Church's view on same sex adoption?

[TheWarriorMonk]

When you realize that the Catholic Church teaches ***authoritatively ***that homosexuality is an intrinsic evil *(And I can’t emphasize that enough!!!) *then you should without a doubt see why the Church cannot and should not advocate placing a child into this situation! They are concerned not only for the child’s physical and mental well being, since it is a well-demonstrated fact that same-sex partner relationships are significantly less stable and more short-lived on the average compared to a marriage of a man and a woman, but they are also concerned for this child’s spiritual well being, namely their soul. How in the world can that be the Christ-like thing to do, placing a child, no an innocent child, into these circumstances?

Peace, Mark

Maybe if the people in this thread would stop talking about what not to do with abandoned children and leaving them in harmful situations, and do something about it, we wouldn’t need to have this discussion in the first place.

But speaking in platitudes and turning our heads, rather than taking action, is always the easier path.

 

[CopticChristian]

You are affirming that experience is also required.

So, what is your solution to dealing with abandoned children? Or will you continue to talk about what should not be done with them, and whatever happens to them is their problem?

In other words, the matter of who adopts abandoned children is not addressed in the Catechism. It is addressed elsewhere.

Reading music allows you to read music. No place do you find in reading music how to write a concerto. You can find places to go and find out how John Paul Jones played the base written down and then you can improvise and do it your way.

As a martial artist you know that kicking, blocking, punching and other things are techniques that when combined can be Kata, form, sets or whatever you want to cal them and for the most part none of that is written down. There are some schools that do provide manuals but in my experience that was not the case.

Forming your conscience is not cookbook, this is about adoption, this is about how you do any particular thing…here is one of the few passages in the Catechism on adoption of children

2379 The Gospel shows that physical sterility is not an absolute evil. Spouses who still suffer from infertility after exhausting legitimate medical procedures should unite themselves with the Lord’s Cross, the source of all spiritual fecundity. They can give expression to their generosity by adopting abandoned children or performing demanding services for others.

However, if you study the Catechism you will discover that you are adopted by God, and if the Catehcism teaches and you believe that Jesus is God and we model Jesus then as the Catechism teaches…

We believe…profess our Faith
Live the Sacramental Life
Model Christ, live the moral life in action, desire, deed
Pray…

Then as a child of God, adopted by God…we model Christ/God…then for the children that are abandoned we do not give them to those that are not going to model Christ living continually in sins against Chastity…

Study the Catechism and keep forming your conscience.

 

[CopticChristian]

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Maybe if the people in this thread would stop talking about what not to do with abandoned children and leaving them in harmful situations, and do something about it, we wouldn’t need to have this discussion in the first place.

But speaking in platitudes and turning our heads, rather than taking action, is always the easier path

It appears that you see this as a problem. If so what is it you see as the problem?

What is it about this problem that it means so much to you? Explain this steadfastness in this belief.

What is it this issue of abandoned children says about you?

 

[TheWarriorMonk]

It appears that you see this as a problem. If so what is it you see as the problem?

What is it about this problem that it means so much to you? Explain this steadfastness in this belief.

I’ve noted my reasons ad naseum. Much of deals with with my family members direct involvement with such children…everything from my brother dating someone that lived in an orphanage most of her life (that was interesting to say the least) to Satanist children in foster homes that had to be removed due to supernatural events.

What is it this issue of abandoned children says about you?

It’s actually not what it says about me, it’s what is says about others and the perception of their own belief systems. In this particular case, if one is going to take a position on a matter that may not be helpful to abandoned children (often minority, disabled, etc.), they had better have an alternative solution. If not, their beliefs and their religion will be utterly dismissed, at that which they work against will become the norm.

 

[CopticChristian]

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I’ve noted my reasons ad naseum. Much of deals with with my family members direct involvement with such children…everything from my brother dating someone that lived in an orphanage most of her life (that was interesting to say the least) to Satanist children in foster homes that had to be removed due to supernatural events.

How do you believe that these personal experiences aid your formation of conscience when it comes to Church teaching?

It’s actually not what it says about me, it’s what is says about others and the perception of their own belief systems. In this particular case, if one is going to take a position on a matter that may not be helpful to abandoned children (often minority, disabled, etc.), they had better have an alternative solution. If not, their beliefs and their religion will be utterly dismissed, at that which they work against will become the norm

I can understand how you may see this…did you not notice that when you came to the CAF that this is where the Faith is explained and defended?

Do you want other than explanation and defense of the Faith on a Catholic apologetic website?

 

[Mark121359]

Maybe if the people in this thread would stop talking about what not to do with abandoned children and leaving them in harmful situations, and do something about it, we wouldn’t need to have this discussion in the first place.

