authority question and if there is a Truth or not.

You seem to be basing everything off of your feelings and assumptions and not willing to enter into a true dialogue.

Now that this thread has been moved I think I will retire from it.

I will pray for you.
 
Bill_J said:
Has anyone considered that all churches were brought about by man. Notice the discussions about which church is the true church will we reconcile with other churches. Has anyone considered that we are created in God’s own image that we are truly one with God that heaven is in all of us and we have no need for any churches.Has anyone considered that if we stop listening to all of the so called experts stop repeating a prayer a thousand times and listen to God who is in all of us we will learn the truth and not the truth that leaders want us to believe to maintain their power over us. My prayer is that we all come to know the true free will God has given us not the free will taught by people who only wish for power.

God bless you all.
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Thank you, Bill.

Here’s my view: God established His church. And such is one, holy and catholic; it is the communion of saints, the mystical union of all believers, the Body of Christ. As such, it is PEOPLE, specifically Christian PEOPLE - those among us today as well as those now passed; WE are His church. And the gates of hell shall not prevail against Christianity.

Now, as a Christian (and thus one member of His church) I am permitted (even encouraged?) to gather with other Christians in a given place and time. This “gathering” or “associating” is what Protestants call a “congregation.” We have several of these specifically mentioned in the NT (several of the Epistles were written to specific congregations; Revelation was written to seven of them). These are not THE church since none of them is one, holy or catholic - none of them embraces ALL Christians and ONLY Christians, but in them, there are Christians and thus the church is persent there (at least in part). In time, we know that these CAN take on institutional aspects (incorporation, buildings, structures, elected officials, by-laws and constitutions, etc.) but technically, these legalities are not the church, PEOPLE are the church, PEOPLE are the congregation.

While never mentioned in the Bible (we can’t confirm until the 4th century), congregations can also associate together in what technically is called a “denomination.” A denomination is an association of congregations - usually formed for purposes of mutual fellowship, cooperation, edification, strengthening and accountability. These are institutions. Again, while the word “church” is sometimes applied here (I feel this unfortunate, for it leads to confusion), such is not a “church” in any sense. The church is all believers, the communion of saints. A congregation is a gathering of Christians in a given place and time (the church is present in such - at least in small part). A denomination is an association of congregations (it is “church” only indirectly - the Christians in the member congregations are a part of the church).

Thank you.

Pax
  • Josiah
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AmericanJosiah said:
Thank you, Bill.

Here’s my view: God established His church. And such is one, holy and catholic;
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What happen to the “apostolic” mark of the Church?
it is the communion of saints, the mystical union of all believers, the Body of Christ. As such, it is PEOPLE, specifically Christian PEOPLE - those among us today as well as those now passed; WE are His church. And the gates of hell shall not prevail against Christianity.

Now, as a Christian (and thus one member of His church) I am permitted (even encouraged?) to gather with other Christians in a given place and time. This “gathering” or “associating” is what Protestants call a “congregation.” We have several of these specifically mentioned in the NT (several of the Epistles were written to specific congregations; Revelation was written to seven of them). These are not THE church since none of them is one, holy or catholic - none of them embraces ALL Christians and ONLY Christians, but in them, there are Christians and thus the church is persent there (at least in part). In time, we know that these CAN take on institutional aspects (incorporation, buildings, structures, elected officials, by-laws and constitutions, etc.) but technically, these legalities are not the church, PEOPLE are the church, PEOPLE are the congregation.
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What is supposed to happen when this “congregation” departs from the practice of the faith? Are they not to be called to task by the leaders of the Church. Like Paul did in his various letters?
While never mentioned in the Bible (we can’t confirm until the 4th century), congregations can also associate together in what technically is called a “denomination.” A denomination is an association of congregations - usually formed for purposes of mutual fellowship, cooperation, edification, strengthening and accountability. These are institutions. Again, while the word “church” is sometimes applied here (I feel this unfortunate, for it leads to confusion), such is not a “church” in any sense. The church is all believers, the communion of saints. A congregation is a gathering of Christians in a given place and time (the church is present in such - at least in small part). A denomination is an association of congregations (it is “church” only indirectly - the Christians in the member congregations are a part of the church).
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This definition of “denomination” is a secular definition and can not be applied to the Catholic Church with the same meaning.
Thank you.

Pax
  • Josiah.
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Let me just say I have never ever said I was Jesus!

