Churches rejecting science altogether

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Shredderbeam said:
It seems fairly clear to me that the author intended to say that the differences between other animals and humans is one of degree, not one of kind.
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The human species is beyond degrees. However, I would not reject science just because one segment is somewhat short sighted. Rather, I would like to discuss the subject in depth in Back Fence Forum.
 
kbachler said:
Pretty funny that you attempted to use this to make a point, when in fact many of the things that were quoted as separating us from apes have actually been demonstrated by apes.

Thank you for proving the point that we ARE animals.
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LOL :rotfl:

Dude, it’s clear you have some MAJOR problems. Have you ever visited a zoo? You can see some of the clear differences. One of the most major ones being intelligence. A little human child has more intelligence than a full grown ape of any kind.
 
Shredderbeam said:
It seems fairly clear to me that the author intended to say that the differences between other animals and humans is one of degree, not one of kind.
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He was pointing out the vast differences in intelligence. No chimpanzee, gorilla, etc. will EVER paint a Mona Lisa. Nor will it ever even come close. Human intelligence far exceeds that of the apes that **** in their hands and throw it at you when you walk by their cages at the zoo.
 
kbachler said:
Sense of humor has been observed. See Goodall for example.

Pretty funny that you attempted to use this to make a point, when in fact many of the things that were quoted as separating us from apes have actually been demonstrated by apes.

Thank you for proving the point that we ARE animals.
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What is missing are the methods which train apes.
 
davidv said:
Our ability to choose to do other than our natural urges is unique to humans. An immortal soul is unique to humans. A rational intellect is unique to humans.

And no I don’t have an material proofs of the features as they are immaterial. Likewise you have no evidence that the don’t exist.
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For material proof take a bus ride from New York to the Pacific Ocean.

However, the best material proof is your first comment “Our ability to choose to do other than our natural urges is unique to humans.”

Humans and chimps both follow their natural urge to flee a wild fire. Humans and chimps both have reasonable escape routes based on their natural daily routines. Humans and chimps may save their children based on a natural desire for family survival. But in the midst of a raging fire, chimps don’t turn stop, turn around, and go back to determine where and when to set backfires.
 
grannymh said:
And did he design a building as a memorial to that “name” word?
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Since Chaser is a border collie, he doesn’t use a hammer very well. But he’s done it for more than one new name and on a number of occasions. He is documented as having a vocabulary of over 1,000 words.
 
grannymh said:
For material proof take a bus ride from New York to the Pacific Ocean.

However, the best material proof is your first comment “Our ability to choose to do other than our natural urges is unique to humans.”

Humans and chimps both follow their natural urge to flee a wild fire. Humans and chimps both have reasonable escape routes based on their natural daily routines. Humans and chimps may save their children based on a natural desire for family survival. But in the midst of a raging fire, chimps don’t turn stop, turn around, and go back to determine where and when to set backfires.
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No, but after learning arithmetic, they changed their sharing behavior with other chimps, showing that they had indeed learned to stop, turn around, and calculate something.
 
kbachler said:
Since Chaser is a border collie, he doesn’t use a hammer very well. But he’s done it for more than one new name and on a number of occasions. He is documented as having a vocabulary of over 1,000 words.
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Citation of published research, please.
 
dnar said:
He was pointing out the vast differences in intelligence. No chimpanzee, gorilla, etc. will EVER paint a Mona Lisa. Nor will it ever even come close. Human intelligence far exceeds that of the apes that **** in their hands and throw it at you when you walk by their cages at the zoo.
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And ape, some dog and dolphin intelligence seems to far exceed that of a cow for example. Some border collies and apes have been tested in the range of 3 year olds and higher.
 
grannymh said:
Citation of published research, please.
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LOL, Chaser is all over the press and the Internet. There are numerous videos of Chaser on YouTube. Pick your citation. (Research papers are quoted in some of the articles.)
 
kbachler said:
No, but after learning arithmetic, they changed their sharing behavior with other chimps, showing that they had indeed learned to stop, turn around, and calculate something.
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Please. Let’s have the chimps’ citations. Plus an eye witness report by Chaser.
 
kbachler said:
LOL, Chaser is all over the press and the Internet. There are numerous videos of Chaser on YouTube. Pick your citation. (Research papers are quoted in some of the articles.)
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My cousin Chilly Chimp advises me that you are hesitant about citations otherwise you would not have made the obvious mistake above.
 
davidv said:
You are free to believe this if you so choose. As far as I can tell all these supposed similarities are question begging projections and anthropomorphisms. God said He created us in His image, not in the image of the animals.
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Then actually look at the research. Avoiding anthropomorphism is a big deal. Videos of Chaser are widely available online. Koko the ape caused a sexual harrassment lawsuit against the lab teaching him sign language. Koko, Mike, Washoe and other test apes invented words.