But speaking in platitudes and turning our heads, rather than taking action, is always the easier path.

I don’t know what else to say to you TheWarriorMonk. You seem to have all the answers! Not the correct answers, just answers. Me, I’ll stick with my tried and true Catholic Church thank you very much! If in your world placing a child into a sinful situation is the Christ-like thing to do…then God help us! God/Sin is;…not possible…ever! The Church wouldn’t consider placing a child in a heterosexual relationship that was sinful and dysfunctional just because it’s as you seem to be saying “better than nothing.”

Peace, Mark

 

[TheWarriorMonk]

If in your world placing a child into a sinful situation is the Christ-like thing to do…then God help us!

Whether you want to believe it or not, that situation exists right now, and that has nothing to do with people’s sexual preferences. We wouldn’t even have to address gay adoptions if these children had homes in the first place.

Just yesterday one of my wife’s friends was over talking about her autistic son. Many have advised her to put him in a home. She won’t do it, because of a situation involving a close family member who was raped the first day she was placed in such a situation.

 

[TheWarriorMonk]

I can understand how you may see this…did you not notice that when you came to the CAF that this is where the Faith is explained and defended?

Do you want other than explanation and defense of the Faith on a Catholic apologetic website?

An explanation of how to deal the present situation of abandoned children will suffice. I have yet to see an explanation of how their present situation is acceptable, and how it can be defended.

If you haven’t noticed, most people are arguing of the perspective of what you cannot do and don’t address the children. I’m addressing the the children first and foremost, because this is no faith or moral society without that.

 

[TheWarriorMonk]

If in your world placing a child into a sinful situation is the Christ-like thing to do…then God help us!

I assume you meant to say children already in a hopeless situation. Do you desire to keep them in such a situation? If not, what is your solution to handling the vast number of abandoned children, often minorities and the disabled? Or do you not care?

 

[CopticChristian]

An explanation of how to deal the present situation of abandoned children will suffice. I have yet to see an explanation of how their present situation is acceptable, and how it can be defended.

If you haven’t noticed, most people are arguing of the perspective of what you cannot do and don’t address the children. I’m addressing the the children first and foremost, because this is no faith or moral society without that.

What you are doing is continuing your agenda about the children that is relevant to you in the context of what you have seen. Start a thread…

What do we do about abandoned children…

This thread is about allowing same sex adoption and not all the abandoned children…

There are two problems and you are mixing them…

Do you believe that Satanism is evil and children should not be with these people?

Do you believe that foster parents that are incestuous are parenting, not in the best interest of the child?

 

[Mark121359]

I assume you meant to say children already in a hopeless situation. Do you desire to keep them in such a situation? If not, what is your solution to handling the vast number of abandoned children, often minorities and the disabled? Or do you not care?

Where is this hopeless situation you keep talking about? You want to see a hopelessly sad situation? Try looking at Catholic Charities for following Church teachings;

Catholic Charities has been forced out of the adoption business in Massachusetts, Illinois and Washington, D.C., because it would only place children in homes with a mother and a father. Perhaps the most notorious example of a state forcing its view on a church agency comes from Massachusetts, where Boston Catholic Charities ran an adoption agency that had been placing children with families for over 100 years. In 2006, Archbishop Sean P. O’Malley announced that*** the agency would abandon its founding mission rather than submit to a state law requiring it to place children with homosexual couples.*** ***(A Vatican document from 2003 described gay adoptions as ''gravely immoral.") ***

You see, this is what will befall our great Church when this sort of stuff is insisted on. Where does it end? The Church being forced to perform gay marriages? Well let me tell you a little secret…it’s already happening;

The Danish government recently determined that “gay marriage” includes a right to get married in any church in the country, even if that church objects to such unions. Churches throughout the country will now literally be forced to conduct marriages they believe to be invalid and sinful. [catholicnewsagency.com/blog/why-the-catholic-church-and-gay-marriage-cannot-coexist/ telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/denmark/9317447/Gay-Danish-couples-win-right-to-marry-in-church.html](http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/blog/why-the-catholic-church-and-gay-marriage-cannot-coexist/)

And if you think that can’t happen here in the U.S. then you’re gravely mistaken! That’s the fatal mistake of doubting our Church on these issues…but sadly it appears to be falling, for some anyways, on deaf ears. Here’s one more gem of persecution to mull over;

A potentially greater threat is that government agencies will try to change church teachings. It is already happening in other nations. The Catholic Church, for instance, teaches that homosexual inclination is a “tendency toward an intrinsic moral evil; and thus the inclination itself must be seen as an objective disorder.” Bishop Fred Henry of Calgary, Canada, was investigated by the Alberta Human Rights Commission for doing little more than writing about this teaching in a newspaper column. Åke Green, pastor of a Pentacostalist church in Sweden, was tried, convicted, and sentenced to a month in prison for a sermon that insulted homosexuals.