Next you said I am wrong that is your right to say such things. But let me say this look at the church look real hard at it and then read the Bible about the High priest and thier temples and tell me the difference. There is no way that what the Catholic church is today is what Jesus had in mind.

You are right about one thing and that is this is probably no place for a person like myself. For here is a place that people do not have a personal relationship with God but have one with the Church and it’s priests and Pope. Take care.

Please forgive me if I offended any of you. God Bless!!!
 
Bill_J said:
Let me just say I have never ever said I was Jesus!

Next you said I am wrong that is your right to say such things. But let me say this look at the church look real hard at it and then read the Bible about the High priest and thier temples and tell me the difference. There is no way that what the Catholic church is today is what Jesus had in mind.

You are right about one thing and that is this is probably no place for a person like myself. For here is a place that people do not have a personal relationship with God but have one with the Church and it’s priests and Pope. Take care.

Please forgive me if I offended any of you. God Bless!!!
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My friend,
Code: 
 You are so far lost in your own senses and emotions that you have lost sight of what the Church really is.  It is the sacred Body of Jesus Christ Himself!  No less than that.  Please do not kid yourself and compare the Church to the high priests during Jesus’ time.  Yes, there was corruption then and there is corruption now.  Look at any organization.  There is corruption.  

 You want to know what I think?   Too bad, I’m going to tell you anyway:  I think you’re **scared**.  I think you are a cradle Catholic that has come to the realization that you have made mistakes and you do not want to confront them.  You are scared of the wrath of the Almighty, as you should be!  So you have decided to kid yourself saying that just because you might have a relationship with our Savior you are promised eternity.  Well bud, unfortunately it doesn't work out that way. 

 My friend, I have a beautiful relationship with God and our Mother.  Not at all in my own doing, but in His.  I owe everything to Him and I will not deny Jesus what Jesus is due.  Do not think that just because I am a devout Catholic that I worship the Pope or whatever naïve statement you have made.  Do not think that our most holy Pope is not guided by the Holy Spirit and does not share intimacy with God.  

 I pray that you will see the light of truth and repent.  I am done with this thread.  Forgive me my fellow readers for being so direct, but I am sick and tired of seeing the Holy and True Church bashed like it is some insulting cult.
Gob Bless.
 
Bill_J said:
I see that I am under attack. I except this without anger. First let me say I do not wish anyone to live in poverty. I hope everyone lives a very comfortable life. But do we really need to live in castles and homes that cost millions of dollars? You say I am making God into some bigger cuddly version of myself. God created me and calls me one of his children. Let me ask you a question. If I can love my children unconditionally and nothing they do or say will change that love and I demand or as you say command nothing from them then how is it my loving Father who is perfect would do any less for me or you? You speak of God in the old testament did not Jesus come to change that kind of thinking? Also why is it that the bible is full of people being commanded by God but when someone today says God spoke to them they are considered crazy?

I am sorry to the person who asked about the God within. But I am not as educated as you are and I did not understand the question.

I truly mean no harm to any of you. I do not wish to anger any of you I only wish and pray that you see God as not some old man out there waiting for us to mess up and then punish us and say you did it to yourself. But I pray that you see our loving God as part of us.

I believe Jesus was refering to his death and that is how they prepared the body. Judas did not understand this because Jesus was still alive at the time.

The way you speak of God with all the commands and give me this and do this it is like we are His/Her pets not His/Her children.

I’m not sure I understand why people are upset with me? I thought faith was about God not a church? I am only talking about the greatest love man has ever known. I speak of our God that loves us no matter who we are and loves us unconditionaly is that not what Jesus told us?

I once had a discussion with my priest and it was about how people dressed when coming to church. He said they should be dressed in good clothes I said what does it matter they are at church. He said to me if you were to visit the Queen would you not dress in you best clothes. I said maybe but would the Queen go sit on a park bench with a homeless person who hasn’t washed in months and love that person with all of their heart?

As much as you think I’m in here to cause trouble you are wrong I just want people to experience God for themselves not how others want you to experience Him/Her. Yes including what I say. Just open your heart to God’s true love. You’ll be amazed what you find there.God bless you all. Peace!
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Bill, what we see is a person that IF he HAS read the bible does not understand what he read. Lack of maturity is another problem as you make statements before thinking them through.

If you truly are Catholic Bill, you shown profound ignorance of the Church and its teachings. It would help to become humble and then do some research on the teachings of the Catholic Church and its beginnings. When you have done those things then you can come back and carry on an intelligent conversation.
 
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