What I find troublesome is this constant judgement of science without actually looking at or knowing the science. Did Jane Goodall expect to go watch apes and see them practicing organized warfare?? NO, and she was quite taken aback by it. But it still happens and is recorded.
 
grannymh said:
My cousin Chilly Chimp advises me that you are not quite sure about citations otherwise you would not have made the obvious mistake above.
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What obvious mistake? I could go look up the citation for you, or you could do it yourself. I’m not sure why you would expect me to do the legwork for you when the information is readily available.
 
grannymh said:
Please. Let’s have the chimps’ citations. Plus an eye witness report by Chaser.
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The chimp studies have been covered in programming on Nova, Discovery and Science channel. It is possible to look up studies online. I don’t walk around with them. For example:
Dr. Sarah T. (Sally) Boysen, a professor of psychology and a member of the
Center for Cognitive Science at The Ohio State University, will speak at 7 p.m. March 13 at Van Meter Auditorium. The free presentation is part of the Boyd-Lubker Visiting Scholar Program.
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Dr. Boysen’s research is on primate cognition. Her research participants – Keeli, Ivy, Kermit, Darrell, Sarah, Abby, Digger, Bobby, Sheba, Emma and Harper – are chimpanzees ranging in age from 3 to 44 years old.
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Dr. Boysen has studied the abilities of her chimpanzee “students” to learn concepts, count and perform arithmetic, use abstract symbols, understand the relationship between scale models and their corresponding life-size referents, as well as studying the possible meanings of natural chimpanzee vocalizations.
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Some of her more recent research has focused on the impact of home rearing on chimpanzee cognition, such as a chimp’s understanding of the mental state of another chimp, studies of the chimpanzee’s response to violations of gravity, and a series of tool-using tasks for exploring the animals’ understanding of causality.
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Dr. Boysen also is an affiliate scientist of the Living Links Center for Human and Primate Evolution and Behavior at Emory University, a member of the American Psychological Society, American Society of Primatologists, Animal Behavior Society,
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Comparative Cognition Society, International Primatological Society, Midwestern Psychological Association, the Psychonomic Society and Sigma Xi.
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She serves as a consulting editor for the Journal of Comparative Psychology and for Animal Learning and Behavior. She has authored or co-authored more than 80 research articles and book chapters.
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In 1996, Dr. Boysen received the Department of Psychology Distinguished Teaching Award and the University Alumni Award for Distinguished teaching from Ohio State. The Columbus (Ohio) YWCA recognized her with the Woman of Achievement Award; she served for a year as an American Psychological Association Distinguished Scientist Lecturer; and Discover Magazine included her among the 50 most important women in science in November 2002.
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As an undergraduate student, she studied biology for two years at Lake Erie College for Women where she received the President’s Citation for Scholarly Distinction. She finished her undergraduate education at Ohio State with a bachelor of science degree in primate ethology. She received her master’s degree in developmental and comparative psychology from the University of Oklahoma, and then did additional graduate work in physical anthropology at Ohio State, and developmental and comparative psychology at Georgia State University. She completed her doctorate in comparative and physiological psychology at Ohio State.
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Or pbs.org/safarchive/4_class/45_pguides/pguide_504/4554_chimp2.html

pbs.org/saf/transcripts/transcript903.htm

Which quickly leads you to an article at questia.com/PM.qst?a=o&d=28163508

The Development of Numerical Competence
Animal and Human Models
Edited by Sarah T. Boysen Ohio State University
and Yerkes Regional Primate Research Center Emory University

E. John Capaldi
Purdue University

LAWRENCE ERLBAUM ASSOCIATES, PUBLISHERS
1993 Hillsdale, New Jersey Hove and London
 
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