Peace, Mark

 

[TheWarriorMonk]

What you are doing is continuing your agenda about the children that is relevant to you in the context of what you have seen. Start a thread…

Fine. I understand that you are only interested in a single issue, and the abandoned children are not relevant. I understand this a Catholic forum, but also understand that your argument will go nowhere outside of this forum. The Truth without application falls on deaf ears.

 

[TheWarriorMonk]

Where is this hopeless situation you keep talking about?

If you need to ask, you simply have no idea.

 

[Mark121359]

If you need to ask, you simply have no idea.

And what about the sad truth of persecution against Catholic organizations for not getting with the program on things such as gay adoption, SSM and the like? Just peachy in your mind to you isn’t it? Like you say…"you simply have no idea"

 

[TheWarriorMonk]

And what about the sad truth of persecution against Catholic organizations for not getting with the program on things such as gay adoption, SSM and the like? Just peachy in your mind to you isn’t it? Like you say…"you simply have no idea"

It might be a good idea for you to visit an orphanage, speak to foster parents that have children coming and going, hold a malnourished and diseased child in your hands, etc. rather than rolling your eyes about the issue. People can always make fun of an issue provided it doesn’t affect them.

 

[Mark121359]

It might be a good idea for you to visit an orphanage, speak to foster parents that have children coming and going, hold a malnourished and diseased child in your hands, etc. rather than rolling your eyes about the issue. People can always make fun of an issue provided it doesn’t affect them.

The eye rolling was directed at you.

 

[CopticChristian]

It might be a good idea for you to visit an orphanage, speak to foster parents that have children coming and going, hold a malnourished and diseased child in your hands, etc. rather than rolling your eyes about the issue. People can always make fun of an issue provided it doesn’t affect them.

I have been to many orphanages in Mexico, the Phillipines, Honduras, Colombia and elsewhere. I have held sick, dying and seen children die all over the world.

What you are doing is continuing your agenda about the children that is relevant to you in the context of what you have seen. Start a thread…

What do we do about abandoned children…

This thread is about allowing same sex adoption and not all the abandoned children…

There are two problems and you are mixing them…

Do you believe that Satanism is evil and children should not be with these people?

Do you believe that foster parents that are incestuous are parenting, not in the best interest of the child?

will you answer the questions posed about satanism and incest.

 

[TheWarriorMonk]

I have been to many orphanages in Mexico, the Phillipines, Honduras, Colombia and elsewhere. I have held sick, dying and seen children die all over the world.

Then you understand they should not be in that situation. And your solution is?

 

[CopticChristian]

Then you understand they should not be in that situation. And your solution is?

Let us put the solution on hold for a moment and tell me your understanding of this…

Matthew

1He said to His disciples, "It is inevitable that stumbling blocks come, but woe to him through whom they come! 2**“It would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck and he were thrown into the sea, than that he would cause one of these little ones to stumble. **3"Be on your guard! If your brother sins, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him. 4"And if he sins against you seven times a day, and returns to you seven times, saying, ‘I repent,’ forgive him.”

Luke

1At that time the disciples came to Jesus and said, “Who then is greatest in the kingdom of heaven?” 2And He called a child to Himself and set him before them, 3and said, "Truly I say to you, unless you are converted and become like children, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven. 4"Whoever then humbles himself as this child, he is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. 5"And whoever receives one such child in My name receives Me; **6but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him to have a heavy millstone hung around his neck, and to be drowned in the depth of the sea. **

Mark

38John said to Him, “Teacher, we saw someone casting out demons in Your name, and we tried to prevent him because he was not following us.” 39But Jesus said, "Do not hinder him, for there is no one who will perform a miracle in My name, and be able soon afterward to speak evil of Me. 40"For he who is not against us is for us. 41"For whoever gives you a cup of water to drink because of your name as [followers] of Christ, truly I say to you, he will not lose his reward.

**42"Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe to stumble, it would be better for him if, with a heavy millstone hung around his neck, he had been cast into the sea. **

Let us start with the child, since you have referred to this…tell me what it is you believe these passages to mean as it regards children?

 

[livingwordunity]

Coptic,

And it’s interesting to note that having the heavy millstone hung around the neck and thrown to the bottom of the sea is better than what would happen to someone who causes a child to sin (if they don’t repent before they die). Jesus is saying that the punishment is worse than anything anyone can imagine.