Churches and COVID

[PetraG]

Do you think it’s time for churches to re-open considering what stage we are at with this pandemic?

There is a local church open for prayer and adoration, but it is a large church, they have cameras, and I’m willing to bet that the pastor has kindly but firmly made it clear that the church is not to be used for congregating, not even for prayer. There are no public Masses offered because it is not possible to decide who would be allowed to attend a gathering of such a small size. If the priest were to allow a different group every day, he would have a lot of contacts, and he needs to avoid that in order to be as safe as possible when he goes out to give Last Rites. I think the few places offering confession insist that there must be a screen and a way to sanitize the penitent’s side between each penitent.

Those are according to the rules in our state: that is, the governor did not forbid “non-essential” encounters but did say that activities not among those deemed essential can only take place if physical distancing can be observed.

 

[1cthlctrth]

We could have drive-in Mass in any parking lot anywhere.
Regular Mass could be held with social distancing. The last Mass I attended (after the Bishop declared that it wasn’t obligatory), the Church attendance was less than 25% of normal, unfortunately.

 

[Maxirad]

Who agrees what with Timothy P. Carney says in this commentary?

 

[PetraG]

Who agrees what with Timothy P. Carney says in this commentary?

There are proposals in there with merit. I don’t know about barring singing altogether, but getting rid of hymns could be a good idea. Taking big gulps of air that was recently breathed by someone else is hazardous. (Consider the 75% transmission rate at the choir practice in Mount Vernon, Washington, with no known symptomatic person present.) Omitting the Sign of Peace and distribution of the Precious Blood happens many places during flu season as a matter of course. Holding Mass outdoors is theoretically safer.

I really don’t see Mass coming back when Holy Communion cannot be distributed to the faithful at all. I suppose it could happen, but I have my doubts.

 

[PetraG]

Our parish is in the second highest affected county in Pennsylvania, so I don’t think we’re ready. It needs to be a case by case basis for each parish with guidance from the Bishop and Governor.

I don’t see how it is possible to open a limited number of Catholic churches in a region without absolutely packing them. So many people would drive for hours and in some cases days to get to Sunday Mass right now.

 

[commenter]

“Church attendance is incredibly beneficial to people, especially in the working class and the middle class”

I’m speechless in terms of that sentence. Is he talking about liturgy or vitamins?

 

[StudentMI]

“Church attendance is incredibly beneficial to people, especially in the working class and the middle class”

I’m speechless in terms of that sentence. Is he talking about liturgy or vitamins?

I’m curious as to why everyone doesn’t benefit from Church attendance.

 

[Dr_Meinheimer]

True, but what I don’t get is why many of the orchestrated distribution of communion with car lines and confessions from a priest to a person in a car, all while wearing masks have been disallowed. If we are to believe cars in a line in a parking lot violates orders restricting groups of ten or more, then we need to shutdown the highways too.

If they actually cared, they stop using illogical restrictions in cases where there is a dire need, and safe workarounds provided.

 

[Uriel1]

I am not an expert nor do I have access to the experts. I trust my Bishop to make that decision.

neither are most bishops experts but there are people in every diocese with training in epidemiology who should be being asked to take part in a consultative process. This is not generally happening

 

[commenter]

If they actually cared, they stop using illogical restrictions in cases where there is a dire need, and safe workarounds provided.

“If they actually cared”?
Do you really think the successors of the Apostles are apathetic on the Mass and sacraments?

A more likely scenario:

• Known, well documented medical risk with close contact;
• High percentage of elderly among clergy and likely Mass goers;
• Desire to avoid setting a precedent for what might be or develop into liturgical abuses

 

[StudentMI]

“ If they actually cared”?
Do you really think the successors of the Apostles are apathetic on the Mass and sacraments?

A more likely scenario:

• Known, well documented medical risk with close contact;
• High percentage of elderly among clergy and likely Mass goers;
• Desire to avoid setting a precedent for what might be or develop into liturgical abuses

Amen to that my friend.

 

[Dr_Meinheimer]

I as speaking more of perceived pressure from public officials, frankly.

As far as your hypotheticals

• Known, well documented medical risk with close contact;
• High percentage of elderly among clergy and likely Mass goers;
• Desire to avoid setting a precedent for what might be or develop into liturgical abuses

• what medical risk is there of confessions from more than six feet away, wearing masks and gloves as the military has taken to?
• so target the elderly with your restrictions, if that is a concern. But they we’d be labeled as ageist most likely.
• suddenly, after doing things unprecedented in the modern world, we are going to say “whoa, let’s not start a trend…” Come on. I cannot think of anything more abusive personally than withholding the Sacraments, but as I am obedient to my Bishop, I follow his lead. Doesn’t mean I have to think some of what they restrict makes any sense.

 

[TheLittleLady]

Precisely why I trust my Bishop. He has access to the very best people in our State Health Department, teaching Hospital, and the Governor’s Office.

 

[TheLittleLady]

what medical risk is there of confessions from more than six feet away, wearing masks and gloves as the military has taken to?

Many Dioceses have this as a policy for Confessions (we don’t require gloves). There are now 15.5 hours for Confessions weekly at my parish since March 16th as opposed to the 2 hours per week in pre-Covid times. Priest is in the confessional 7 days per week instead of one as before.

https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/...hats-suspended--or-not--in-your-diocese-61864

so target the elderly with your restrictions, if that is a concern. But they we’d be labeled as ageist most likely.

Do you want to be the guy who cards people to see if they are young enough to come to Mass?

 

[Uriel1]

the thing is that in Poland and Sweden we can still go to church, and it was never necessary to completely stop access to churches here. That is why the consultations might have been widened

 

[Dr_Meinheimer]

Not per se, but if we expect each other to adhere to local government guidance as far as distancing and staying at home, I’d say we could do the same with seniors or the vulnerable rather than make a blanket exclusion for everyone.

 

[commenter]

the thing is that in Poland and Sweden we can still go to church, and it was never necessary to completely stop access to churches here. That is why the consultations might have been widened

What’s muddying the water in the US is the “consultations” from a network of bishop bashing websites.

 

[Uriel1]

Uriel1:

the thing is that in Poland and Sweden we can still go to church, and it was never necessary to completely stop access to churches here. That is why the consultations might have been widened

What’s muddying the water in the US is the “consultations” from a network of bishop bashing websites.

we dont have bishop bashing websites in the UK. What have they done to muddy the waters?

 

[commenter]

They imply they are Catholic apostolates without directly saying such. For every issue that comes up, they trace a problem, real or imagined, to bishop abuse, neglect or incompetence. If the Catholic laity keep electing pro abortion governors, they attribute the cause to a bishop who didn’t excommunicate.

They have far more articles against the bishops than against Planned Parenthood, secular media, or porn.
They never blame shortcomings of laity only bishops.

Years ago the bishop bashers were mostly on the left. Those are still around but most new ones are ostensibly conservative. But really they are similar in effect. National Catholic Reporter and Church Militant have the same policy towards bishops, with exceptions.

You will find many posting on CAF with arguments taken almost verbatim from these sites.

 

[Uriel1]

Thank you; we don’t have those in UK but we do have some sloppy bishops; in our Westminster Cathedral 17 months ago, the seat of the Cardinal, one of his priests preached that Adam and Eve were not real, and that he had a book, “The Origin of the Species” which explains how humans came to be.
(if anyone challenges this account I am happy to send the admin team written evidence)